Star_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 50514 times:
Hi,
I'm over in Chicago at the moment, just turned on the local TV news to hear that a Kalitta 747-200F lost one of its engines last night on a flight from ORD to NYC (JFK I believe), somewhere over Michigan. The a/c diverted to Detroit where it's expected that it will be impounded by the NTSB until maintenance and safety checks have been completed. They believe the engine fell off somewhere around Kalamazoo, MI, although there is also a chance that it could have ended up in the lake. So far there have been no reports about anyone being hit by a 747 engine in the area!
Can't find a link to this just yet, will keep looking though...
Here's the Kalitta page showing some info on their 742s:
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9692 posts, RR: 10 Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 49878 times:
Scary. Its a bit like the El Al 92 disaster with a better ending. Boeing made some strenghtening of the pylons then, and I thought this change would have been mandatory to be retrofitted to older Jumbos.
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9692 posts, RR: 10 Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 49589 times:
Star_world,
I do not read 747-100F in this article. In typical well-informed manner the jounalist responsible writes "747-R". Whatever that is, only the writer nows.
Star_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 49475 times:
I know, they've been saying "741-R" on the TV reports, which is different again! Looking at the Kalitta website though it appears to be a 747-100F, assuming they got the -100 bit right!
TheGregster From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 100 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 49184 times:
If I remember they grounded Concorde because of the faulty fuel lines surely grounding old 747s would make sence as they don’t even know why it happend, luckly nobody died but should this happen again the out come could be worse.
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9692 posts, RR: 10 Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 48828 times:
Out of my mind I recall Kalitta has 4 747-100Fs, three in full livery, one in pure white. All 4 are older than 30 years, the oldest only is 34 years old!
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6908 posts, RR: 29 Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 48778 times:
Its Kalitta......I'm honestly not too surprised......
LifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1881 posts, RR: 8 Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 48690 times:
Well, isn't (or wasn't) this a specific B747 problem? The El Al B747's which crashed into an appartment-building in Amsterdam also lost one of it's engines, causing severe damage on the wing. Faulty bolts were to blaim if I recall correctly and the authorities issued an inspection on all the bolts.
Scary to see it happening again, but looks like all went okay after the engine fell off.
HlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 48405 times:
**""I'll be at DTW tomorrow and will try to get a picture. Unless NWA has loaned out a hanger, it could be parked near the airport's main entrance.""**
Why would it be at DTW? Wouldn't the Kalitta aircraft go 6 miles west to YIP where Kalitta is based? After all, Kalitta has its maintenance buildings at YIP, then they will probably ferry it up to Oscoda where the heavy maintenance is done.
This isnt the first time a 747 has dropped an engine in Michigan. I remember an engine falling off of a BA 747 out of ORD back in the late 80s early 90s that dropped somewhere in Farmington Hills Michigan.
StudentFlyer From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 688 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 48077 times:
Well, isn't (or wasn't) this a specific B747 problem?
It could well be, as you said, LifelinerOne, the El Al lost one of its engines. I also recalled a JAL 743 lost one of its engine (number 2 or 3) in Jakarta a couple of years ago, and although it wasn't the whole engine, but most of it did fall off. The aircraft returned safely, yet the engine fell to someone's backyard!
Anyway, in relation to Kalitta's 741, I'm not surprised. 741s are well too old IMO to fly these days, as the airframe is already, at its oldest, 35 years, and with the life of it, there's not much left. But lucky the aircraft returned safely, or it will be another B747 accident in a week. Fortunately things went under control .
Tjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2300 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 47521 times:
Here ya go:
FlightID: CKS825 (Cargo Jet)
Status: TIMEOUT (What does this mean?)
Owner: KITTY HAWK INT'L INC. D/B/A AMERICAN INT'L AIRWAYS (YPSILANTI, MI)
Radio Call: CONNIE
Type: B741 (Boeing Company Model 747-100)
Origin Apt: ORD CHICAGO O'HARE INTL
Dest Apt: DTW DETROIT METROPOLITAN WAYNE COUNTY
Departed: 09:20 PM CDT (0220Z)
Original ETA: 11:45 PM EDT (0345Z)
I'm sure the radar records will be examined and the flight path checked by the NTSB so they can try and find the missing engine. Hunting season is gearing up here in Michigan- perhaps a hunter will find the wayward JT-9D.
"Hey Abe, look what I found out in the back forty....."
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
Kim777fan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 510 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 46986 times:
Now THAT is nuts!! I can only imagine the kind of impact a 747 engine can make hiting the ground from 15,000 feet up. No question that it's going to go through whatever it hits and blow apart spectacularly with the force of a small bomb. Very luckily, it does sound as if it did in fact fall into an uninhabited area.
Pilotman52 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 54 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 45989 times:
Hi all,
I live in Kalamazoo and there is no news (yet, at least) of an engine crashing down here. If I hear anything about this matter, I'll post something later!
Neilalp From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1034 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 45892 times:
Yeah that whole landing at DTW when they are based at YIP confused me. And why would you want to put in danger a major airport in case something happened on landing when you could use a non major.
Rampkontroler From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 859 posts, RR: 7 Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 45529 times:
Donny Darko anyone? Anyway, the DC-8 that you are talking about Jetmek319, is this one:
It was clear air turbulence which led to the separation of 19' (!) of the leading edge of the left wing AND lost an engine. It did land safely at Stapleton.
As for 34 years old being OLD? Not if properly maintained...many planes are flying around right now that are at least that old, and carrying passengers to boot! It may turn out to be something that could have happened to anyone without warning. Speculation gets us nowhere, as we know! Let's see how this plays out.
Manta From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 59 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 45245 times:
Latest information from the Chicago Tribune - nothing we all haven't heard already:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Cargo plane lands safely in Detroit after losing engine
Published October 21, 2004, 3:24 AM CDT
CHICAGO (AP) _ A cargo plane bound for New York's Kennedy International Airport landed safely at Detroit Metropolitan Airport after losing an engine somewhere over Michigan.
The Kalitta Air jet took off from O'Hare International Airport in Chicago late Wednesday. It later reported mechanical problems with one of its engines, a Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman in Chicago said.
The Boeing 741-R was able to fly but was diverted as a safety precaution to Detroit, where it landed without incident, FAA officials said. No one was injured.
After the landing, airline personnel discovered the engine was completely gone, FAA officials said.
Michigan authorities searched Thursday for the engine, which may have fallen into Lake Michigan, the FAA said.
The FAA will investigate the incident, but the results of an investigation could take weeks, the FAA said.
Spacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3277 posts, RR: 14 Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 44838 times:
This is an unfortunately fairly common occurence with the 747. I don't know if it's the design of the pylons or what (in that they're more difficult to maintain and inspect than other airplanes), but it's happened to China Airlines over Taiwan, El Al over Amsterdam, Evergreen (operating as JAL) over Anchorage, Northwest at Narita, and now this Kalitta flight, and that's just off the top of my head. There may be more. It seems that given the number of 747's in the world (there are far fewer than, say, 737's), this would be a disproportionate number of incidents of a specific type.
TheGregster: you don't ground an entire airplane type because of one accident or incident before you know the cause, notwithstanding my earlier statement. The results can be economically catastrophic both for the airlines and for the airplane manufacturer. Many people still don't feel the Concorde should have been grounded either, but there were only a few of them flying in the world so the economic factor wasn't as much of a concern. Still, you see what happened to the Concorde afterwards - it never recovered. It creates a perception among the public that the plane is unsafe to fly.
Planes do unfortunately crash sometimes, but we're not out grounding CRJ200's or Jetstreams or 747's this week just because there have been accidents/incidents involving them. The only time you ground an aircraft type is when you can definitively link several incidents to a single design flaw or to a single maintenance procedure recommended by the manufacturer.
The 747 engine separations in the past have all been slightly different, from what I know - faulty bolts in the El Al case, fatigue cracks in the Evergreen case, etc. So I don't think there's any reason to ground the entire fleet.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
757drvr From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 63 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 44528 times:
The crew probably decided to divert to DTW over YIP because of much longer runways at DTW, not to mention better CFR. In an emergency situation a crew will usually elect to have the longest runway available to them for their landing. At YIP the runways are rather short when compared to DTW and in a 747, the touchdown must be almost perfect to avoid going off the end there at YIP. One less thing a crew dealing with an emergency needs to worry about. Although we practice it in the sim all the time, you would much rather not have to "go around" during an emergency approach and landing.
ATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 44433 times:
Kalitta? I've never even heard of them.
I wonder what THAT inflight announcement was: "Ok folks, from the flight deck--we're gonna be making a little bit of a detour b/c one of our engines just fell off...so, just sit back, try to relax, and we'll be on the ground shortly."
"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
25 Ltbewr: As to the use of the letter R instead of F, note on your keyboards that the R key is just above the F key, so probably a keystroke error. The most imp
26 Neilalp: ATL, It was a cargo flight, so I'm sure most of the boxes didn't care.
27 ATLhomeCMH: Haha gotcha. It was a really bad joke, I know
29 Hirisk: damn thats a big hole in the front of the wing!i'm just glad the engine didn't hit anybody on it's unplanned descent!if they havent found the engine y
30 Mexicana757: Scary!! what if that engine had fallen on someones house. I bet the FAA is going to be all over Kalitta and checking their mx standards.
31 N1120a: That thing just ripped off the wing. It does not look like it just slipped out of its bolts. I wonder if this has to do with inadequate inspection of
32 2H4: How about an airliners.net scavenger hunt/BBQ?
34 Sfilipowicz: I'm starting to get worried now, daily I get the Kallita 747's flying over my house after departing or arriving at AMS. Hope that they check the bolts
35 Levent: Wow, they got away lucky there I think!
36 Fbgdavidson: My father was on a VS 747 about 10-12yrs ago when an engine fell off over Scotland and they had to return to LHR!
37 ATLhomeCMH: 2H4: How about an airliners.net scavenger hunt/BBQ? lol Not a bad idea. Better bring your scuba gear.
38 FJWH: 2H4: What a sight !! But whats going on in Michigan this week? Crashes, engine falling off etc!? But some time ago another plane lost one of it's engi
39 Miamiair: Is it my imagination or does #2 look like its canted to the right?
40 Na: Mattbna, it can´t be N709CK you´re showing. That particular aircraft has a black deflector panel underneath the cockpit and windows as recent photos
41 Rampkontroler: Miamiair---You may be right...looks that way to me too. Interesting. Chuck
42 Indio66: Another instance not noted on the board is when a KLM 74 lost an engine on takeoff at LAX a few years back. It actually landed on the beach. Thankfull
43 Levent: "Is it my imagination or does #2 look like its canted to the right?" It indeed looks like it, something is wrong there. "The El Al B747's which crashe
44 Mattbna: NA: I know for a fact that the photo I have is 709CK as it looks like all of the other photos of 709CK in the database. I also have other shots of it
45 Miamiair: The FAA getting something wrong??? Heavens NO!!! I couldn't resist. The other thing I noted was the gap between the #2 pylon and the leading edge slat
47 Mattbna: I guess they have painted it since the most recent photo in the database (August 2004)... Matt --
48 Na: Unless N709CK had a heavy maintenance with repaint since August (hard to believe such a heavy check on a 32year old 747 when a imminent D-check can ev
49 Jtamu97: One thing I read which was quite amusing was that once it landed the maintenace crews inspected the aircraft to find that an entire engine was gone. N
50 Rampkontroler: Here's the story from Detroit's 7 News: You guys were wrong...turns out it was a Bowing! __________________________________________________________ A
51 Levent: "The five-member crew of the Kalitta Bowing 747..." Oh, please... I can´t believe it! Especially not in US media... "It is unknown what this Bowing 7
52 Na: cnn has a slideshow (18 pictures): http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/3838264/detail.html?subid=22100415&qs=1;bp=t It shows the no.2 engine ok, but do
53 Neilalp: Seems this is the latest.. Federal Aviation Administration officials believe an engine that sheared off a plane early Thursday may be resting at the b
54 Mattbna: After looking at those images and seeing the upper-deck windows I am now thinking that it is either N701CK or N701CK. I suppose N709CK could have had
55 Tjwgrr: "How about an airliners.net scavenger hunt/BBQ? " ------------------ I'm up in GRR- I'm game! We could use Jet A for charcoal lighter fluid! I'd say t
56 Levent: "They are very big airplanes," said Hogan. So what has that got to do with the engine search???
57 Tjwgrr: "Three flight crew and two mechanics were onboard the 747-100 aircraft that was transporting merchandise from China to New York. No injuries were repo
58 Indio66: Levent - Great point! What a dumb arse!
59 Starlionblue: . I don't know if it's the design of the pylons or what (in that they're more difficult to maintain and inspect than other airplanes), but it's happen
60 Okie: One thing I read which was quite amusing was that once it landed the maintenace crews inspected the aircraft to find that an entire engine was gone. I
61 ConcordeBoy: the El Al 92 disaster with a better ending ...what El Al 92 "disaster"?
62 Na: Cnn slideshow confirms plugged windows. Very odd an airline makes such a major change on a 32 year-old aircraft. I still think it isn´t N709CK unless
63 Miamiair: I would hate to be some poor schlep fishing in that lake at night. Can you imagine that? A whistling sh_t can coming out the sky...hell of a splash. T
64 Na: ConcordeBoy, I´m referring to the double engine loss of EL Al´s freighter that eventually crashed into a Amsterdam suburb 12 years ago.
65 CALMSP: I'm sure my old newspaper the Western Herald will be all over the story seeing as though we are an Aviation School!! Wonder if it did land somewhere i
66 Jtamu97: "Kalitta Air, which is based at Willow Run Airport in Ypsilanti, began service in November 200 with three jets. Eight additional jets have since been
67 Pilotman52: I'll keep my out in the newspaper for yah CALMSP! I'm here at Western, maybe somethin will show up! Pilotman52
68 Isitsafenow: HLYWDCATFT....If a 747 engine landed in Farmington Hills, it would of ended up in someones den. Thats a heavy populated area, suburbia at its best. I
69 Hmmmm...: The pylons are attached to the wings with what are called "fuse" pins at various points. As the name implies, it is a metal pin that is designed to bl
70 Syncmaster: From the local Kalamazoo news... "October 21, 2004 - 10:58AM ROMULUS (AP) - - A cargo plane from Chicago landed safely at Detroit Metropolitan Airport
71 Flairport: As for 34 years old being OLD? Not if properly maintained...many planes are flying around right now that are at least that old, and carrying passenger
72 JumboJet: glad everyone is ok. As for where the detached engine might be, anyone try E-Bay?
73 SteveKempf: It was N709CK. I got a shot of it the other day on its first flight after coming out of heavy maintenance at OSC. This was taken October 11th as it pa
74 BoeingPride800: I knew this would happen. Notice how this happened just after the NW Airlink CRJ crashed. I've noticed that when an aircraft crashes something else li
75 Mattbna: Not sure why everyone keeps calling the slide show in reply #53 a "CNN slideshow" as it is a Detroit news media web site that has the slide show - CNN
76 AGrayson514: Like someone said earlier, why would they not have been able to see where the engine went from the radar return? I remember reading about TWA 800, and
77 Burnsie28: Kalitta Air, which is based at Willow Run Airport in Ypsilanti, began service in November 200 with three jets. Eight additional jets have since been a
79 2H4: Kalitta has exsited since 1967 in one form or another. American International Airways, Kitty Hawk International, Kalitta Air, Kalitta Charters, etc. T
80 Jfkaua: Imagine what that would feel like .. just relaxing enjoying the view out your windo then woop the engine goes flying off.. I think I would be speechle
81 Lrockeagle: Sorry for bein' an idiot, but wouldn't it be fairly noticeable when an engine falls off a plane? It seems the crew would feel that and be able to come
82 ZKSUJ: Holy Crap, Lucky no one was hurt. I like the photo there United_Fan
83 WingnutMN: As spacecadet pointed out in response 22 "Northwest in Narita" I do believe that the NW 747 was a 200 and it was determined that this was the first fl
84 Jran225: Hey guys, I was looking through the Airdisasters.com database for similar incedences and I noticed something very suspicious. All of these events when
85 AWspicious: Would it have been too dark up there for the crew to see the engine was missing? Or, perhaps, they were too busy trying to fly the damn thing to even
86 Skibum9: If it was N709CK, that plane has a long and interesting history. The cn is 20247/159. It started off as one of Delta's 747s. View Large View MediumPho
87 Bobs89irocz: In the early 90's a Delta 737-200 lost an engine on TO out of DFW. Dont remember the details but i do remember the day it was all over the news.
88 2H4: Man, that plane looked so much cooler in Delta colors....
89 KDTWFlyer: Lucky nobody was hurt, crew or on the ground. Imagine the effects of the JT9D-7A which weighs in at 8,850 lbs. hitting something on the ground after f
90 Tbanger: For the people expecting radar to pick up a falling engine....You would need Primary Radar. ATC rarely use a Primary Radar. ATC use a Secondary Radar
91 747-600X: Hmmmm... Well, this plane was obviously not built since 1982, so that wouldn't seem like a probable explanation. Also, does the FAA report say this th
92 Papa: hi i think thet the time is her thet the 747-100/200 will stop flying!!! cargo and sivil....this time it hepent on cargo and the next time it will be
93 Levent: "Wouldn't a 747 - even a freighter - have at least 2 aboard???" In this case three, as it´s a classic (CPT/FO/FE)
94 Vatveng: But whats going on in Michigan this week? Crashes, engine falling off etc!? Michigan: The new Bermuda Triangle
95 Maiznblu_757: FlightID: CKS9709 (Cargo Jet) Status: IN FLIGHT Owner: KITTY HAWK INT'L INC. D/B/A AMERICAN INT'L AIRWAYS (YPSILANTI, MI) Radio Call: CONNIE Ground Sp
96 KYIPpilot: Would it have been too dark up there for the crew to see the engine was missing? I might be wrong, but I thought that you cannot even see the wingtips
97 Dtwops: The aircraft took off from DTW at appx. 1245 P.M. today on runway 22L minus the #1 engine. Got some good video of the departure.
98 Maiznblu_757: The aircraft took off from DTW at appx. 1245 P.M. today on runway 22L minus the #1 engine. Got some good video of the departure. You are absolutely co
99 OPNLguy: >>>In the early 90's a Delta 737-200 lost an engine on TO out of DFW. Dont remember the details but i do remember the day it was all over the news. Se
100 Je89_w: Interesting news there, glad no one was hurt. Would like to see some more photos!
101 Airlinelover: DTWOPS- Did it seem to have any difficulity with the takeoff? I'd really like to see the vid.. Chris
102 Hmmmm...: Well, this plane was obviously not built since 1982, so that wouldn't seem like a probable explanation. You misunderstand. It doesn't matter how old t
103 Fred1982: Anyway to get that video of the takeoff on here?
104 Spacepope: ASN has this airframe's preliminary status as W/O. Any confirmation? It headed up to Oscoda, but is that for repairs or parting out?
105 2H4: Sounds like the search for the engine has been narrowed to a 2-square-mile area of Lake Michigan. So much for my theory that it landed near Battle Cre
106 MUC-PIX: It definitely was N709CK, I was lucky to take two photos at DTW only hours after the incident, photos taken 10:00 am on October 21st (they didn´t lik
107 HlywdCatft: ***Federal Aviation Administration officials believe an engine that sheared off a plane early Thursday may be resting at the bottom of Lake Michigan.*
108 Na: N709CK is in service again. There are several photos on the web shot in the last days that are proof for that.
109 2H4: Little update: Kalitta has confirmed that the engine is definitely in Lake Michigan. It is scheduled to be recovered sometime next week. 2H4
110 B737200300: Kalitta should have stuck to racing...
111 NWB757300: ...or maybe their engine should have stuck to the wing
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