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Political No No Routes That Would Make Lots Of $  
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26450 posts, RR: 75
Posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5611 times:

So, I was just thinking, what does everyone here think would be a non-stop or direct route from the US (or anywhere else for that matter) that would make lots of money for airlines, except that politics get in the way. This is not a political thread.

I think that a massive money maker would be LAX-THR, given the huge Iranian community in Southern California (and CA in general) and their disposable income. I am sure that at least 2 744s could be filled a day between the 2 cities (LAX-THR is shorter than LAX-MEL, so a non-stop on a 744 should not be an issue). European airlines have been making tons on connecting traffic for years (why do you think LH and KL fly widebodies, and SR flew an MD-11 until their widebody shortage stopped the THR route? Full of people on flights from LA). Also, who has that route authority from the US?


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5562 times:

The best example i can think of was SAA during the old days.

SAA flights weren't allowed to fly across central africa and had to chart up the coast in international waters, stopping in Portugal(correct me if im wrong) for fuel before continuing onto heathrow. At that time, BA made a packet on this route because it could fly a more direct route (shaving hours and hours off the trip) at a premium price.

The closets situation i can think of Today is maybe J'berg to Tel aviv. There is a significant Israelie population in South Africa, be EL AL aircraft are not allowed to overfly Arab airspace (unless they want a missile up their ass). I think SAA make a bit on these flights.

However today this industry is pretty damn competive, so when an opportunity exists, it is usually snapped up pretty damn fast.


User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26450 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5550 times:

Oh, I know that chances are snapped up fast, but a non-stop flight 14-15 hour flight LAX-THR-LAX is a lot more attractive than 24-30 hours in transit, and that is what I am looking at. I can see your point on the El Al/SAA flights. Any one else want to weigh in?


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineKEno From Malaysia, joined Feb 2004, 1842 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5537 times:

That's easy. Taiwan to anywhere in China Big grin

User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5542 times:

n1120a,
if we had diplomatic ties to thr, im sure co would be chomping at the bit to open up the mid east as they have conquered europe with the fleet of 757s. one route that i know would be a cash cow would be south fla to hav, until the govt gets their heads out of the sand and accept cuba like they have accepted other communist countries(china,viet-nam).......



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26450 posts, RR: 75
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5525 times:

Ah, yes, Cuba. That would be a big market. Not only South Florida, but tourism would abound. I bet AA would mint money with A300s on that route, even on short routes like MIA-HAV.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5517 times:

THR-JFK
THR-LAX
THR-YUL
BEY-JFK
BEY-DTW
BEY-YUL
DAM-JFK
DAM-DTW



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineLymanm From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5509 times:

Montreal - Beruit. In fact, AC was ever so close to starting it, and it had apparently sold quite well before the government, under pressure from our American neighboUrs, suspended AC's authority on the route.

Considering how many American troops are in Iraq, USA-Baghdad may do well for military VFR. However, that route wouldn't work more for security reasons rather than political no no's.



buhh bye
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26450 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5510 times:

How about THR-IAH? That is also a big O&D market, with many Iranians in IAH. That could be a CO route, 1-2X 772ER each day.

Also, aren't airlines allowed to operate "charters" (that seem to have a schedule) Taiwan-Mainland China?

Oh, a bit off topic, but can any one from New Orleans guess how many people will be flying MSY-SFO-SGN with UA?



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLY7E7 From Israel, joined Jun 2004, 2249 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5485 times:

The closets situation i can think of Today is maybe J'berg to Tel aviv.

LY does it.

JFK/EWR/LGA - HAV would be a huge success.



2 things are endless: ignorance and space
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5479 times:

Lymanm,

Indeed. It was pulled exactly one day before the route was about to start! What a pain...

The flight was instead routed to operate YUL-FRA and Air Canada chartered Lufthansa A321s to take the passengers onward to BEY. These Lufthansa flights were in addition to the daily flight that Lufthansa operates into Beirut.

Some passengers were also booked on MEA from Frankfurt because the Lufthansa A321s couldn't take all the passengers of the Air Canada B767-300ERs.

I can't imagine the mess the passengers must have been through and the frustration they felt...

A few of my relatives almost booked on that flight. Thankfully, flights were full and they were UNABLE to book on them. The fact that the flights were full and unable to book on them saved them a big headache.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5433 times:

Re: The closets situation i can think of Today is maybe J'berg to Tel aviv. There is a significant Israelie population in South Africa, be EL AL aircraft are not allowed to overfly Arab airspace (unless they want a missile up their ass). I think SAA make a bit on these flights.

There have been flights between SA and Israel since the 1940's - during apartheid, both SA and LY operated the route. LY routed down the Red Sea and round the horn of Africa, stopping in NBO before continuing on - their flight took about 11 hours I believe. SA routed the flight round West Africa, with stops in LIS can FCO - this flight used to take 17 or 18 hours I believe. SA stopped flying the route in the 90's and now codeshares on LY (who now operate the route nonstop).

Re: SAA flights weren't allowed to fly across central africa and had to chart up the coast in international waters, stopping in Portugal(correct me if im wrong) for fuel before continuing onto heathrow.

SA flights to Europe round West Africa used to stop in a few different places eg. to start with LAD, then when Angola became independent, the flights would stop in ABJ, LPA or SID (the airport at Ilha do Sal was paid for by the South African goverment to provide a stopover point for SA flights). In the late 80's SA bought 747-300's that could fly JNB-LHR non-stop, and upgraded the engines on their 747-200's to allow them to operate nonstop to Europe as well.


User currently offlineJohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2589 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5415 times:

Pyongyang-Seoul (until the day when high-speed trains ply between the two cities).

User currently offlinePlanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5360 times:

I beleive that flights between MIA and HAV are operated per a charter basis with approval from the US Treasury Department. I know that there's also a twice weekly LAX-HAV charter operated by Grupo TACA. While these flights are considered charter, for all intensive purposes I think they're scheduled because they occur with regular frequencies. The only draw back is that you have to make bookings through an authorized travel agent and not with the airlines directly.

Indeed, if any Chinese carrier could begin flying non-stop between mainland China and Taiwan, major bank could be made. Tens of thousands of Taiwanese travel to the mainland each year, primarily for business and investment, and have to transit through Hong Kong.

I always tbought that a direct link between THR and LAX would be extremely profitable. Especially if the flight operated via a European city not already connected to LA (VIE, MXP, BRU, CPH) and the flight had 5th Freedom. It would be awesome if Iran Air began twice weekly direct service with their 747SPs! I'd be all over it.

Aparthied SAA had a funky route map according to my old timetable. Because of the flight restrictions over much of central/north Africa, all flights to Europe
skirted the west coast of the continent stopping in either LAD, SID. or Las Palmas. This was just prior to their receiving their 747SPs. SAA's Flt. 266 from JNB to ATH was routes JNB-SID-LIS-FCO-ATH. This was in 1978. Even though SAA had 747-100s at the time, they opted to use the 707 on the route.












User currently offlineLtbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13095 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5228 times:

Non-stop or 1 stop flights operated by a USA based airline:
from JFK/EWR, ATL, Washington, DC, Houston to Nigeria, and other western African oil countries,
From JFK/EWR or Washington DC to Syria, Lebanon, or anyplace in the Middle East, Northern African countries, including Egypt (besides Israel)
For some countries though, you need to deal with becoming a terror target, terrible corruption, theft of baggage, difficulties in getting good help, getting people to work for an American company, problems with catering services. Also on flights from the USA, probably yield problems as many looking for cheap flights, having huge oversized/overweight baggage (although excess baggage fees could be another $ maker)


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7519 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5065 times:

I'm surprised that no one has yet mentioned this one:

WN offering service to all of its cities from DAL.  Laugh out loud



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineJet-lagged From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 872 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5014 times:


I think Keno is right.
Especially TPE-PVG and TPE-FOC

How about
IAD-TPE-PEK-TPE-IAD hehehe


User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6565 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4917 times:

How many people will fly MSY-SFO-SGN with UA? Probably several per flight. We get a lot of Asian traffic out of here thanks in large part to the port. Many workers on the freighters that dock in the Port of New Orleans after a long transoceanic voyage reside in Asia. And of course, they fly out of MSY, after being cleared by customs on board the ships. MSY doesn't have an overly large Asian population base (the largest group being Vietnamese, with around 10,000 or so), but we do get a decent amount of Asian traffic for a city our size. Have a look at the passenger manifest on United's SFO nonstop (and their morning LAX flight) and you'll see what i'm talking about.

User currently offlineAa717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4904 times:

DTW-Baghdad...........TC


FL450, M.85
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4828 times:

This may be a naive question (at least before I reach my theraputic level of caffine), but why would the US object to flights between North America and BEY these days? I can understand why during the civil war, or was that when AC tried to start the service?

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4792 times:

can any one from New Orleans guess how many people will be flying MSY-SFO-SGN with UA?

We get a lot of Asian traffic out of here thanks in large part to the port. Many workers on the freighters that dock in the Port of New Orleans after a long transoceanic voyage reside in Asia. And of course, they fly out of MSY, after being cleared by customs on board the ships. MSY doesn't have an overly large Asian population base (the largest group being Vietnamese, with around 10,000 or so), but we do get a decent amount of Asian traffic for a city our size. Have a look at the passenger manifest on United's SFO nonstop (and their morning LAX flight) and you'll see what i'm talking about.



Also, another flight you two might not have thought of is AA's MSY-MIA. Ever noticed how many Vietnamese board that flight??

MSY-MIA-CDG on AA, a which is interlined with VN at CDG. It's rather popular amoung them.

....course, if we had our own #$%^&@! CDG connection it'd be even easier-- but that's a whole nother (not to mention recurrent) discussion Big grin Big grin


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4776 times:

Ctbarnes,

This may be a naive question (at least before I reach my theraputic level of caffine), but why would the US object to flights between North America and BEY these days?

They are still mad about the bombing of the Marine Barracks in 1983 that resulted in the death of 283 marines. It was an unfortunate and sad event, but that is war. War is never pretty.

Another reason is to pressure Lebanon to sign peace with Israel, but Lebanon will not sign any peace treaty with Israel until the Palestinian/Israeli conflict is solved and the 400,000 Palestinian refugees in Lebanon are allowed to return to their homeland.

They are also trying to pressure Lebanon to disarm Hezbollah which is an active political party that maintains a small militia in the south of Lebanon. The US regards them as a terrorist group, while the Lebanese people regard them as a legitimate resistence movement because they helped liberated southern Lebanon from Israeli occupation in July 2000 after intense fighting with Israeli military forces.

I can understand why during the civil war, or was that when AC tried to start the service?

AC tried to start the service in summer 2003 as a 3x weekly B767-300ER service from Montreal (YUL).

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4685 times:

Thanks BA!

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineWdleiser From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 961 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4008 times:

I could have sworn that United had flights from Miami to Havana in the 90's, just US Citizens werent allowed on it. I am probably wrong as i am wrong alot, but i could have sworn this.

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9619 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3864 times:

I fully agree with KEno in that TPE-China would be a hugely profitable route. The people on that route now have to switch airlines, or take very weird bookings through HKG, SEL. A nonstop flight would be HUGE, but is politically unlikely in the near future. 1 stops are as close as you can get.




If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
25 Moman : Tampa-Havana Miami-Havana Orlando-Havana Tallahassee-Havana ATL-Havana Jacksonville-Havana I'm with the rest of y'all, waiting for the day I can tour
26 Post contains images Trickijedi : Pyongyang-Seoul (until the day when high-speed trains ply between the two cities). ...or Pyongyang to its major "neighboring" cities as well - NRT, HK
27 Expressjetphx : I'm very surprised that no one has mentioned US-China flights. While I know that currently UA and NW have route authority, and that more may be coming
28 Moose1226 : I think an LY IAD-TLV service would be profitable, because I'm sure that a great deal of the people taking LY's NYC-TLV service and CO's EWR-TLV servi
29 N1120a : US airlines are allowed to fly charters to Cuba, but can't fly scheduled service. Also, US citizens are allowed to travel to Cuba if they have a licen
30 Zippyjet : BWI/DCA or IAD -HAV JFK/EWR/LGA-HAV To a much lesser extent, FL commencing nonstop BWI-MDW On this last one you may ask why? Because there is a so cal
31 N1120a : MFW? I guess WN might approve, knowing that FL is taking over for TZ, since they don't seem to mind competition.
32 Jcs17 : You know, whenever the embargo is lifted, and normal US-Cuba flights are able to resume, after a while, its not going to be exactly a slam dunk in ter
33 Post contains links and images Ua777222 : View Large View MediumPhoto © Steven Fenster ??? The AC a/c is ok but why is the US Flag allowed? Even if it's part of the normal c/s. Thanks ag
34 N1120a : The US flag is on that AC plane promoting cooperation between neighbors and allies. That is why it is there.
35 Ua777222 : What about the CO a/c. That a/c has an American Flag on the tail and if I recall correctly that's a big no no..... let alone the airline it's self and
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