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Which UA Hub Will Suffer The Most From Downsizing  
User currently offlineJfrworld From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 365 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7329 times:

United has announced plans to reduce domestic capacity while increasing international capacity next year. Does anyone know which UA hubs might be most effected. My guess is DEN or IAD. UA is pretty weak on the east coast which is why I think UA might reduce some capacity on the east coast. DEN is a major east/west domestic connecting point so that makes sense to me. SFO is the largest of UA's international gateways and one of the weaker domestic hubs anyway, which leads me to believe that SFO will only get stronger with more international traffic.

Any thoughts?

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAs739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6126 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7250 times:

World...I'd have to agree. I think that IAD will be effected the most. The domestic feed will have less flights to feed when International build up is somewhere else. In my opinion the build up will be from ORD. Below are my thoughts.
1) SFO gets much stronger with more Int'l traffic and a few added flights to feed them.
2) ORD will get more Int'l flights. UA will drop domestic to get in agreement with the ORD slot restrictions.
3) IAD will lose some domestic feed if more IT flights are going out of ORD.
4) DEN will go unchanged

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineNomorerjs From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7238 times:

ASSFO,

I agree with you 100%. I expect UA to cut flights at ORD due to "voluntary flight reductions", but add larger planes to keep capacity ahead of AAs. But given UAs management, who knows what they will do.


User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7229 times:

And what about LAX. Are we going to see some of our international flights come back (perhaps the return of UA1/2, the RTW flights?)


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22925 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7205 times:

UA will drop domestic to get in agreement with the ORD slot restrictions.
I wasn't aware that ORD was slot controlled. When did that happen?


I think that what happens at IAD will at least partially depend on US' future. I imagine that if the merger had gone through, IAD would have been dropped as a hub in favor of PHL and (to a lessor extent) CLT. The idea of the US/UA partnership is still that the east coast is US' domain, however. Thus, I see some downsizing at IAD if US sticks around. If US liquidates, I think we could see a lot (I use this term really loosely) of growth at IAD. WAS is a huge O&D market, and northern Virginia is growing at a pretty good clip. MWAA is improving the facilities, and connecting at IAD is still, IMHO, much easier than at ORD (especially if there is an international flight involved).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAs739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6126 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7105 times:

ORD is not slot restricted per se but is on a restriction. I use the words slot restiction not in the term you are thinking. We here at A.net have been through this enough, most know what each other mean. UA/AA are both reducing the their flights per the FAA request. This is a perfect excuse to drop there amount of domestic flights and use larger a/c.

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1794 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7011 times:

So will NRT see more flights? Or will they see larger planes? 744 back again instead of the 777? They are expanding Terminal 1, so will UA use those slots or who'll use them?


Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineAAplatnumflier From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6903 times:

Ya what about LAX? Is it considered a hub or a focus city as UA has a big presence here? And I believe that AA will one day in the future operate LAX-ORD on a 777 just to compete with UA. What are your opinions?

User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6894 times:

And what about LAX. Are we going to see some of our international flights come back (perhaps the return of UA1/2, the RTW flights?)

UA1/2 is now ORD-HNL-ORD non-stop. As it used to be. Big grin


User currently offlineJfrworld From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6824 times:

SFO is very strong internationally with international connections to both the Pacific and Europe for UA. Domestic traffic is much weaker than DEN or ORD as it seems as though most of the domestic traffic for UA at SFO is either O&D or feeder traffic for the international flights.

What about DEN? DEN is the weakest hub for international connections with no flights to Europe or Asia. It is almost entirely an east/west connection point for domestic traffic. Does anyone see any reductions there?


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6805 times:

As DEN is UA's most profitable hub, I have reason to believe that would be the LAST place UA would want to make cuts. I agree that at IAD and ORD, domestic flights will be swapped for more international. I think UA is trying to build up IAD as a strong international gateway, at least they should.

User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6706 times:

I don't think UA downsize too much. Their press release used the term decrease capacity. So I hope that the amount of flights stays the same and that only some mainline routes are replaced by regional jets.

User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4503 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6708 times:

DEN is the weakest hub for international connections with no flights to Europe or Asia.

DEN has a FRA-flight, albeit operated by Lufthansa, but codeshared on by United, and UA/LH offer quite a bit of connections between Europe and the Western United States through this FRA-DEN flight.

Regarding the original topic, the hub that has undoubtedly suffered the most is MIA, as it is no longer a hub. And what's the status of JFK? Hasn't UA been reducing its presence there over the past coupe of years. Or is JFK just a focus city?

I vouch against the idea of UA's closign the IAD hub. That would leave them with ORD as the first point of entry in the US for most of its European flights, and ORD is just too far out of the way for those East Coast bount passengers.



User currently offlineBa319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8535 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6569 times:
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Well MIA has been basically killed off. Despite the large reduction in the 737 fleet as 735 & 733 aircraft are returned off lease,i'd imagine many of those routes will be replaced by E170 aircraft operated by Republic. So,capacity will be reduced but frequency can be maintained,or thats what I see happening.

If US enters C7,that would provide UA with huge potential revenue & passenger increase down the east coast,though I really hope US can pull through these difficult times.



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9168 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6278 times:

Wonder if we will see LAX- HKG again one day.

HKG-DEN. Is that possible?


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6238 times:

Show me some NRT-DEN or KIX-DEN. That's what we need.

User currently offlineBahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1780 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6105 times:

UA has already closed the MIA hub. Do not expect more cuts from them. There is a lingering though of increasing Ted service but I will have to see it to belive it. If it wasn't for $55/barrel oil prices UAL Inc. would be profitable by now. The airline has been showing operational profit (a small one I might add) for the last few months.


Earthbound misfit I
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22925 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5785 times:

UA has already closed the MIA hub

I wouldn't classify MIA as a hub and, afaik, UA never did either. Keeping MIA open was stupid. Toward the end, most connecting pax who wanted to go to EZE or GRU would have had to double connect anyway (MSP-ORD-MIA-GRU or some such), so shifting those flights to ORD and IAD saved money because it allowed the closing of a base and also made more sense for pax... a win-win situation.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5584 times:

Show me some NRT-DEN or KIX-DEN. That's what we need.


Your more likely to see that from NW then UA.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16862 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5549 times:

Without even going into the discussion from a week or two ago about Gordon Bethune's CO/UAL comments I think it would be in both companies interest if CO and UAL were to become partners.

CO leaves DL and NWA and UAL leaves US Airways.

The two compliment each other well, UAL has Heathrow and CO has 24 other European destinations and their EWR hub.

UAL has the NRT hub and CO has their Air Micronesia operation including 8 Japanese Cities.

CO has the IAH hub and vast Mexico, Central American, Latin American and Carribean operations. UAL has route authorities to Argentina, Uraguay, Chile, Brazil etc..



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineNWAFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1893 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5534 times:

DEN is a cash cow, from what I read and hear. Yet this so called business plan of focusing on International flying, DEN would be hit as they don't fly accross the ponds from/to DEN.

IAD maybe...it also depends if Indy Air makes it or not...ORD may be hit becuse of traffic restraints. SFO is UA to call theirs.

It will be interesting to see what the Indepent firm that is going to look at UA's business plan says about UA..



THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
User currently offlineAlphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 937 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5375 times:

UA's domestic downsizing is a minimal 3% after UAX makes up for the rest of the cuts. It won't have much effect on any hub unless, of course, you are an employee.

STT757;

CO is contractually obligated to honor their marketing agreement with NW until 2025. The only way to get around this agreement, other than buying it out, is to file for bankruptcy. Either way, it certainly is NOT in CO's financial interest to partner with UA.



"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
User currently offlineNWAFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1893 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5333 times:

STT,

With CO now apart of SkyTeam, it is totally in their best interest to not leave both the SkyTeam and NWA.



THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
User currently offlineAA777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2544 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5177 times:
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They will keep IAD-- Its UA's biggest hub going eastwards-- international flights. UA serves all over europe, with multiple flights to LHR, MUC, CDG, AMS, EZE, DUS, FRA, ZRH, GRU, BRU, MEX, SJO.

They would be stupid to slow down IAD ops. If anything, they should up them, and lose some of the ORD ops that I know AA dominates. Keep DEN, and Keep SFO. LAX could stay as is.

-AA777


User currently offlineMoose1226 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 250 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5094 times:

AA777, UA does NOT server DUS from IAD.

25 StevenUhl777 : I agree with AA777: UA has invested a lot of time and money to build IAD from what it was to what it is right now, and this won't change anytime soon,
26 ScottB : It appears to me that part of the cuts in capacity will result from the introduction of the p.s. product on JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO. My thinking is that L
27 Avek00 : STT, With CO now apart of SkyTeam, it is totally in their best interest to not leave both the SkyTeam and NWA. How do you figure that? SkyTeam is noth
28 MSYtristar : I wouldn't look for LAX-MSY to stop operating. There's too much O&D traffic in the market for UA to ignore. They are in fact adding a 3rd daily season
29 Nosedive : Your more likely to see that from NW then UA. I'd love to see the O/D numbers that would warrent such a flight.....
30 NZblue : A lot of the remaining UA International Operations from LAX have carved a niche for United. Simply dropping a lot of those routes from LAX would not b
31 JoFMO : @NZBlue: I would support your comments about LAX. US has a stronghold on California and it doesnt make sence for southward destinations to backtrack t
32 MSYtristar : The problem with flying a lot of Ted flights into LAX is that LAX is a big time business market. You'd see mainline UA operate routes like LAX-ATL/MIA
33 RayChuang : It would be hard to downsize SFO operations because SFO is UA's largest hub for transpacific flights, with plentiful feeder flights from other cities
34 AAplatnumflier : If UA dropped LAX that would be utterly horrible. Isnt a lot of their 1k fliers down here in Southern California? As a matter of fact I have three 1K
35 Post contains images UAORD2000 : Den will stay the same, its too big of a cash cow for UA. IAD is too big of an international gateway to cut domestic feeders. SFO is UA's largest inte
36 ORDflyer : I can see a few domestic changes at ORD and adding some int'l flights, although I don't forsee huge changes in capacity as UAORD2000 mentioned. ORD is
37 Carpethead : Skywest & Republic have a bunch of CRJ700 & ERJ170s on order. These will effectively replace the 733/735 aircraft being withdrawn. It's a loss of 30 t
38 UA744Flagship : I have it on good authority that DEN will transition to more RJs, less mainline. That's what will happen. Other hubs not so much affected.
39 Thrust : DEN certainly seems to be a prime candidate for losing a lot of UA mainline. Since UA has specifically stated they are focusing on more lucrative inte
40 UA744Flagship : IAD won't change much. In fact it will see an increase in capacity should I-air file BK and scale back.
41 Thrust : Really? So does this mean that UA might wind up starting even more international service out of IAD????
42 JoFMO : The fact that UA will extend it's international network does not mean that they will not downsice their domestic network at their hubs. So I see not m
43 Flashmeister : I can definitely see DEN losing 'gauge' in markets where UA is dominant and there isn't touch with F9. For the F9 markets, I'd bet that we'd either se
44 Post contains images DLKAPA : For the moment the gate issue has been resolved. Right now United puts all the TED flights in their gates over on A. The mainline and express flights
45 N1120a : >LAX-GDL LAX-MTY LAX-MGA LAX-PTY LAX-BOG-CCS LAX-GYE-LIM LAX-SCL-EZE
46 Ord : "Chicago will loose some frequencies because of combining some regionals to less mainline flights." O'Hare will not lose any mainline. The market is w
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