ARGinMIA From Argentina, joined Nov 2001, 487 posts, RR: 6 Posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4465 times:
There was another topic about this.. but I have inside info from the actuall owner of the aircraft (NOT AIR ATLANTA) the owner is the same owner of Florida West..(partner with the Cueto family) (its an arabic name impossible to remember) a group of cordobeses ! are up in Miami finalizing everything.. and they want to rush it as much as possible..
ARGinMIA From Argentina, joined Nov 2001, 487 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4159 times:
Yes.. that one LatinAviation.. I couldnt remember the last name.. apparently they started as partners back when the Cueto Family bought their first DC-8 from them back when they where owner of Fast Air only.. apparently they are looking into 2 ex-singapore/Virgin
LVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38 Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3950 times:
Correct. Southern Winds had been looking into leasing 2-4 MD-11s through GECAS since May. The first deal fell through in late-June when SW failed to obtain necessary traffic rights to MEX--which was when AR moved in for the kill. Then plans were revived when SW began eyeing up 3 ex-Swiss MD-11s (HB-IWA, IWI, IWQ) in July, but in September it seems the deal was quietly called-off, with HB-IWQ now PP-VTU for RG (Star Alliance colours) and HB-IWA also earmarked for Brazil. I am unaware of the exact reasons as to what went wrong in the 2nd deal, but it wouldn't surprise me if inability to pay the lease rates was one of them.
And yes, LAN's 767s CC-CEN & CC-CML are both ex-Southern Winds (TF-ARB & TF-ARA), the latter of which curiously began its life in 1999 flying for LAPA as LV-ZPL until 2001, and then returned to Argentina in May 2002 as LV-ZYV for SW who subsequently had to take the aircraft off the Argentine register in order to serve MIA once CAT II restrictions came into force in July 2002. But having to pay the Air Atlanta pilots and the leasing rates in US Dollars proved costly, and the two aircraft left the fleet in December 2003 and March 2004 respectively.
SW then announced plans for 3 "new" 767s, to replace the other two and launch services to Mexico (CUN, MEX), but to date, only one replacement has arrived (LV-AIX, ex-N638TW), and it serves MAD 4 x weekly, on codeshare with UX. "Don Bosco", as LV-AIX was christened, has been flying transatlantic almost non-stop since February, so the sooner reinforcements arrive, the better.
Arcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2402 posts, RR: 25 Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3932 times:
ZXV: any idea about the origin of CC-CML? (I mean date). I flew it from LIM in april, wearing the new colors, and what was pure exitement at the beginning became pure dissapointment after boarding.
It looked very old, with no PTVs, ashtrays in the seats etc. Absolutely under LA's 767s standards I was used to it! Even the 732s looked better!
PS: I have to fly a 732 tomorrow, so I'll confirm my last comment! pretty exiting this week: tomorrow: SCL-LSC (La Serena) / thurs.:LSC-CPO (Copiapó) / friday: CPO-SCL, and finally my weekend in Buenos Aires! Sat: SCL-EZE (340!) and monday EZE-SCL (732 -can you believe I've never flown any LAN 320/319??? My only experience with 320s in AF!). I'll let you know!
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
LVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38 Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3918 times:
CC-CML is only 6 years old. It was two years with LAPA (as LV-ZPL), one year in storage in the US, and then two years with Southern Winds/Air Atlanta (as LV-ZYV, then TF-ARA), and arrived in SCL in early March 2004. Regarding the seats, TF-ARA had an unusual 3-class 201-seat layout, with Business, Surf (Premium Economy) and Economy--the latter with 35-inch pitch. A couple of my relations who flew in it said it was extremely comfortable, but of course, there were no PTVs. Did it look something like this when you flew on it?:
LVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38 Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3898 times:
They do. PU (Pluna) operate MVD-GIG-MAD with their 767 CX-PUB, although if ever it goes "technical" or is in for heavy maintenance, RG always have a 767 on stand-by, as they did in the days of the DC-10. There is no codesharing deal that I'm aware of between PU and UX--UX being Spain's Air Europa.
I too am a little miffed by Southern Winds' paintwork (or lack thereof), as their fleet of 8 aircraft are wearing 3 or 4 different liveries. In the case of LV-AIX, the only explanation I can offer is that the aircraft is operated by Portugal's Euro Atlantic Airways (MM), and I've noticed that 2 of RG's 767s are also operated by the Portuguese charter carrier, and look(ed) like this:
EZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4943 posts, RR: 26 Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3809 times:
Maybe this is a stupid question for which I apologiza in advance, but according to Avion Revue (international, September edition) Southern is in a very bed shape economically, so how are they going to afford to buy or lease planes?
EZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4943 posts, RR: 26 Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3794 times:
Honestly I don't know. I think southern winds offers a great option, not only for national flights, but most of all for EZE-MAD. I travelled with them a few times on that route and the overall service was not bad at all, and the prices were thye best on the market (520 € return flight). However, on most of these flights the plane was half empty. Is it a matter of bad marketing or is it that the average passenger prefers to fly with 'established' airlines even though they have to pay more in many cases?
LVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38 Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3701 times:
I don't know, there are quite a few (abstract) Southern Winds ads in La Nación almost daily, but ironically, the 767 service to Madrid is not one I've ever seen. The adverts are usually regional, like "Tucumán, Salta, Jujuy", or "Chapelco, Neuquén, Bariloche" or "Comodoro Rivadavia, Río Gallegos, El Calafate". I don't know the load factors on the domestic flights; I flew on SW from MDQ-AEP in late February, but the summer was already winding-down so I wasn't particularly surprised that the aircraft was only about half-full.
The trouble with MAD is that few travel agencies have even heard of Southern Winds, so you'll never get someone saying "well, I can get you US$800 with Iberia but US$500 with Southern Winds". No, you have to specifically ask them to type in the airline in the database, and often they can't find it. Keenly Travel in Argentina can book you Southern Winds to MAD sans problems.
Southern Winds only real publicity seems to come from word of mouth. The good thing is, they are as you say, "not bad at all". The bad thing is, who is going to believe that? Not many. My godfather thought I was pulling his leg when I told him about SW. Well, he just took them to Spain and back, and apologised profusely for not believing me. Oh well, when cynicism about Argentine products dies down a bit (if ever!), SW will hopefully stand a better chance, if they live to see that point in the pretty distant future...
LONG LIVE SOUTHERN WINDS!!!
P.S. Didn't you just love the TWA life-jackets in the 767?! Speaking of which, my flight in late-May was almost full.
P.P.S. Does anyone know if Air Europa still fly MAD-LGW?
LVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38 Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3539 times:
Would you happen to know the seat pitch on CC-CRH?
Maybe an inch or so less. LA's 767s are 219-seaters, as far as I know.
Is there any chance of A4 returning to MIA with the 763, or not?
Not with an Argentine-registered aircraft, or at least until CAT I is reinstated. Remember TF-ARA and TF-ARB had no problems, for obvious reasons.
And is there anyone who can explain the whole CAT II restriction on Argentina? I'm quite perplexed by this.
So am I. It is one the most ridiculous, proposterous and fraudulent rulings passed on Argentine aviation, and an insult to Argentine mechanics from LADE to Aerolíneas, who have always maintained high safety standards, and have few accidents to show for this.
Basically, during the nadir of the crisis, around July 2002, some FAA prats paid a visit to Argentina chose to put 2 and 2 together and conclude that the economic situation had led to an alarming decline in air safety in Argentina, such that it fell short of ICAO standards, when perhaps the opposite was true (the one serious incident in 2002 was courtesy of a Chilean saboteur in SCL).
Here are some of the specific (known) consequences of a CAT II downgrade:
CAT II certification implies a lower safety level, generating severe restrictions on the current operations of all of the country's flag carriers with flight operations to the US.
CAT II limits the country's air industry's growth potential to key markets. Expansion of flag carrier's services is severely restricted and puts the flag carriers at a significant competitive disadvantage vis-à-vis the flag carriers of CAT I countries.
How very civilised.
Each CAT II country's current airline service will be restricted to present levels. Route growth to US markets is suspended.
Smacks of Monroe.
Restricted ability to obtain commercial or code-share agreements with US carriers. Limits alliance development.
Foreign commercial and tourism visitor decline due to limited airline capacity and perception of danger or inadequacy. Reduction in foreign investment related to CAT II designation. Travel and tourism industry stagnates.
Allowing for a prompt and solid recovery, of course.
Stagnation or negative growth of the country's air carriers. Operating cost escalation (increased surveillance on wet-leases).
To give you an idea, Argentina's fellow members of the CAT II "losers" club include:
LVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 38 Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3369 times:
Last I heard, an FAA delegation were already in Argentina. If they've already left, then they should reach a conclusion by Christmas, though frankly I think the whole CAT II episode could have been avoided and was the product of poor judgement. Just my 2 centavos!