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Confirmed 747-200 For Southern Winds!  
User currently offlineARGinMIA From Argentina, joined Nov 2001, 487 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4990 times:

There was another topic about this.. but I have inside info from the actuall owner of the aircraft (NOT AIR ATLANTA) the owner is the same owner of Florida West..(partner with the Cueto family) (its an arabic name impossible to remember) a group of cordobeses ! are up in Miami finalizing everything.. and they want to rush it as much as possible..


Alto.. Mucho mas alto.. hasta la cumbre
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLatinAviation From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1276 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4883 times:

Is it the Rasnavad family? FWIA and LanChile have been partners, equity and otherwise, for sometime. Interesting news...

User currently offlinePIA747 From Pakistan, joined Apr 2003, 624 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4794 times:

any details on which B747 they are looking at?

User currently offlineARGinMIA From Argentina, joined Nov 2001, 487 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4684 times:

Yes.. that one LatinAviation.. I couldnt remember the last name.. apparently they started as partners back when the Cueto Family bought their first DC-8 from them back when they where owner of Fast Air only.. apparently they are looking into 2 ex-singapore/Virgin


Alto.. Mucho mas alto.. hasta la cumbre
User currently offlineLVTMB From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4610 times:

What routes would A4 use a 742 for? Would that be EZE-MAD?

MB


User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4964 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4598 times:

Any idea on date of delivery?


Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4584 times:

Seeing is believing. I'll cheer when they arrive, and no sooner.

Saludos,

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineMiamix707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 4528 times:

supposedly they were acquiring MD11s weren't they? I guess that did not go through.


User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2407 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4492 times:

AFAIK, Flodira West is owned by Lan Cargo, although I'm not sure the equity they own.
At least, that I read on LAN's balance sheets. BTW; LAN owns former Southern Winds' 767s.

Regards )( Arcano



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4475 times:

Miamix707:

Correct. Southern Winds had been looking into leasing 2-4 MD-11s through GECAS since May. The first deal fell through in late-June when SW failed to obtain necessary traffic rights to MEX--which was when AR moved in for the kill. Then plans were revived when SW began eyeing up 3 ex-Swiss MD-11s (HB-IWA, IWI, IWQ) in July, but in September it seems the deal was quietly called-off, with HB-IWQ now PP-VTU for RG (Star Alliance colours) and HB-IWA also earmarked for Brazil. I am unaware of the exact reasons as to what went wrong in the 2nd deal, but it wouldn't surprise me if inability to pay the lease rates was one of them.

And yes, LAN's 767s CC-CEN & CC-CML are both ex-Southern Winds (TF-ARB & TF-ARA), the latter of which curiously began its life in 1999 flying for LAPA as LV-ZPL until 2001, and then returned to Argentina in May 2002 as LV-ZYV for SW who subsequently had to take the aircraft off the Argentine register in order to serve MIA once CAT II restrictions came into force in July 2002. But having to pay the Air Atlanta pilots and the leasing rates in US Dollars proved costly, and the two aircraft left the fleet in December 2003 and March 2004 respectively.
SW then announced plans for 3 "new" 767s, to replace the other two and launch services to Mexico (CUN, MEX), but to date, only one replacement has arrived (LV-AIX, ex-N638TW), and it serves MAD 4 x weekly, on codeshare with UX. "Don Bosco", as LV-AIX was christened, has been flying transatlantic almost non-stop since February, so the sooner reinforcements arrive, the better.


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Photo © BAIRES Aviation Photography
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Photo © BAIRES Aviation Photography



Saludos,

ZXV

P.S. For those who need to fly between EZE and MAD, Southern Winds is not a bad choice...




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2407 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4457 times:

ZXV: any idea about the origin of CC-CML? (I mean date). I flew it from LIM in april, wearing the new colors, and what was pure exitement at the beginning became pure dissapointment after boarding.

It looked very old, with no PTVs, ashtrays in the seats etc. Absolutely under LA's 767s standards I was used to it! Even the 732s looked better!

Regards )(

PS: I have to fly a 732 tomorrow, so I'll confirm my last comment! pretty exiting this week: tomorrow: SCL-LSC (La Serena) / thurs.:LSC-CPO (Copiapó) / friday: CPO-SCL, and finally my weekend in Buenos Aires! Sat: SCL-EZE (340!) and monday EZE-SCL (732  Sad -can you believe I've never flown any LAN 320/319??? My only experience with 320s in AF!). I'll let you know!



in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4443 times:

Arcano:

CC-CML is only 6 years old. It was two years with LAPA (as LV-ZPL), one year in storage in the US, and then two years with Southern Winds/Air Atlanta (as LV-ZYV, then TF-ARA), and arrived in SCL in early March 2004. Regarding the seats, TF-ARA had an unusual 3-class 201-seat layout, with Business, Surf (Premium Economy) and Economy--the latter with 35-inch pitch. A couple of my relations who flew in it said it was extremely comfortable, but of course, there were no PTVs. Did it look something like this when you flew on it?:


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Photo © Cristián García Laborde



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Photo © José Ramón Valero - IBERIAN SPOTTERS
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Photo © José Ramón Valero - IBERIAN SPOTTERS



Sorry if it disappointed you!

Saludos,

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineMiamix707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4435 times:

Thanks ZXV for the info. By the way does Pluna still serve MAD with their 767? Since you said UX codeshares on the SW flight, UX is the code for Pluna right?

Hopefully the 747 if they do get it, gets painted in the complete livery, I hope LV-AIX's color scheme is not their adopted new colors, yuck.


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4423 times:

Miamix:

They do. PU (Pluna) operate MVD-GIG-MAD with their 767 CX-PUB, although if ever it goes "technical" or is in for heavy maintenance, RG always have a 767 on stand-by, as they did in the days of the DC-10. There is no codesharing deal that I'm aware of between PU and UX--UX being Spain's Air Europa.


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Photo © Alejandro Ruiz Yañez



I too am a little miffed by Southern Winds' paintwork (or lack thereof), as their fleet of 8 aircraft are wearing 3 or 4 different liveries. In the case of LV-AIX, the only explanation I can offer is that the aircraft is operated by Portugal's Euro Atlantic Airways (MM), and I've noticed that 2 of RG's 767s are also operated by the Portuguese charter carrier, and look(ed) like this:


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Photo © Balazs Pinter
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Photo © José Geraldes



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Photo © Paulo carvalho
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Photo © Carlos A. Morillo Doria



I too hope the 747s will wear the full colours (some of the smartest in Latin America if you ask me), and don't end up resembling either of these:


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Photo © Charly Diaz Azcue
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Photo © Ander Aguirre



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Photo © BAIRES Aviation Photography
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Photo © JMG - BAIRES Aviation Photography



So here's to:


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Photo © Javier F. Bobadilla - IBERIAN SPOTTERS
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Photo © Phil Jones



Saludos,

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4964 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4334 times:

Maybe this is a stupid question for which I apologiza in advance, but according to Avion Revue (international, September edition) Southern is in a very bed shape economically, so how are they going to afford to buy or lease planes?
saludos



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4326 times:

EZEIZA:

I would ask the same question, and in fact, to be precise, why is that BOTH Southern Winds AND Aerovip are in such poor shape? How can nothing be going right for them? Why the stagnation?

Saludos,

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4964 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4319 times:

ZXV:
Honestly I don't know. I think southern winds offers a great option, not only for national flights, but most of all for EZE-MAD. I travelled with them a few times on that route and the overall service was not bad at all, and the prices were thye best on the market (520 € return flight). However, on most of these flights the plane was half empty. Is it a matter of bad marketing or is it that the average passenger prefers to fly with 'established' airlines even though they have to pay more in many cases?

saludos



Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4226 times:

EZEIZA:

I don't know, there are quite a few (abstract) Southern Winds ads in La Nación almost daily, but ironically, the 767 service to Madrid is not one I've ever seen. The adverts are usually regional, like "Tucumán, Salta, Jujuy", or "Chapelco, Neuquén, Bariloche" or "Comodoro Rivadavia, Río Gallegos, El Calafate". I don't know the load factors on the domestic flights; I flew on SW from MDQ-AEP in late February, but the summer was already winding-down so I wasn't particularly surprised that the aircraft was only about half-full.

The trouble with MAD is that few travel agencies have even heard of Southern Winds, so you'll never get someone saying "well, I can get you US$800 with Iberia but US$500 with Southern Winds". No, you have to specifically ask them to type in the airline in the database, and often they can't find it. Keenly Travel in Argentina can book you Southern Winds to MAD sans problems.

Southern Winds only real publicity seems to come from word of mouth. The good thing is, they are as you say, "not bad at all". The bad thing is, who is going to believe that? Not many. My godfather thought I was pulling his leg when I told him about SW. Well, he just took them to Spain and back, and apologised profusely for not believing me. Oh well, when cynicism about Argentine products dies down a bit (if ever!), SW will hopefully stand a better chance, if they live to see that point in the pretty distant future...

LONG LIVE SOUTHERN WINDS!!!

Saludos,

ZXV

P.S. Didn't you just love the TWA life-jackets in the 767?! Speaking of which, my flight in late-May was almost full.

P.P.S. Does anyone know if Air Europa still fly MAD-LGW?




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4109 times:

A small update:

  • Southern Winds appear to have dropped the weekly MIA service (codeshared w/ AA).

  • As of yet, Virgin cannot confirm any contract with Southern Winds.


  • Fingers crossed...

    ZXV




    How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
    User currently offlineARGinMIA From Argentina, joined Nov 2001, 487 posts, RR: 5
    Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4098 times:

    They are not VIRGIN's aircraft.. they belong to Mr.Rasnavad.. there was a set back early last week.. but its been fixed.. so far so good.. I'll keep you guys posted


    Alto.. Mucho mas alto.. hasta la cumbre
    User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3330 posts, RR: 9
    Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4066 times:

    TF-ARA had an unusual 3-class 201-seat layout, with Business, Surf (Premium Economy) and Economy--the latter with 35-inch pitch.

    Would you happen to know the seat pitch on CC-CRH?

    Southern Winds appear to have dropped the weekly MIA service (codeshared w/ AA).

    Is there any chance of A4 returning to MIA with the 763, or not?

    And is there anyone who can explain the whole CAT II restriction on Argentina? I'm quite perplexed by this.

    Good day!



    User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
    Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4064 times:

    OB-1504:

    Would you happen to know the seat pitch on CC-CRH?

    Maybe an inch or so less. LA's 767s are 219-seaters, as far as I know.

    Is there any chance of A4 returning to MIA with the 763, or not?

    Not with an Argentine-registered aircraft, or at least until CAT I is reinstated. Remember TF-ARA and TF-ARB had no problems, for obvious reasons.

    And is there anyone who can explain the whole CAT II restriction on Argentina? I'm quite perplexed by this.

    So am I. It is one the most ridiculous, proposterous and fraudulent rulings passed on Argentine aviation, and an insult to Argentine mechanics from LADE to Aerolíneas, who have always maintained high safety standards, and have few accidents to show for this.
    Basically, during the nadir of the crisis, around July 2002, some FAA prats paid a visit to Argentina chose to put 2 and 2 together and conclude that the economic situation had led to an alarming decline in air safety in Argentina, such that it fell short of ICAO standards, when perhaps the opposite was true (the one serious incident in 2002 was courtesy of a Chilean saboteur in SCL).

    Here are some of the specific (known) consequences of a CAT II downgrade:

  • CAT II certification implies a lower safety level, generating severe restrictions on the current operations of all of the country's flag carriers with flight operations to the US.


  • Charming.

  • CAT II limits the country's air industry's growth potential to key markets. Expansion of flag carrier's services is severely restricted and puts the flag carriers at a significant competitive disadvantage vis-à-vis the flag carriers of CAT I countries.


  • How very civilised.

  • Each CAT II country's current airline service will be restricted to present levels. Route growth to US markets is suspended.


  • Smacks of Monroe.

  • Restricted ability to obtain commercial or code-share agreements with US carriers. Limits alliance development.


  • Woohoo.

  • Foreign commercial and tourism visitor decline due to limited airline capacity and perception of danger or inadequacy. Reduction in foreign investment related to CAT II designation. Travel and tourism industry stagnates.


  • Allowing for a prompt and solid recovery, of course.

  • Stagnation or negative growth of the country's air carriers. Operating cost escalation (increased surveillance on wet-leases).


  • To give you an idea, Argentina's fellow members of the CAT II "losers" club include:

    Bangladesh
    Belize
    Côte d'Ivoire
    Dominican Republic
    Ecuador
    Gambia
    Greece
    Guatemala
    Guyana
    Haiti
    Honduras
    Nicaragua
    Panama
    Paraguay
    P.D.R. Congo
    Surinam
    Swaziland
    Venezuela
    Uruguay
    Zimbabwe

    Note the conspicuous absence of Indonesia, Peru, the Philippines and South Korea from this list, to name but a few...

    It makes for frustrating reading and I'm sure Argentina's recovery has been slowed by these pointless restrictions, but there are strong signs that an upgrade to CAT I is finally imminent.

    Saludos,

    ZXV

    P.S. I will try to find the exact link announcing the downgrade.




    How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
    User currently offlineARGinMIA From Argentina, joined Nov 2001, 487 posts, RR: 5
    Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3918 times:

    LVZXV whats the latest on going back to cat 1?


    Alto.. Mucho mas alto.. hasta la cumbre
    User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
    Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3894 times:

    ARGinMIA:

    Last I heard, an FAA delegation were already in Argentina. If they've already left, then they should reach a conclusion by Christmas, though frankly I think the whole CAT II episode could have been avoided and was the product of poor judgement. Just my 2 centavos!

    Saludos,

    ZXV




    How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
    User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2407 posts, RR: 24
    Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3814 times:

    ZXV:

    when perhaps the opposite was true (the one serious incident in 2002 was courtesy of a Chilean saboteur in SCL).

    Just one question:

    ¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿¿??????????


    What?

    Regards )(



    in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
    25 Post contains images LVZXV : Arcano: 18 February 2002. An AR 732 (LV-ZRE) was flying from SCL to EZE, when over the Andes, the fuselage suffered a major depressurisation, courtesy
    26 Arcano : ZXV: I'm sorry, I find that very hard to believe. Who said that? SCL has an inicredible safety standard, and that includes the personnel. Aircrafts in
    27 Post contains links LVZXV : I hadn't noticed this update but it's dated November 16 so still pretty recent: http://www.clarin.com/diario/2004/11/16/elpais/p-01901.htm EL EMPRESAR
    28 EZEIZA : Hola ZXV! Yes, I agree that 7 747's seems a bit too ambitous, but i guess all we can do is wait and see. If it does happen though, I can't wait to see
    29 Chiguire : 6,5 million $ are not a lot....especially when talking about such a big deal. I have seen smaller operations lose much more money in a few months. And
    30 LVZXV : IF SW paints the 747 in their standard colours, they will be some of the smartest in the world. BUT, the overall white liveries applied to the last 2
    31 EZEIZA : "Destinations? Reading between the lines, and based on previous SW announcements, expect FCO, JFK, MEX and MIA to start with, and, if the remaining 74
    32 Arcano : ... more than ambicious, it sounds a little improvised for me. Have those guys any idea how many jumbos Argentina needs for flying abroad??? I know Ar
    33 Marambio : Good afternoon gentlemen, Some minor corrections and opinions: First of all, AR is currently operating two 747-475s and three 747-287Bs. LV-OOZ is lea
    34 TBCITDG : In addition to that, one has to include the current success of AR's operations to SYD. I am sure that during he summer months AR would have no problem
    35 Arcano : Marambio I think I heard some of Marsans plans for AR to complete a fleet of 17 744 in the coming years. Maybe ZXVm the "fleet expert" of the forum ca
    36 Derico : As with any airline these days, getting stronger means little to nothing. How many times have we seen airlines putting a face of expansion only to fal
    37 LVZXV : Arcano: Ok, "sabotage" was the wrong word, but as Marambio highlighted, the authorities at SCL shouldn't have allowed the operator in question near th
    38 Marambio : Good evening gentlemen, How about restarting the MDZ-COR line, since only AR does a prefunctory service of it. Or maybe even a MDZ-UAQ-COR run. I real
    39 LVZXV : Marambio: A4, as you know, abandoned their "cordobes" origins in order to survive; I'm still surprised at how poor load factors are from the city. AR
    40 Post contains links and images LVZXV : Seems like these are the 2 moth-eaten 737s (LV-YXB, YZA) A4 plan to incorporate in the coming months (foreground): View Large View MediumPhoto © BAIR
    41 Pzurita1 : LVZXV, You wrote: "Destinations? Reading between the lines, and based on previous SW announcements, expect FCO, JFK, MEX and MIA to start with" I thin
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