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Mexico Cintra News  
User currently offlineAnthsaun From Mexico, joined Apr 2004, 544 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4951 times:

Today in the morning I was listening to the news by Pedro Ferris de Con in IMAGEN 90.5 FM and the spot was on CINTRA announcing that after negotiations its airlines will be offered for sale next year; MX as a single airline, AM as a single airline, and AEROCARIBE & AEROLITORAL together as one airline. So CINTRA will sell three separate airlines.


Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2443 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4838 times:

Wrong!!!!!!!!!!!

As I said before, AM and MX will be merged and sold as one entity. It is the only way to get some money from them. The plan worked perfectly... by getting rid of Fernando Sanchez Ugarte as president of the CFC (Comision Federal de Competencia) and appointing Eduardo Perez Mota, President Fox and IPAB will now be able to sell a monopoly. CFC approved today the merger of AM and MX. The integration process will start immediately by merging the support areas (Finance, Human Resources, IT, etc)...

More info:

http://www.cintra.com.mx/espanol/accionist/boletines/boletin25Oct04.htm

In order to make people think that AM and MX will not be a monopoly, they will sell the two regional airlines (AeroLitoral and AeroCaribe) as another entity... yeah please!! we are not that stupid!!!


User currently offlineAM001 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 221 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4833 times:
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This is sure going to change the way we travel in Mexico...
How do you think this will impact the common user?
Any thoughts on who of them (AM/MX, QA/5D) will prevail? (not whishes! serious opinions!)
How about AM/SkyTeam?

What is going on???  Wow!

Regards,

AM001

P.S.: Rojo.. nice timing.





[Edited 2004-10-27 00:59:18]


"Je vole car cela libere mon esprit de la tyrannie des choses insignifiantes" - St. Exupery
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5217 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4795 times:

Wow! Finally!

In the last months everything was pointing in this direction!

Any airline you were flying with, either MX or AM you won miles on your FFP and more similar things leading that were leading to a merger.

Very interestings at the end I must say!

What will happen with the AIRBUS FLEET? or the BOEING FLEET?!!

MX is getting A318s! AM is getting extra NEW B737s! QA is getting MX F100s... and 5D is getting NEW EMBRAERS! WTF!

Im sure this change will beneffit mexican users!

Im also wondering what would the MEX-LAX and other routes will be in the near future? If MX and AM merge and stay as one airline there will be a lot of room in several routes for other mexican carriers!

I'll later post each airline's current fleet.

Ricardo APM




Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineUnicorn From Vatican City, joined Nov 2003, 102 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4785 times:

Spain's La voz de Asturias reports that Iberia is very interested in investing in Aeroméxico and Mexicana, if the planned privatization of the government-owned carriers is re-launched in a few months.

Speaking at the launch of Iberia's nonstop trans-Atlantic flight to Guatemala, Iberia spokesperson Angel Mullor told reporters the Spanish carrier has had a "change in attitude" since the privatization of Aerolíneas Argentinas several years ago. In that transaction, rival Spanish leisure group Air Comet acquired the national Argentinean airline.

Iberia now says it plans to invest in Latin America, and the Mexican market is of prime interest. Also of interest is Brazil, but the airline it is unlikely to invest in smaller carriers than troubled airlines like Varig and VASP.

The Mexican government prepared to privatize the heavily indebted national carriers in 2001, but put the plans on hold after Sept. 11.




User currently offlineNAVEGA From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4766 times:

Rojo,

As usual your about the only person with correct news.

Both AM and MX will be merged and sold as one. Great news as they will become one of the largest airlines in the
world. My calculations will put them in 11th or 12th place in passengers carried worldwide.

This will also stop the insane CINTRA intervention in not letting either airline grow and prosper.

Great news and now there is hope for true honest competion in Mexico.


User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4740 times:

AM and MX merged?? Really?? When? My question is... Is not better to sell both airlines separately and that Mexico can having two international airlines?
Unicorn, thanks for your info.


User currently offlineMAC1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4719 times:

What will happen to SEAT?

User currently offlineAm001 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 221 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4668 times:
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What will happen to SEAT?

According to Reforma , Gasca Neri stated that Seat, Alas de America (Cintra's training center), and Aeromexpress (freight) will continue to exist, and will no longer be restricted to provide service only to Cintra's airlines (AM/MX/5D/QA)...

I wasn't aware that Seat, for example, was restricted... I think they provide ground services for other carriers (AF, DL)... can anyone confirm this?

Regards...



"Je vole car cela libere mon esprit de la tyrannie des choses insignifiantes" - St. Exupery
User currently offlinePzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1392 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4612 times:

Mmmhhhh.

I always knew (and wanted) that AM and MX would be sold together. Though, I didn't see spliting CINTRA between trunk and feeder airlines.

IMHO that was an interesting choice. As we have seen in the last couple of years, both AM and MX have been leaving from certains cities and routes in favour of QA and 5D. A few weeks ago, AM stoped serving LMM and CEN and 5E started using their ERJ.

With this, QA and 5D have a very extensive network covering almost all country. In fact, the fly to more destinations than AM+MX together (42 vs 35).

AM+MX will become Latin America's largest airline not only in pax or a/c, but also in its network linking 11 or 12 Latin America cities with almost 30 destinations in North America. Of course, they will keep serving major Mexican cities or trunk routes (as currently done), focusing much more on connecting them to the rest of the world (well, only America and Europe).

Nothing is yet written... A lot of things can still happen. I hope the best for Mexican aviation industry, but more importantly, for us, consumers!!!!!!

PZ



Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
User currently offlineFyano773 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 784 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4597 times:

CFC approved today the merger of AM and MX. The integration process will start immediately by merging the support areas (Finance, Human Resources, IT, etc)...

Very disapoiting news  Sad ...

In the worst scenario, I hope AM & MX merge alla AF-KLM keeping their brand names. Otherwise, AM would have halted the new 73G purchase.

Mexico deserves more than 2 flagship carriers as a foundation of a more competitive market.

So, we're drifting along towards tragedy... ehhrr... monopoly!  Angry

Fyano.


User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1773 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4561 times:

Ideal scenario here would be IMO:
One strong international carrier(AM/MX)
One strong regional/North America carrier (Aviacsa) that would keep main routes within sane pricing
Preferrably Iberia not buying, due to past experiences in LatAm.


User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1773 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4548 times:

I forgot to mention that I found it really silly to sell a regional and a troncal group for separate. Do these geniuses know anything about aviation?

User currently offlinePzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1392 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4547 times:

AM744,

On the contrary, I do not see 5D+QA as a regional airline. They serve more destinations in Mexico than AM+MX... Moreover, I expect the regulators to take out more destinations and routes from AM+MX to 5D+QA.

AM+MX will focus in major connecting routes within Mexico and flying abroad.... Stiff competition in major routes will become between AM+MX and QA+5D but also 6A and ZE.

PZ



Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6138 posts, RR: 30
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4510 times:
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This is a disgrace that goes against any comon sense. Who are they going to benefit with this? Can't even the employees realize that with one megacarrier they won't have many bargaining chips? Aviacsa in all likelihood will be smothered by the new monster and Aerocaribe and Aeromar will continue being part of that same conglomerate. This is a sad, sad day and one that reinforces my belief in the incompetence not only in Mexico's aviation policy managers, but in many other members of the Federal Administration. Whose intrest is this benefitting now, I wonder?


MGGS
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6138 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4508 times:
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And Iberia? Please, don't make me cry. One thing is fun and jokes with Anxebla et al. but another, having Iberia coming over and OWNING AM and MX. That will just simply not work.


MGGS
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5217 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

A fast MX+AM fleet summary:

10 F100 (which will be replaced with 10 A318s)
16 MD87
16 A319
13 B737-700 (+2 due for del. next NOV + 10 for JUN-DEC 05)
25 A320
26 MD80
15 B757-200
04 B767-200
02 B767-300

Total: 127

Together both airlines carried in 2003 over 16M pax.

QA+5D

09 DC9 (which will be replaced with 08 ex. MX F100)
05 EMB145 (+25 options)
23 Saab340

Total: 37

Together last year they carried over 3M pax.

Ricardo APM




Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineJopavon From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 304 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4470 times:

If the merger does happen, as read above, then some of the rumours said in the past weeks could make sense:
- MX leaving some stations
- MX opening destinations like DTW
- AM flying to IAD
- MX leaving Star Alliance
- MX increasing service to EZE with 763s (they could use AM's now)
- AM taking over MTY flights
- AM reducing ORD
- MX going back to DFW

The problem will be with the company's culture: they are too different.
Fleets can be fixed in the midterm.
Brand can be an issue to decide which one to keep, or maybe they leave one for charters and another for regular service.
Destinations, should be taken back (some of them) from Aerolitoral & Aerocaribe.
Will the embraers remain in AM or leave with 5D?
What will MX do with their partnerships: AA&IB.

The good part, big national airline...the bad side...HIGH prices will remain, but we deserve the government we have.

As an aviation ethusiast, I see with saddness one airline go, on the other side, business is business...so...

Maybe we now understand why Fernando Flores is in AM...

[Edited 2004-10-27 11:16:36]


Come fly Mexicana, to Mexico!
User currently offlineAnthsaun From Mexico, joined Apr 2004, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4394 times:

I apologyze for the missinformation at first. I just posted what I listened on the radio. Yesterday night, at Joaquín López Dóriga News I learned the information by Pedro Ferris de Con was mistaken.


Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
User currently onlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2713 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4332 times:

It was precisely one year ago that Rojo was informing us about this conspiracy. Rojo, Thank you for giving us the inside scoop on the political plots that are revolving inside the offices of CINTRA.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is another example of a mickey mouse by the Mexican government to temporarily get rid itself of the problem, instead of intelligently solving the situation and thus creating an even BIGGER problem for the future to the Mexican people. (Progressive minded people that we are, I tell you!)

Don't get me wrong, but from past experiences, the "yo lo creo, cuando yo lo veo" feeling persist as a neutral mindset because in Mexico, and especially in the Mexican aviation sector, the other never agreeing political forces still have a big say in whether the situation will actually go ahead, or not.

 Smile LatinPlane


User currently offlineMAC1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 21 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 4306 times:

I am not sure I understand the intentions as far as Alas, Aeromexpress and SEAT are concerned. Will these be part of AM/MX or QA/5D or spun-off as separate entities? Anybody any ideas?

User currently offlineJjjm From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 4279 times:


What will happen with AM and MX Employees?????

They don´t need 2 CEO´s, 2 Directors of each Department, 2 Managers, 2 Sales Rep´s, Hundreds of pilots, hundreds of Flight Attendants, hundreds of mechanics, hundred of reservations agents, hundreds of airport agents.

They don´t even need two names (AEROMEXICO and MEXICANA).

It´s disgusting to see how so many aviation related people will be fired. It´s not that you have many options in Mexico that you can easy get an aviation job in Mexico.

Thank you FOX. I think he believes that the more people unemployed the better.

Thums up for LULA, who protected thousands of jobs and real competition in Brazil, not accepting the merge of RG and JJ.

Any oher news regarding this topic????

JJJM


User currently offlineCx340 From Mexico, joined Sep 2000, 609 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 4260 times:

Like the old saying says, it ain't over 'till the fat lady sings! We all saw this coming, but I find it hard to believe that any merger between the two airlines will go smoothly. . ,many opposed interests here. In today's Mexican political climate, or mess to call it more appropriately, many voices still have to be heard on this issue. Let's see how it all ends up, but I for one don't think the goverment's plan will go through, at least not exactly as planned as of this date. Why? Well, look at what's involved: IPAB, powerful unions, possible lifting of the foreign investment 25% limit, job cutting and the list goes on and on. I just hope everything turns out OK.





User currently offlineSR117 From Mexico, joined Jun 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 4255 times:

It's quite doubtful that the airlines will merge right away, and I would not quite expect massive layoffs, so let's not get all riled up for no reason, for all we know this could end up being like an AF-KL thing for at least a few years. And airline growth could very well absorb any need for job cuts.

I think this is the right choice for the long term.


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5217 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 4192 times:

If the merger does happen, as read above, then some of the rumours said in the past weeks could make sense:
- MX leaving some stations
- MX opening destinations like DTW
- AM flying to IAD
- MX leaving Star Alliance
- MX increasing service to EZE with 763s (they could use AM's now)
- AM taking over MTY flights
- AM reducing ORD
- MX going back to DFW


Merger is already a reality.... all those changes coming in the next weeks and more!

MX and AM will reduce frequencies on certain routes to add more frequencies to other important destinations or open new markets. Currently both brands will be staying but I see Mexicana's brand will slowly disappear  Sad.

For example, currently MX/AM together have the 80% of the seats in the MEX-GDL-MEX flights. They'll reduce capacity to a 60% in order to deploy those seats in other very profitable routes or new destinations.

I also have a very close relative in Mexicana (F/A's)... and he just told me hours ago that MX will very soon be changing their uniforms and it will be the exact same uniform as AM (F/A's), AND.... MX/AM F/A's will ALL be flying A318/319/320/MD80/737/757/767 AND to all the destinations. Britmex, can you confirm?!.


*****


What will happen with AM and MX Employees?????

They don´t need 2 CEO´s, 2 Directors of each Department, 2 Managers, 2 Sales Rep´s, Hundreds of pilots, hundreds of Flight Attendants, hundreds of mechanics, hundred of reservations agents, hundreds of airport agents.


Of course there will be a lot of lost jobs after this merger AT IMPORTANT DEPARTMENTS... sure there's no need of 2 CEO's, etc.... but, ALL PILOTS WILL STAY (and in fact they'll hire in AM, perhaps main reason why MX hasn't re-hired the 135 pilots who lost their job before the MERGER), Flight Attendans WILL ALL STAY and also they have been hiring more in the last 12 moths... (there's always new groups)... mechanics will stay.... as for the rest I really don't know what will happen.


It´s disgusting to see how so many aviation related people will be fired. It´s not that you have many options in Mexico that you can easy get an aviation job in Mexico.

Oh common... a lot of people before this new merger lost their job. When Fernando Flores made the transition from MX to AM he took with him around 300 people to AM and 300 people lost their jobs in AM, others got transferred to MX with Romano. For sure Flores people will stay but before the sale takes place a lot of people in AM and MX which will be loosing their jobs will have the option to go to the other group (AeroCaribe/Aerolitoral) Both carriers are small, but before sale takes place they pretend to add capacity in QA and 5D in order to achieve 6 Million pax next year which BTW will make them the second largest carrier in the country.



Thank you FOX. I think he believes that the more people unemployed the better.

Thums up for LULA, who protected thousands of jobs and real competition in Brazil, not accepting the merge of RG and JJ.


The RG/JJ merge end a long time ago but RG's future still VERY UNCERTAIN and still story has NOT END YET!!!


Ricardo APM




Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
25 Jjjm : Ricardo.....it´s very strange tha MX has already started changing their image, since there is nothing defined as yet. Cintra will get a merging aprov
26 ERJ170 : Pehaps they can rename the entity... AeroMexicana??? And will AeroMexicana ever come to RDU??? Perhaps a 2x weekly to MEX and CUN? just a thought..
27 Ghost77 : Hard to believe, but MX will change their image slowly. At least that's what my uncle told me yesterday and another friend, she also confirm the exact
28 Anthsaun : Some how, I believe there won't be too many changes at all. Merging two businesses into one takes some time. Management can merge, but keep operations
29 Cx340 : The only thing I expect for is that unions do not intend to take advantage of the situation. aah, the big question mark. I would rephrase and say that
30 Anxebla : Is it official the merger yet?
31 N405MX : Negative. Acording to Cintra, they only asked to CFC about the merger, and they only said that it was possible, but still has to go to aproval
32 Britmex : easy, easy.... Nothing has been told to us regarding equipment changes or "mixed" crews. So far any fusion may be only in corporate levels at this ti
33 Mx330 : I think this is good for Mexico, to finally have one big airline. Let´s see if they now increase their overseas service. Would love to see MX prevail
34 AM001 : Britmex: Indeed, I flew MX yesterday (I'll post a trip report today or tomorrow) and talked to the very lovely FA about this... She says no one has ta
35 Pezetaroi : ASPA (the pilots union) has sent us information regarding this matter. There is no merger considered. Both airlines are to be kept flying as separate
36 Adriaticus : I suggest we keep things in perspective: (1) At the moment, CINTRA is only receiving the federal commission's nihil obstat for selling AM and MX as on
37 Rojo : AM and MX will be merged same way as AF and KL. KL can not disappear because they will lose all the international rights they have like AMS-MEX, since
38 Anthsaun : For Adriaticus and EddieDude: I'm not really informed about this matter, so I request your opinion and knowledge. Let us say, CFC accepts selling MX a
39 Cessnalady : As a paying customer and a fan, I'd much rather go for a merger 'a-la-Air France / KLM', that saves the Mexicana name and brand. AeroMexico may dissap
40 Anthsaun : Besides all these points about MX and AM; what about the baby brothers? I think Aerocaribe and Aerolitoral have a big chance to become a strong airlin
41 Jopavon : I just hope mexican taxpayers are not the ones paying for the merger. If they want to merge them, let the new owner start investing. Why not keep one
42 Britmex : Finally some information is leaking: For the moment there are no plans to merge AM and MX into a large airline. There are many reasons for this and m
43 NAVEGA : Folks, The Spanish are coming, the Spanish are coming.
44 WiLdmanVzla : I guess the merger will be true in a middle term... by the way, all domestic operations of both airlines are codeshared from some time ago. Perhaps th
45 Jjjm : This is what I believe would the the best. The merge should be: -The Livery should be a mix of both. The white/gray MX fuselage, with CO blue tail. -
46 Anthsaun : Jjjm's idea looks elaborated but way too far from reality from my point of view. Main investor has to be Mexican by law. My point of view, point by po
47 Post contains images LatinPlane : Most Mexicans like looking at Red, White and Green colors (not necessary the three of them together) on everything that has something to do with Mexic
48 Navega : Jjjm: Keep dreaming. Continental is having financial problems like most major U.S. airlines and cannot afford to take such a venture. The scenario mak
49 Anthsaun : Let's get the best of AM and MX to focus on which qualities should be kept. AEROMEXICO Business market USA and South American destinations not served
50 Post contains images Fly727 : One piece dresses for F/A. Welcome to my RUL. RM
51 Pecevanne : CINTRA will, take much longer time to consolidate MX and AM. My point of view is that they were too much optimistic and now they already feel that the
52 NAVEGA : The merger has already started and it did since last year. I do not think that either airline will dissapear. It will be interesting to see what happe
53 Anthsaun : Lets say there is not a sale plan for next year. Then, What is the 2005 developement plan for AM and MX? New routes? More aircrafts? More ticket offic
54 AM001 : Thought you all would like to know: This is confirmed: MX dropping MTY. AM dropping MID and VER. Don't know the dates... This was stated today as a fa
55 Mtyfreak : MX dropping MTY!?!?!?!?! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! Hopefully not before I get to see the A318, anyway, what's going to happen to the MTY-ORD route? , is 6
56 Pecevanne : I called some information sources in Mexicana( not top but well informed) and nothing related with Dario Celis information( REFORMA TODAY) Seems that
57 Ghost77 : The MX/AM issue of dropping destinations has been only a rumor, so far. I do believe those things and changes could follow in the next months. Definit
58 CAL : I was actually kida impresed by the Cintra site. Still looking for news Link not working sorry, copy and paste. www.cintra.com.mx[Edited 2004-11-10 00
59 Jopavon : At the end the problem with Cintra is not routes, planes, growth...as long as they don't do something: merge, sell, or whatever...we won't have our ai
60 Pecevanne : My point is that CINTRA ran faster than Eduardo Perez Motta in the Federal commission and this matter was not appropiate. They, at CINTRA, will face s
61 Post contains links Ghost77 : Right, as long as everything remains the same way we won't see any real change, growth or expansion from our airlines. As for today, a time limit for
62 Jopavon : Wouldn't it be interesting if 6A got to buy one of the groups. I'm not saying that's going to happen, but it could.
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