Womack17 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 497 posts, RR: 5 Posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6330 times:
I don't know if anyone has posted this but an FYI just in case no one else has posted a reminder
TONIGHT ON NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC CHANNEL (Channel 276 on DirecTV)
Seconds From Disaster - Tonight is the premiere of the episode exploring the Pan Am/KLM runway collision on Tenerife. Airs at 2100 hours (ET/PT)
I have been waiting to see this specific episode for quite a while. Incidentally for those who don't know about this program it re-examines disasters throughout history. The premiere episode was on the Concorde crash. Since then they have examined the Oklahoma City bombing and the attack on the Pentagon.
Oh how I miss Midway Airlines. A class act right to then end.
UPS707 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5931 times:
Thanks for the heads up! I managed to watch it and it was really interesting. I was 7 at the time, so obviously never got into the details so it was interesting to pick them up now. Looks like the Concorde crash is tomorrow at 8pm ET/PT followed by a documentary on building Kansai airport.
Spacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5778 times:
I didn't like some of the conclusions they made. They had the Belgian investigator there so maybe they were trying to be "politically correct" in not laying the blame squarely on the KLM pilot, which is where it lays in the official accident report. The fact is the accident wouldn't have happened if the KLM pilot hadn't rushed to take off without clearance. None of the other factors involved would have mattered if not for that (simply missing a turnoff happens thousands of times per day, yet the fact that the Pan Am 747 did this is given a lot of gravitas in this show as being contributory toward the accident).
I do generally like this show, though. The one they did on the German ICE train wreck was really good. This one was a bit less interesting because they had to rely so heavily on the CVR transcripts, which are kind of hard to make interesting on TV. It's more interesting when there's a chain of technological or mechanical events that they can recreate on the show.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
Geoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5717 times:
FWIW, this series is currently showing on the UK version of National Geographic as well.
I'm not overly impressed with it due to the large number of segments which are repeated. I got bored of the wheel strip coming through the floor (German ICE train) so I started to count it. I got to 25 repeats before I got bored even counting it! I'd guess that clip was shown 40-45 times during the hour-long episode.
JCS From Netherlands, joined Jun 2004, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5655 times:
I am no impressed at all by these series. I forgot either my example was on Discovery or National Geographic, but it was about high-speed trains. This serie was extremely bad. They forgot the French train in 1956 which got a speed of about 330 km/h. They showed old types German ICE trains. They didn't mention at all TGV speedrecords of 530 km/h. They showed old Maglevs in Japan instead of Transrapid test-facilities in Germany and the first Transrapid line in China.
@ Spacecadet: don't take those 'investigations' too serious!
But putting all the blame on this KLM captain is stupid. This was a terrible accident with more problems then only that captain. He didn't want this either, did he? I think this would be another fast, very cheap conclusion, because you need to consider more before playing judge. Perhaps you and I know all about this case, but other people reading this may not know about other problems on Tenerife which may are very stupid mistakes.
UPS707 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5356 times:
Quote from Spacecadet:
None of the other factors involved would have mattered if not for that (simply missing a turnoff happens thousands of times per day, yet the fact that the Pan Am 747 did this is given a lot of gravitas in this show as being contributory toward the accident).
They did however mention that the turn that ATC gave him (tight 125degree) would have been almost impossible to make and would have left PanAm out on the runway as the KLM came through anyway. They did place alot of the blame on the KLM Captain, but also mentioned other factors that contributed to the crash including weather, the missed turn, the missed communications due to PanAm and ATC stepping on each other, and even the extra weight from the fuel the KLM had just loaded up making it harder to climb.
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4489 posts, RR: 33
Reply 12, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5222 times:
OK, "even while" I'm dutch I truly believe mistakes like the missed turn and wry coincidences take place in aviation every day, but the KLM captain made the one and only fatal mistake to take off without being sure the runway is safe, even ignoring signals it might not be safe. Of course he didn't intend to crash and sadly he also paid with his life but his arrogance and lack of professionalism that day prevented a good job.
Anyway, don't want to repeat lots of earlier threads on Tenerife.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
Capicuuu From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2001, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5193 times:
NIK, what do you have? (Time Warner, Cablevision, etc) I know that for me it was in the 60's and I have Time Warner Digital cable.
As for the show, it was quite interesting. I had read about this accident before and it was interesting to see how the show would portray all the information available in a 1 hr segment. One aspect that caught my attention was how the dutch investigator claimed that the CVR evidence "cleared" the KLM Captain. It may have helped understand the reasoning for the takeoff but it far from cleared him of any responsibility.
Aviateur From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1367 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (11 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3361 times:
A member writes:
"I didn't like some of the conclusions they made......they were trying to be politically correct in not laying the blame squarely on the KLM pilot.....The fact is the accident wouldn't have happened if the KLM pilot hadn't rushed to take off without clearance."
True, but air disasters are commonly the result of a chain of failures, not merely one. You can do this, "if only [insert specific factor here], it never would have happened" business all day. Technological failures and human factors both played a part, and both were, in the end, "critical." The heterodyne factor -- i.e. a blocked radio transmission -- being the main technological culprit. (I appeared in the show as a talking head on this subject.)
Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author