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Los Angeles - South America Traffic  
User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2936 times:

What is the traffic like between Los Angeles and deep South America (ie: Chile, Argentina, Brasil)?

Times from Brasil to Asia (via LHR/EZE) are roughly the same as those which would transit at LAX, yet a few hours are shaved off by traveling through LAX when coming out of EZE or SCL.

What is the business traffic like between South America and Asia, and despite the fact that none of the above listed countries participate in the I-94W Visa Waiver Program with the United States, would business passengers choose to fly via LAX on their way to Asia should the timing be right?

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2926 times:

Personally I think that many people would avoid having to transit on LAX if they possibly could. With the security checks and so forth that many people have to go through, and let us not forget the strain of getting a Visa into the states, people that need to travel from South America to Asia have the option of doing it directly via AKL or MAD. Even SYD if they wanted more frequencies to Asia.
Before QF pulled out of EZE, there where many passengers that where on direct transit to Hong Kong, Shanghai and Taipei ex SYD. Why? Have no idea. But maybe the large Asian communities in South America could shed some light.



User currently offlineAMS From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1691 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2925 times:

I know that many japanese Brazilians with a Brazilian Passport are now travelling via European Gateways to Japan, since they wont be able to obtain a U.S transit Visa anymore. I am quite sure this will effect the South America-USA transfer traffic.

Regards,
AMS


User currently offlineTBCITDG From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 921 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 2910 times:

I wonder how this effects people when ti comes to $$ Price? Is it roughly the same price via LAX as it is via MAD or LHR? Iam sure that there is more competition via Europe but any one have any indications regarding price?

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 2921 times:

FLY777UAL:

Very interesting post!

Currently the only airline serving LAX (with direct flights) from deep South America (GRU-GIG, EZE, SCL, etc) is VARIG (RG).

RG operates a 5 x week flights GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT with the MD11. Traffic (load + yields) are excellent. Before 09/11 this was RG's most profitable flight!

JAL operates 4 x week NRT-JFK-GRU with the 747 (this service operated via LAX until some time ago). By coincidence, last week I talked to a JAL manager in NY and they told me that their flights to GRU were equally very profitable, in both yields and load. They were expecting to increase services in the very near future.

Some other interesting points:

Indeed, everything changed after the US Government started to require transit passengers to have US VISA. At the time, Brazilians were the biggest pax in transit in the US, mainly in transit to Asian destinations; this alone is a strong indicator that there is a big business traffic between Brazil and Asia (especially Japan) - Continental, United and American network was also widely used.

After the requirement for Transit VISA in the US, there has been a drastic reduction in transit pax in the US, especially from Brazil. This resulted in a surge of pax traffic from Brazil to Asia through alternative routes: pax started being channelled mainly through YYC, FRA, LHR, and CDG, AMS, MAD. Air Canada even posted a news release stating that it increased flights from YYC to NRT because of the surge in transit pax from Brazil to Japan via YYC (there is no need for VISA for transit pax in Canada). And in EU countries Brazilians don’t even need VISA (3-month stay allowed without VISA).

Another route which started to be used is South Africa. SA even increased flights to Brazil to daily, and JNB-GRU was SA most profitable route in 2003! Many Brazilian started to fly to Asia through JNB using SA netwok from JNB to BKK, SYD, HKK, DEL, etc.

All this made RG look into other routes to Asia instead of the usual stop-over in LAX. For example, RG is expected to open a new route GRU-MUC-PEK, with the 777, as of December/04. In addition, the Brazilian and Japanese Governments were discussing a bilateral agreement by which RG would be allowed to operate to Japan from a third country in Europe. RG intended to fly the route GRU-ZRH-NRT.

On the other hand, the big downfall in transit pax in the US was in 2001-2002. Slowly transit pax traffic via the US is getting back to normal, as more people are getting the US VISA (which is valid for 10 years for Brazilians). Both JAL and RG now have again good loads and yields in their flights between Brazil and Japan via the US. Apparently RG has also abandoned its plan for the flights GRU-ZRH-NRT, as traffic is picking up through its LAX route.

I hope my answer will be of use!  Smile

Regards,

Hardi

PS: The biggest Japanese community outside Japan lives in the Sao Paulo area. With additional large communities of Koreans and Chinese.



[Edited 2004-10-27 11:27:38]

[Edited 2004-10-27 11:30:57]

User currently offlineKavanagh From Chile, joined Nov 2000, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2835 times:

Hardywv:

LAN (LA) fligths daily from LAX to Lima and 3x to SCL (one stop at LIM) so, theres 10x weekly flights!

You can flight also to Asia from DFW or from SYD or AKL on LAN.

bye


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

Kavanagh:

I know this, but I mentioned in my posting DIRECT flights! RG is the only airline flying direct to LAX (from deep South America). If you consider South America as a whole, then you have LAN flights from LIM to LAX.

Hardi


[Edited 2004-10-27 15:57:51]

User currently offlineKavanagh From Chile, joined Nov 2000, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2783 times:

ok.... so theres 7x weekly DIRECT fligths from south america to LAX on LAN, Lima IS south america right?. And we should add the AR flight LAX-LIM that continues to EZE...



bye!


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 2772 times:

Kavanagh:

I will repeat it yet AGAIN: i was referring to "DEEP SOUTH AMERICA".

Please read the first post of this thread: "What is the traffic like between Los Angeles and deep South America (ie: Chile, Argentina, Brasil)?"

Deep South America means Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay. From these countries there is only ONE direct flight operated by RG on the route GRU-LAX, 5 x week with the MD11.

You are really controversial guy, hein?

Hardi


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32620 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2752 times:

Varig's LAX service is 4x a week.


a.
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

MAH4546:

As of December/04, 5 x week (RG GIG-GRU-LAX).

--------------

The following are the flights from "deep south america" to ASIA:

RG = GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT
JL = GRU-JFK-NRT
MH = EZE-CPT-JNB-KUL

and to OCEANIA:

AR = EZE-AKL-SYD
LA = SCL-AKL-SYD
QF = SCL-AKL-SYD

Thanks,
Hardi




[Edited 2004-10-27 18:05:32]

User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 2648 times:

QF doesn't serve SYD-AKL-SCL with it's own planes. QF holds the route authority and LA serves the route on behalf of QF. The flight has both codes.

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2637 times:

JoFMO:

Thanks for your correction. Some time ago QF had flights SYD-AKL-EZE, in direct competition with AR.





User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2633 times:

Are you forgetting that LAN flies LAX-LIM-SCL-EZE? Then again, I still don't understand why we don't have more South American service, especially from US carriers. UA and AA both have a great deal of frequent flyers in the LA area would would love a 777 per day to all over South America


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

Deep South America means Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay and Uruguay. From these countries there is only ONE direct flight operated by RG on the route GRU-LAX, 5 x week with the MD11.

hmmmmm, according to whom? LIM is directly west of Bolivia, Brazil and northwest of Paraguay. It is in the southern hemisphere and it's an 8 hour flight from LAX. Not that I really care about this thread but, what makes LIM not be "deep enough" in SA?
By the way, the LAX - NRT flights on RG used to make a stop in LIM years ago. Same with the LAX flights on AR (do they still fly to LAX?). Then, there was my favorite, SFO-LAX-LIM on BN's DC-8s. Ahhh, the good ol' days.
FLY2LIM



Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently offlineErikwilliam From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2601 times:

RG from GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT, only because the Japanese comunity in Brasil that its huge, actually the biggest outside japan.
JL from GRU-JFK-NRT is very busy too, I took this flight to JFK a couple of times and was the cheapest.
The service is good and F/A´s too. and I have a really good history on this flight: the flight was packed, no place left in economy class, and I was on the side row ABC. I was on the window, and a pregnat lady and her mom seated next to me. As we know economy seats are not the most confortable in the world, then I asked the F/A if she could move me to another seat so the pregnant lady could be more confortable. The F/A asked me why and if I had any preference on another seat, since I was on the window one etc. I sayd no, anyone for me is fine, I just want this lady to be more confortable during the 8hr flight. I don´t know why, but the F/A couldn´t belive I was doing that, so she gently asked for my hand-bag and asked me to folow her. I did, and guess what?!She seated me in Business Class, since the economy was fully loaded with people. It was great, but I didn´t understand why she moved me instead of the pregnant lady, anyway, I did my part.

I know a bit off topic, but I felt like telling U guys.

Have a good one.



Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2588 times:

I always found it strange that there were so few flights operating out of LAX nonstop to GRU, GIG, EZE and SCL, I would think that a market exists for both O&D traffic and connections to/from the Asia and the Pacific, not to mention connections to other US destinations on the west coast. Miami is of course the US gateway to the United States, but other gateways/hubs have successful "deep south american" flights, such as DL at ATL, CO at IAH and AA and DFW.....why not LAX? I realize that the distances out of LAX are far, but the flights do no require ultra long haul aircraft, even a 763ER can manage some of the routes. Is this an oversight by the airlines, or to avoid risk, do US carriers simply route LAX passengers via their hubs. Another issue, I guess, is route authority - neither Argentina or Brazil are open skies and the number of flights into those countries are strictly controlled so services to LAX have not been introduced.

I too remember Braniffs DC8 flights from SFO to LAX to Lima and then on to other points in South America (mainly Brazil I think) - there may even have been a nonstop from LAX to SCL at one time. Braniff's authorities went to Eastern and then to American - so its likely that AA could re-open these routes, however, I do not think that AA could add any additional flights into Brazil or Argentina at the moment due to regulatory constraints.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2565 times:

Dutchjet:

Very good point.

Let me shed some light on this issue. This week United published a press release about its operations in Brazil. Currently UA operates flight from GRU and GIG to ORD and IAD. UA stated that 40% of its total pax flying from Brazil to the US used its connection service in ORD and IAD. The connections with higher demand were:

1. LAX;
2. BOS;
3. DEN;

This proves that there is demand for the US West Coast, but as you mentioned, maybe airlines don't operate more flight there because of restrictions in bilateral agreements.

Hardi



User currently offlineMarambio From Argentina, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2544 times:

And we should add the AR flight LAX-LIM that continues to EZE...

AR does not fly to LAX, either non-stop or whatsoever.

They are interested on starting the route. An FAA delegation is in Argentina to check out whether we can be upgraded to Cat1 again. Apparently we will.

The A310 doesn't have the range for EZE-LAX non-stop, while the A342s are already busy and the route loads' are not enough for a B744. This basically means it should be flown via some other South American city. Some rumors state AR will pick LIM, but as of now those are still ideas and no official comments have been made.

During the 1980s and early 1990s, AR flew EZE-MEX-LAX with a Boeing 747SP. For a short period of time, between 1999 and 2000, they flew EZE-LAX non-stop with an A342.

Saludos,
Marambio



Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlineLAXINTL From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24870 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2537 times:

Believe it or not LAX-South America is really not that big a market.

The California Hispanic population is by far mostly either from Mexico or Central America.
According to census information, from nearly about 6 million hispanics, only about 200,000 are from South America with Peruvians being the largest group with 53,000 residents.

Several South American carriers have served Los Angeles in the past including Aero Peru, Aerolineas Argentinas, Saeta, Ecuatoriana and Avianca however each has discontinued service for one reason or the other.






From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 37
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2532 times:

Marambio:

Why did AR turn down a 5th A342 earlier this year? I know they chose B744s instead, but surely one more A340 would make a difference and be useful as a back-up aircraft, especially since the active A340 fleet has been down at 3 aircraft since May due to the 8C-Checks (-ZPX must be nearly ready, no?).

And how many destinations did the 747SP serve? The last time I flew on an AR 747, circa 1990, I seem to remember it being unusually small. Did the -SP serve any European destinations?

Saludos,

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineArgento From Argentina, joined Feb 2000, 230 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2414 times:

The SP was used most of the time for the EZE-LIM-MEX-LAX route during the 80s.I know that the AR 747SP was the first to link EZE with FCO non-stop in 1982.In 1982 was not normal to take a point to point flight from to Buenos Aires to Europe ,you have to stop at GRU(VRC)-GIG ,and some times Dakar, specially in the 60s and 70s.
AR used the SP some times to Europe and other destinations in USA , but it was not a regular visitor.
The A340-200 is perfect for AR ,performing long thin routes like EZE-AKL-SYD, to FCO, JFK,(LAX,CDG).


User currently offlineArcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2406 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2389 times:

Hardiwv:

LAN has some seasonal non stop flights SCL-LAX, during our austral summer, so maybe this year they will restart it, as a combination with the regiular flight 600 EZE-SCL-LIM-LAX

Regards )( Arcano




in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
User currently offlineSequ From Ecuador, joined Jul 2004, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2360 times:

Arcano and Hardiw,

Yes, apparently LAN will begin SCL-LAX direct this summer (southern summer) beginning in January, using 767's.

I will try to confirm frequencies and such....

Saludos,

Alfredo


User currently onlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6500 posts, RR: 55
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2352 times:

Would be nice to see RG fly their 777s to LAX.... Any idea when/if they are getting PP-VRE and PP-VRF (ex-UA N205UA, N207UA) ? It seems to me that it would make sense for RG to have their best and most comfortable aircraft to fly their longest route and if/when they get more 777s, they should have enough of them to fly them to Japan via LAX.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
25 LVZXV : 777Man: Would be nice to see RG fly their 777s to LAX.... Any idea when/if they are getting PP-VRE and PP-VRF (ex-UA N205UA, N207UA)? November. And I
26 The777Man : Thanks, LV-ZXV! Any idea where they will be flying them ? The777Man
27 LVZXV : 777Man: All I know is that RG are ditching some of their MD-11s (and acquiring more!). Maybe Hardiwv or someone in Brazil could answer your question.
28 Ktachiya : AMS Interesting that Japanese Brazilians are going through Europe. So Varig can't fill the Brazil-United States-Japan routes anymore? Is the same kind
29 TBCITDG : I was very surprised at how expensive LA is compared to other carriers from LAX to EZE. I suppose that thy have the best connections (LIM) and no comp
30 Arcano : TBCITDG: Weird thing, a friend of mine founded that it was much cheaper to flight in business EZE-LAX than SCL-LAX by LAN, so he flew in coach to Ezei
31 TBCITDG : Interesting point. I have friends that are traveling to Argentina for summer from the states and the prices that they where quoted was far more than t
32 Arcano : Actually, TA and CM has very good fares for us from/to USA, so LAN starts to compete in Chile based on service, Lan Pass, direct flights and wide bodi
33 Hardiwv : The777Man: ZXV: RG's new 777 will NOT operate to LAX. They will operate to FRA and CDG-AMS. RG is also planning to start flights GRU-MUC-PEK, with the
34 The777Man : Thanks for the update, Hardi. I know that RG have talked about the route to PEK for a while. You really think this is going to happen early next year
35 Hardiwv : The777Man: Varig already has an agreement to operate the route with Air China, and the crew would be from both airlines on a RG metal. However, the de
36 LVZXV : Hardi: Can you by any chance explain the "juggling" taking place within RG's MD-11 fleet? Until when does RG plan to operate them? ZXV
37 Hardiwv : LVZXV: I really dont have any precise information. I asked this very question many times. In my point of view, RG's MD11 would serve better as cargo a
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