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AF-KLM Largest Market Share To Latin America?  
User currently offlineDakota From Netherlands, joined Feb 2000, 148 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5767 times:

Air France-KLM claims in a press release that they have the largest market share (20 %) of all European airlines on routes to Latin America. But is their market share indeed larger than Iberia, that is known for its specialisation on this market? Anyone with reliable information about market shares?


Press release:

Air France-KLM: Europe's Leading Airline in Latin America with nearly a 20% market share

Air France-KLM is the leading European carrier to and from Latin America, especially for premium passengers, with 180 weekly frequencies including 11 exclusive Latin American destinations. With a capacity of nearly 44,000 seats per week both ways, the Group has close to a 20% market share, far ahead of its competition.

The Air France-KLM merger has enabled two combined networks to be organized around two of Europe's most efficient hubs namely Paris-Charles de Gaulle and Amsterdam Schiphol, thus providing customers with an enhanced choice of destinations and flight times.

To Caracas, Air France and KLM have coordinated their flight schedules
with a daily service on departure from Paris-CDG operated in A340s. On flights to Sao Paulo, and to Lima, KLM has increased flight frequencies from five to six a week.

Starting on 1 November on flights to Rio, Air France will be operating a Boeing 747-400 instead of an Airbus A340, thus increasing available capacity to this destination by more than 60%, for a total of more than 780 seats per day (and over 5,500 passengers per week). Today Air France has also singled out Rio for the launch of its new private lounge for first class passengers travelling in 'l'Espace Première' and business travellers in 'l'Espace Affaires' and also those passengers from equivalent cabin classes with SkyTeam member airlines.

This is the first lounge to be doted with Air France's new travel concept for the customers' benefit. Fitted with wi-fi (wireless broadband internet connexion), it has seating for 66 passengers and represents a 460,000 euro investment.

These innovations underscore the confidence Air France-KLM has in
Latin American operations.

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7415 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5682 times:

If they say so, AKL must be N°1 for something in South America ...

In terms of weekly number of flights or/and number of destinations served, I would think IBERIA is the N°1 !

AF in N°2 behind TAP for Brazil.

In terms of capacity, number of seats offered, or "premium class" PAX AFKL is maybe N°1.

In South America, AF's winter program from CDG is :

CAY = 1xDaily nonstop A343
CCS = 1xDaily nonstop A343
BOG = 5xWeekly nonstop A343
GRU = 1xDaily nonstop B772ER
GIG = 1xDaily nonstop B744
EZE = 1xDaily nonstop B772ER
SCL = 1xDaily 1-stop (EZE) B772ER

you must to this the KL flights from AMS...



User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5647 times:

FLYSSC:

So let's add KLM flights to South America on top of AF flights which you mentioned in your post:

LIM: 1 x daily MD11;
GRU: 6 x weekly B772ER;
PBM: 3 x weekly MD11;
UIO: 3 x weekly MD11;
GYE: 3 x weekly MD11;

In addition, KL has an agreement with JJ, which distributes its onward passengers from GRU to GIG and EZE.

Note that my flights above, including FLYSSC in the previous pots, are related to SOUTH AMERICA only, and thus do not include Central America + Mexico, and the Caribbean. In these destinations, AF and KL have flights to the following cities:

Mexico City (AF and KL)
Aruba (KL)
Curacao (KL)
Bonaire (KL)
Guatemala City (AF)
San Pedro Sula (AF)
San Salvador (AF)

Regards,
Hardi


User currently offlineMarambio From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5557 times:

In addition, KL has an agreement with JJ, which distributes its onward passengers from GRU to GIG and EZE.

Add to that AF's CDG-EZE, which now is codeshared with KLM.

Groetjes uit Argentinië,
Marambio (de enige Nederlandstalige Argentijn)  Big grin



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlineMdutch From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 146 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5533 times:


KLM flies:

LIM 6x weekly MD11
UIO/GYE 5x weekly MD11
PBM 3x weekly 744
GRU 6x weekly 772


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5507 times:

Mdutch:

Thanks for correcting the info on my post about KL flights to South America.

Marambio:

I would say that if you fly from AMS to EZE you will experience the two best airlines in the world: KL and JJ  Smile

Groetjes.

Hardi






User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5498 times:

OK. Here are all flights operated by AF and KL in South America:

AF:
GRU = 1xDaily nonstop B772ER
GIG = 1xDaily nonstop B744
CAY = 1xDaily nonstop A343
CCS = 1xDaily nonstop A343
BOG = 5xWeekly nonstop A343
EZE = 1xDaily nonstop B772ER
SCL = 1xDaily 1-stop (EZE) B772ER

KL:
GRU = 6x weekly 772
(GRU-GIG and GRU-EZE = codeshare with JJ, A320)
LIM = 6x weekly MD11
UIO/GYE = 5x weekly MD11
PBM = 3x weekly 744

Hardi




User currently offlineMarambio From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5493 times:

Marambio:

I would say that if you fly from AMS to EZE you will experience the two best airlines in the world: KL and JJ

Groetjes.

Hardi


Ik vlieg van Buenos Aires naar Amsterdam elk drie maanden, maar met Lufthansa. Ik ben en Lufthansa Senator, en willen meer miles sparen!  Big grin

I fly from Buenos Aires to Amsterdam every 3 months but with Lufthansa. I am an LH Senator and want to earn more miles!  Big grin

Saludos,
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offline757MDE From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 1753 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5488 times:

I still would like to see the same report regarding Iberia, I'm not too sure og AF/KLM being the leader (although their share is quite big, that's a fact).

BTW: Didn't AF fly to CCS with A330?



I gladly accept donations to pay for flight hours! This thing draws man...
User currently offlineMdutch From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 146 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5478 times:



757MDE, you're right about the fact that AF used the A330 to CCS but they changed it to a daily A340 when KLM ceased operations to CCS 15th of sept.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5477 times:

Marambio:

Do you have relatives here in the Netherlands? Let me know next time you arein AMS, ok?

757MDE:

Don't forget that the report was about Latin Amerinca. So you would need to add the following destinations:

Mexico City (AF and KL)
Aruba (KL)
Curacao (KL)
Bonaire (KL)
Guatemala City (AF)
San Pedro Sula (AF)
San Salvador (AF)

In a more general note, it's amazing to see how AF has established a strong-hold in Brazil, operating daily non-stop flights to both GRU (777ER) and GIG (now served with the 747-400!!).

Indeed, I've read reports that the brand new Air France VIP Lounge in GIG is GORGEOUS!! AF has been flying daily non-stop GIG-CDG since 2001. It is now reeping the benefits of its commitment to the "wonderful city"!

Hardi


User currently offlineMdutch From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 146 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5463 times:

These are Iberia's destinations in South America:


Buenos Aires
Rio de Janeiro Sao Paulo
Santiago de Chile
Bogota
Guayaquil Quito
Asuncion
Lima
Montevideo
Caracas

with the following as a codeshare on other airlines:

Córdoba * Mendoza *

Antofagasta * Concepción * Easter Island *
Puerto Montt * Punta Arenas *

Cali * Cartagena de Indias *
Medellin * Pereira *

Anybody know the days & a/c on these routes?


User currently offlineMarambio From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5418 times:

Marambio:

Do you have relatives here in the Netherlands? Let me know next time you arein AMS, ok?


My mother lives in The Hague, so I usually go there everytime I have a holiday. I think I'll head up to AMS by February. We'll keep in touch anyway!

Anybody know the days & a/c on these routes?

MAD-EZE is 2x daily A346/743

COR and MDZ are operated by U-Air, an Uruguayan LCC, from MVD (Montevideo). Flights are 4x weekly with F100.

Saludos,
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5413 times:

These are Iberia's destinations in South America

....Asuncion...

This is a TAM code-shared flight also. No IB metal on ASU nowadays.



SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineEmirates Skies From Australia, joined Nov 2001, 171 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5404 times:


DOES AF fly its own metal into GUAtemala, San Salvador & San Pedro Sula?

THX.



Take nothing but photos, leave nothing but footprints
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5394 times:

What stupid thread!!!!
Everybody, and each of us here, Knows IB is the European carrier in leadership to and from LatinAmerica (Mexico, CentralAmerica/Caribbean and South America)


User currently offlineAer From Guatemala, joined Mar 2004, 1048 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5392 times:

AF doesn't fly to GUA. It never has. KL used to fly to La Aurora as an extension of its MEX flight.


nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
User currently offlineEmirates Skies From Australia, joined Nov 2001, 171 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5377 times:


Muchas gracias, Aer.

I've been to GUAtemala for 6 weeks in 1998. I flew in on KLM's B744 from AMS, with a stop in MEX. Had a gr8 time. Can't w8 to go back. I have a Maltese friend living near Jalapa and another in Jalpatagua. I love the Pacific Coast, as well as Tikal and La Antigua. I flew Taca to Flores airport & back.

DOES AF fly to San Salvador / San Pedro Sula? I guess that these are codeshare AM-operated flights.

Hasta pronto!  Wink/being sarcastic




Take nothing but photos, leave nothing but footprints
User currently offlineGoAibusGo From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 275 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5337 times:

Hardiwv,

Don't forget SXM- St. Maarten/ Martin (AF and KL) and the other AF destinations in the Caribbean, like Martinique and Guadaloupe.


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2574 posts, RR: 31
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5315 times:

Hardiwv,

Don't forget SXM- St. Maarten/ Martin (AF and KL) and the other AF destinations in the Caribbean, like Martinique and Guadaloupe.


I believe the Caribbean except (Cuba and Dom. Rep) arent part of Latin America, are they?


User currently offlineFyano773 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 784 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5309 times:

Don't forget to account flights to Mexico:

AF 14X CDG-MEX 744 (7X w/AM metal [767]).
KL 7X AMS-MEX 744 (Combi?).

IB 11X/12X MAD-MEX A343 & A346.
IB ¿?x MAD-MIA-CUN.

Fyano  Smile


User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2409 posts, RR: 23
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5286 times:

Mdutch:
with the following as a codeshare on other airlines:

Córdoba * Mendoza *

Antofagasta * Concepción * Easter Island *
Puerto Montt * Punta Arenas *

Anybody know the days & a/c on these routes?


Hi, these routes are codeshared via SCL with Lan Chile.

Antofagasta, Concepcion, Puerto Montt and Punta Arenas (Chile) daily, several times a day, with a mix of 320s, 319s and 737, all of them in full coach configuration. Some flights to Punta Arenas (PUQ) have been flown by 767s.

Cordoba and Mendoza (Argentina): COR 7x, and MDZ 14x, both served by 732s

Easter Island (Chile): 4 times/week, on a 763. This flights continues to Tahiti (PPT).

Hope this helps!

Regards )( Arcano





in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5278 times:


Cali * Cartagena de Indias *
Medellin * Pereira *

Anybody know the days & a/c on these routes?



To complete Arcano's list of operations codeshared by Iberia, I'll add...

Cali is served 12 times daily from BOG in a mix of 757s and MD83s

Medellin is served 12/13 times daily from BOG in a mix of 757s and MD83s

Cartagena is served 7 times daily from BOG in an all-MD83 service

Pereira is served 6 times daily from BOG in an even mix of Fokker-50 and MD83s.


--------------------------------------------------------


As for the other routes, all are flown daily except for Montevideo and Rio. Buenos Aires, as mentioned, is served twice daily.

All routes are operated with A340-300 aircraft, except for EZE, which is served by 747s and A340-600 and LIM, which, until last time I checked, also received the A340-600.



SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33083 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5275 times:

Guatemala City (AF)
San Pedro Sula (AF)
San Salvador (AF)


Air France does not fly here. These are codeshare destinations, served with Grupo TACA via Miami.




a.
User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5263 times:

Sounds logical to me. AF/KL tend to fly with larger a/c to most of their LatAm destinations as opposed to IB A340s. To MEX we are talking about 14x 744 vs. IB 10-12x A340... big difference to one of the key markets in the region... maybe the situation is similar in EZE and GRU?

25 Hardiwv : Mdutch: GRU and GIG are operated as non-stop flights by IB, and not as part of the same flight: MAD-GRU: daily, A340 MAD-GIG: 5 x week, A340 SOUTHAMER
26 Post contains images FLYSSC : Anxelba has maybe overreacted... but don't be hard with him ! he is not completely wrong... As I mentionned in my previous post, each airline can be n
27 Jopavon : What stupid thread!!!! Everybody, and each of us here, Knows IB is the European carrier in leadership to and from LatinAmerica (Mexico, CentralAmerica
28 Dakota : Jopavon: Thanks for your information about market shares. But can you say where on the Iberia website you found these statistics?
29 Hardiwv : Lets's put things into perspective: IB (own metal) operations in South America: EZE GRU GIG SCL BOG UIO GYE LIM MVD CCS AF-KL (own metal) operations i
30 Dakota : Hardiwv, I think you forget to mention Central America and the Caribbean, because the press release is about Latin America. Iberia has just shut down
31 Post contains links Jopavon : Dakota: It is in the shareholders section. This is the link http://grupo.iberia.es/invertors/presentacion/presentacion.html. Then take a look at the r
32 Post contains images Lima : Do you think that if eventually Air France wants to increase frequencies in certain routes it would use KLM to do so? For example in Brazil or eventua
33 Post contains images Hardiwv : Hi, Lima So another Dutch-Argentinian on board? Let me know your next time in AMS, so we could meet up! What is your assessment on the KLM-JJ flight A
34 Post contains images Kl911 : Since our future Queen is an Argentinian beauty everybody starts talking Dutch in Argentina, so funny... Should be good for Tourisme both ways. KL911
35 Post contains images Marambio : Goeie middag mensen! Dag Marambio, en welkom! Ik vlieg ook regelmatig tussen Nederland en Argentinie, twee of drie keer per jaar. Meestal met de KLM (
36 Post contains images Lima : Hoi Hardwig, Thank you. No, I am only from Argentina but I am living in Maastricht. Snap je? I go sometimes to Amsterdam would be nice to meet you too
37 Hardiwv : Marambio: RG is still flying daily the route AMS-CDG-GRU-POA. But now the use the MD11 instead of the 777. So service has certainly deteriorated. I th
38 Stock1985 : Can the United States not support any nonstops to CAY or PBM. It just struck me as interesting that KL operates a 744 3X from AMS to PBM and AF operat
39 Hardiwv : Stock1985: PBM and CAY are served by AF and KL for one reason: historic bacground. PBM (Surinam) is a former Dutch colony, and CAY (French Guyana) is
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