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WN At ATL.....dont Have The Balls  
User currently offlineDeltadude From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 133 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8380 times:

Why isn't WN in ATL? Doesn't want to start a war with AirTran? Seen as stronghold for DL? What's the deal? Independence Air flys in....why no WN? JetBlue tried and failed, why hasn't WN tried? Your thoughts.....

I figure the Independence Air route is to keep the ACA pilots employed......

63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8325 times:

Well they surely dont have the balls to go to MSP!!!! MUHAHAHAHAHHA

As for I-Air I was there for one of their flights total pax-1

However a couple of the others had around 15 pax or so the whole time i was in ATL.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8311 times:

"JetBlue tried and failed, why hasn't WN tried?"

I really don't know, but I'm guessing they are remembering the old saying, "People learn from their mistakes. Smart people learn from other people's mistakes."??



CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineDeltadude From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8307 times:

I rode I-Air to IAD a couple weeks ago and there were 30 people on both flights combined! Nice fares though.

User currently offlineDB777 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 885 posts, RR: 44
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8310 times:
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WN has historically avoided airports with big delays because it fouls up their system to have late running aircraft like so many other carriers. They dropped SFO a year or so ago because of the delay problem. That's one reason. Rates and charges at ATL may be another reason though I don't know what ATL's are.


Photographing aircraft since the Earth was flat and on Airliners.net since #338
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8286 times:

But yet thats why they are continuing to build PHL, one of the worst airports in the country for delays.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3814 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8185 times:

"Well they surely dont have the balls to go to MSP!!!! MUHAHAHAHAHHA"

haha, i dont think they have em at all. and ive got my reasons  Big grin


User currently offlineBarney Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 948 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8038 times:

Balls? No problem. Good business desicion when ther is so much more low hanging fruit to be picked? Now that's just sound managment.


...from the Banana Republic....
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6752 posts, RR: 32
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8013 times:

Barney Captain said it best -- the best strategy isn't to try to take on network carriers at their fortress hubs. You end up getting into fare wars and you still lose money, even if the network carrier loses more dumping capacity on the route. Southwest's management is smart -- they go after high-priced markets where a high-cost incumbent carrier is less able to compete. That's why they went into BWI and PHL, and why most of the cities on the East Coast they entered had been strongholds for US Airways.

Speaking historically, Delta was the most profitable (and financially conservative, along with lowest-cost) of the network majors in the 1990's, and thus the most able to sustain a lengthy fare war with Southwest in a fortress hub. This was true through 9/11/01. And over the last three years, Southwest has added only one city aside from the already-planned ORF in 2001. In a nutshell, there are better ways to make a profit than getting into a fight with DL at ATL.


User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3527 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7835 times:

Could Southwest go into Atlanta and survive? Yes, but the cost would be tremendous. Expect DL Fares to be undercut across the board, and you would see DL cutting their fares to match. how long could they hold out? probably not very long, but long enough that it would eat a considerable chunk out of our cash reserves, not to mention fouling up the entire system with delayed planes from dirty tricks and over all overcrowdedness of the atlanta hub.


Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineGr8SlvrFlt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1604 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7809 times:

Southwest tried to enter the Atlanta market back in the 90s but insisted they be able to use a general aviation field just west of the city. The NIMBYs won out and Southwest moved on.

User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7762 times:

They'll be in ATL when the new runway is finished and they purchase AirTran...

User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7519 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7740 times:

They'll be in ATL when the new runway is finished and they purchase AirTran...

You forgot to add "when DL prepares to file for Chapter 7 liquidation".



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7652 times:

DB777:

WN has historically avoided airports with big delays because it fouls up their system to have late running aircraft like so many other carriers

True, especially considering that WN wouldn't know what "on time" meant if smacked them right in the face. I doubt they'd want to make matters worse.

This topic has come up before and I have always wagered that it would be extremely disadventageous for WN to try a move into ATL...DL and FL would take on the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" attitude and jointly move to stifle WN's competition, making it more costly for WN than its worth.

They'll be in ATL when the new runway is finished and they purchase AirTran...

You forgot to add "when DL prepares to file for Chapter 7 liquidation".


...thus proving that not all a.net users reside in reality  Smile



"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7519 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7572 times:

From Replies #11 & 12
They'll be in ATL when the new runway is finished and they purchase AirTran...

You forgot to add "when DL prepares to file for Chapter 7 liquidation".


From Reply #13

...thus proving that not all a.net users reside in reality

ATLhomeCMH,

While I can't speak for Kohflot, the intent of my follow-up reply (#12) to his (#11) was sarcasm.  Wink/being sarcastic

I'm assuming that you were aware of that.

DL and FL would take on the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" attitude and jointly move to stifle WN's competition

Good point. As it's been stated earlier and on previous threads regarding WN that they usually do not go into airports that are hubs for a legacy carriers. However, there have been exceptions! LAX, STL, DTW, IAH, SLC, CLE, and the recently-added PHL are examples of that; there are probably others. Although, what separates PHL from the others is the fact that should US go away this Feb. (as many have predicted); PHL will no longer be a hub for any carrier, and hence, will become wide open for WN to make it into a sizeable focus city.

Despite DL being in Chapter 11, the tradeoff for scrapping its DFW hub (I didn't even know they had one there) was to focus more on fortifying its remaining 3 hubs (ATL, CVG, & SLC). So I don't think WN will consider ATL at the present time.

Given the current situation (as we should all know by now that it's subject to change), there's a better chance that WN would choose DFW or even BOS before it considers ATL. This is not saying that WN would choose any of those cities, I'm just mentioning the probabilities from highest to lowest.




"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7509 times:

Despite DL being in Chapter 11

...since when?  Laugh out loud


User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7431 times:

While I can't speak for Kohflot, the intent of my follow-up reply (#12) to his (#11) was sarcasm.

I'm assuming that you were aware of that.


Yes, of course, just thought I'd add to it.  Smile

LAX, STL, DTW, IAH, SLC, CLE, and the recently-added PHL are examples of that; there are probably others

I can see your point on LAX, DTW, IAH...but SLC, CLE and STL aren't the same scale of hubs..."super hubs," if you will...that will garner the same territorialism as ATL...DL and FL have their main hubs there and recognize the business threat of WN, thus they'd move to squash it...especially after seeing what happened in PHL.

PHL is an exception, as you alluded to, b/c of the fact that US had bigger fish to fry...such as staying afloat!

Despite DL being in Chapter 11...

Really???



"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7519 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7405 times:

From Reply #14

Despite DL being in Chapter 11

Correction, the portion of the sentence should read:

With DL possibly filing for Chapter 11

Thanks for the 'heads-up' ConcordeBoy



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7285 times:

I wasn't being sarcastic at all..

There will be consolidation among the LCCs. AirTran's assets would fit very well with SWA.

AirTran's taking delivery of SWA-friendly 73Gs.

Southwest could try the 717 to open up smaller cities or give them back to Boeing in exchange for favorable rates on even more 737s.

It'd allow Southwest to even just experiment with DCA and LGA, but most likely those could be sold off to someone else for more cash.

But as I've said here in the past, here's the real benefit for SWA. Imagine half of ATL's C Concourse with canyon blue planes parked there...

ATL facilities are changing quite a bit. There's the planned south terminal, and with the new runway reducing delays quite a bit, I think it's a distinct possibility.

(of course, I think DFW will happen first)


User currently offlineUA744KSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7240 times:

Balls don't equal sound business judgment. In fact, usage of balls in excess can lead to shareholder derivative lawsuits if you're completely careless.

User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2075 posts, RR: 36
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7227 times:

I can see your point on LAX, DTW, IAH...but SLC, CLE and STL aren't the same scale of hubs..."super hubs," if you will...that will garner the same territorialism as ATL...DL and FL have their main hubs there and recognize the business threat of WN, thus they'd move to squash it...especially after seeing what happened in PHL.

St Louis was on the brink of a super hub, 522 flights a day isn't anything to laugh at. Actually, MidAmerica airport was partially built on the idea that they would be able to attract service from WN.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7152 times:

You'd be shocked by the number of people that drive on over to Birmingham. They're doing fine where they are.

ATL is a huge, delay prone, expensive airport. I know, I know, so is PHL.

N


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7034 times:

WN doesn't like to deal with slot-controlled airports, either, especially since most slot controlled airports also tend to be delay prone.

The only way WN will ever start service into the Atlanta area would be when a second airport finally gets built, and more than likely, it would be like IAD was at first, way the hell away from town. Before embarking on the ATL Masterplan, the City of Atlanta did revisit the idea of a second airport, and several sites were considered before finally deciding to add another runway @ ATL, including the longtime City owned land up in Dawson County. They decided on the ATL Masterplan after the NIMBYs in several North Georgia counties protested the idea of a commerical airport.

WN did consider service out of either FTY or PDK, but in reality, it wouldn't have happened even if the NIMBYs didn't protest. The runways at both FTY and PDK are not able to handle the weight of a typically loaded 737.


User currently offlineIowa744fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6995 times:

A couple of notes. When WN started service to Detroit, they served the smaller Detroit City Airport on the NE (?) side of town, but only moved to DTW after the city did not perform upgrades that it had promised. Plus, DTW I do not believe that DTW causes a tremendous amount of delays.

As for IAH, do they even have anything more than the flights to DAL? They started in IAH before moving to HOU to get closer to downtown (kind of started their trend of using smaller airports) and they have a minimal schedule at IAH as the majority of their operations are from HOU.

As for "having the nuts", this is just plain stupid. If I was an employee or a stockholder of an airline, I would be more concerned with the airline making wise business decisions instead of trying to show that they had the nuts to take on some big carrier. Also, are you so sure that given the current conditions of each airlines, cash reserves, and credit ratings, are you sure that DL could outlast WN? Also, with regards to MSP, given that they probably could not even get decent gate access to the airport (because MSP and the MN goverment protect NW...with understandable reason and it happens elsewhere), why bother.

Finally, Custer had nuts....did it do him any good?


User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6755 times:

They'll be in ATL when the new runway is finished and they purchase AirTran...

Purchase AirTran? What have you been smoking? Pass it along! Why would the FL stockholders approve such a thing? FL has issued a profit warning for this quarter, but not for the year, and they'll likely pick back up when the idiots stop speculating on oil and the price drops by a third.

True, especially considering that WN wouldn't know what "on time" meant if smacked them right in the face. I doubt they'd want to make matters worse.

WN has some of the best on-time performance in the industry. Try speaking about fact, not what's in your head.

...thus proving that not all a.net users reside in reality

See above.

St Louis was on the brink of a super hub, 522 flights a day isn't anything to laugh at.

Particularly if the city has a GMSA of less than 3 million people.

Iowa744fan:

The term is "balls." "Nuts" has a connotation of crazy, insane. "Balls" means they've got spirit, bravado, and courage.



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
25 SW733 : Sorry, I am in a rush to leave for the airport and so I only read a few responses, so I apologize if someone already said this...I don't think it's th
26 Luv2fly : Iowa744fan FYI! WN did indeed start DTW first (6-4-87) and ran DET from July 1988 to September 1993. They were already operating from DTW for over a f
27 Goomba : If PDK (Peachtree Dekalb) airport on the north end of Atlanta were to accept WN as an airline...wouldn't it be lucrative? The north end of Atlanta is
28 Goomba : If PDK (Peachtree Dekalb) airport on the north end of Atlanta were to accept WN as an airline...wouldn't it be lucrative? The north end of Atlanta is
29 Usairways16bwi : a few reasons: 1- as many of you have already said, they dont have the balls. 2-ATL has too many delays. i have never travelled thru ATL without being
30 Isitsafenow : After checking with airnav.com, whats wrong with using Fulton County airport instead of Peachtree? Its closer to downtown ATL and the runway is only 1
31 Goingboeing : 1- as many of you have already said, they dont have the balls. USAirways only WISHED they had the balls that SWA has. They might not have bailed on th
32 Spark : Southwest avoids large busy airports like the plague, even if it means abandoning potential large markets. Just like what happened in Denver, when Sou
33 Post contains images Iowa744fan : Elwood, I'll take your word for it as I am not a literary expert! Luv2fly, Shoot, someone told me that before and I just keep forgetting it. Also, jus
34 Flairport : I also remember talks of Dobbins ARB possibly being used for commercial service. If PDK or FTY were able to offer commercial service, I think that WN
35 N6376m : Having balls has nothing to do with running a profitable company. WN doesn't flight into ATL for a couple basic reasons: 1. There aren't enough gates
36 Swadispatcher : We did at one time look at Charlie Brown airport but they "locals" shot down the idea.. as for Hartsfield, one phrase comes to mind.. "Ground Delay Pr
37 N1120a : I cannot believe someone here thinks WN is never on time. They have averaged 80% for almost 35 years, who else does that? They have plenty of balls. T
38 NWDC10 : WN will do better in DFW. Robert NWDC10
39 Swadispatcher : That question may be answered tomorrow, Robert..
40 Usairways16bwi : well givin the situation that US is in, i dont think that they can afford to put up much of a fight (WN) to win over an airport. WN obviously would n
41 Travelin man : WN is only successful because they avoid serious competition with the big airlines and they take advantage of struggling airlines. That's one of the m
42 ATLhomeCMH : LambertMan: St Louis was on the brink of a super hub, 522 flights a day isn't anything to laugh at. Actually it is when you attempt to compare it with
43 Usairways16bwi : .....but that was shuttle not mainline services. and US may not have been as bad as they are now when WN took BWI, but they were on their way down
44 PHLBOS : US may not have been as bad as they are now when WN took BWI, but they were on their way down Worth noting: US was already scaling back its BWI operat
45 Travelin man : .....but that was shuttle not mainline services. When I said Shuttle, I didn't mean United Shuttle. I meant just the trip from SoCal to NoCal (the ~1
46 Iowa744fan : but that was shuttle not mainline services. What is your point to this one? Shuttle was supported by (and basically was) United and even had the benei
47 Rage323machine : People don't really want to go to OAK/SJc they want to go to SFO. People dont wanna go to MDW they want to go to ORD. JFK/LGA but WN goes to ISP. WN i
48 PHLBOS : HOU but not IAH WN serves both HOU & IAH.
49 Ssides : People don't really want to go to OAK/SJc they want to go to SFO. People dont wanna go to MDW they want to go to ORD. JFK/LGA but WN goes to ISP. WN i
50 Post contains images ATLhomeCMH : Brons2: You're comments amuse me. But, you're forgetting two things: (1) I owe you nothing. (2) Even if WN did go to ATL, they would be at the whim of
51 Jonesy869 : Southwest probably could go into any hub and kick anybody's ass if they wanted to.....doing it to US in PHL when US is at its weakest though......but
52 Srbmod : FTY and PDK will never see any a/c larger than what they see now because the runways cannot handle the weight of a 737. PDK is in the process of resur
53 Brons2 : True, especially considering that WN wouldn't know what "on time" meant if smacked them right in the face. I doubt they'd want to make matters worse.
54 SESGDL : "They are sensing that DL may be getting weak(since they MIGHT go into bankruptcy soon), and they jump at that opportunity. Its not like they would tr
55 7E72004 : just out of curiosity...how far is Macon from ATL?
56 Post contains links ATLhomeCMH : Brons2: I have a suggestion. Why don't you just stay off these WN threads so we can have a substantive discussion about the company without your bashi
57 Post contains links ATLhomeCMH : 7E72004: From the center of Atlanta to the center of Macon is roughly 84 miles, thus about 1.5 hrs by car. Here's the MapQuest link if you want: http:
58 Deltadude : Macon would be a good alternative....especially if a high speed rail link where every built between the two cities. Nevermind...I'm in fantasy land ag
59 Elwood64151 : Actually it is when you attempt to compare it with ATL's 2,550 daily arrivals and departures. Again, ATL has 5 million people in its GMSA. STL has les
60 Panam330 : Spark, "Southwest avoids large busy airports like the plague, even if it means abandoning potential large markets. Just like what happened in Denver,
61 Goingboeing : Macon would be a good alternative....especially if a high speed rail link where every built between the two cities. Nevermind...I'm in fantasy land ag
62 Deltadude : Actually, I think they'd have a better chance of getting Dobbins AFB opened up for commercial operations. Then they'd get traffic from the high growth
63 Jahckass : i saw 2 737's land and depart FTY in the last week. FTY was in the process of building a new runway to lure WN, they also built a new tower. When the
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