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Boeing 777 Orders For 2004  
User currently offlinePANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4119 posts, RR: 90
Posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 10293 times:
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I posted on this in August but it has been archived so I thought would post a few questions on how Boeing's orders for the 777 Series will look at year end. The Boeing website still shows the same firm orders as August, which were:

2 x 777-300A Cathay Pacific
4 x 777-300ER Emirates
1 x 777-300ER Unidentified
4 x 777-200ER Air New Zealand

There are still 3 "open" orders to be booked. SQ's 18 773ER, Etihad's 5 773ER and 6 772ER (or 772A?) for Thai. If those are booked before year end the 777 will have had it's best sales year since 2000. Oil, CH11, Loses etc etc, it's nice to see a positive.

Boeing had stated they expected 2 new operators this year. Since then the Etihad order was announced and Air India will become a new operator shortly. Are these the 2 new operators Boeing was referring to? Any update on MX?

Is there any other orders we may see for the 777 before year end? Another thread pointed to SQ's website which referred to more than the 18 firm as the initial announcement had said. Do they ink a deal for a few more frames? Does EK have any more need for further 773ER? They have 9 options. Sorry I haven't mentioned Airbus but I just had a few questions about the 777 orders and would appreciate any clarifications or updates.

Regards



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 10111 times:

772ER (or 772A?)

TG opted for the 772ER due to flexibility and resale vis-a-vis the 772A.




Any update on MX?

AM was considered the likely candidate, not MX





Is there any other orders we may see for the 777 before year end?

Probably not before the end of the year, but it's nigh-inevitable that we'll see SQ order the 772LR during/after its debut and testing.



User currently offlinePANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4119 posts, RR: 90
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 10049 times:
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ConcordeBoy

Thank you, I too, would like to see SQ seriously evaluate the 772LR upon EIS, their response to the 773ER EIS says it all. I forget one other possibility which is China. Though the 7E7 is the much discussed/anticipated order, other Boeings will be ordered too. Perhaps a few 777 rather than 73G?

Apologies to our Mexican friends for stating MX not AM  Smile

Regards



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 998 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 10000 times:

Is the unidentified 777-300ER for AF? I think I read that here on a.net, can anyone confirm?


thanks!

raggi



Stick & Rudder
User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 9864 times:

772LR for SQ? Well Fred, let's wait and see.... Don't be any "Nostradamus", and don't make mistake between your wishes and reality  Big grin

User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6500 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 9573 times:

Yes, the unidentified 777-300ER was for ILFC for Air France.

As for new orders, there's still the possibility for Libyan Arab Airlines (LN) to order the 777 before the end of the year - they said that they are very interested in the 777.

TAAG Angola Airlines recently said that they are looking into an order for 737s and 777s. Perhaps before the end of the year ?

Finally, Qantas just announced that they are interested in a replacement for their 747-400s and Boeing flew a 777-300ER to show to Qantas. Qantas is also considering the A340-600. Probably not an order before the end of the year but perhaps next year ?

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlinePANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4119 posts, RR: 90
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 9369 times:
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The777Man

That is a good call. Libyan Arab could well be closed before year end. TAAG & QF I just don't see any deal's being finalised this year should Boeing win the order competitions. A question for you if I may. I recently have started to hear that EK may in fact purchase more 777 direct from Boeing before year end. Have you heard this?

Also with NZ & VN Committing to lease more 772ER do any of the Leasing companies need to purchase any new frames, even if only to secure production slots?

Regards



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineAdria From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8733 times:

How many A340/330 di Airbus sell in 2004?

User currently offlineRamerinianair From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8626 times:

Sorry to sound stupid but what is the 772A? I am aware of all the other models of the 777 except that one?
Thanks,
SR



W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8307 times:

Sorry to sound stupid but what is the 772A?

777-200 (non-ER)


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8282 times:

Sorry to sound stupid but what is the 772A?

777-200 (non-ER)


User currently offlinePANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4119 posts, RR: 90
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8275 times:
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Adria

I don't know how many A330/340 have been sold. Note in my original post I apologise for not mentioning Airbus as I had a few genuine questions about 777 orders FOR 2004 and I don't want this to turn into an A vs B pi$$ing match which you are obviously intent on doing. Go check out www.airbus.com and you'll have your answer there.

Ramerinianair

777-200A and 777-300A are the original base models of the 777 series. The 200ER is the "B" market model. Perhaps Concordeboy or DfwRevolution who are far more knowledgable than I could correct or clarify my answer. I believe the 200A was primarily sold to Asian customers such as TG & EK, the 300A was bought by CX, SQ & TG

Regards



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8236 times:

I believe the 200A was primarily sold to Asian customers such as TG & EK

Also receiving customers in N.America and Europe.




300A was bought by CX, SQ & TG

...not to mention JL, NH, KE (the only carrier to fly them TransPac in scheduled service), and EK. No 773A has ever been operated by a non-Asian carrier.


User currently offlineRJ111 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8171 times:

How many A340/330 did Airbus sell in 2004?

18 firm

VS, EY, SR and TG yet to be confirmed

http://www.airbus.com/doc/media/ordersndeliveries/orders_n_deliveries.xls


User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8160 times:

The 772/3A is the A-market (go figure) or non-ER version of the 777-200/300. It was the first model of 777 offered by Boeing, before quickly offering the 777-200B or ER.

As you may recall, the 777 was designed with the idea of replacing the DC-10 and L-1011 fleets that the US carriers were still flying en vigueur. The 777-200 A-market doesn't have the range or payload capacity that the 777ER and LR offer and is designed more to fly large amounts of people relatively short distances. However, despite AA and DL have large fleets of DC-10s and L-1011s, respectively, only UA has really taken advantage of the 772A as a DC-10 replacement. AA and DL have both opted for longer range 777s as MD-11 replacements.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlinePANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4119 posts, RR: 90
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8071 times:
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COMMUNITY MANAGER

...not to mention JL, NH, KE (the only carrier to fly them TransPac in scheduled service), and EK. No 773A has ever been operated by a non-Asian carrier

Does that make EK the only operator of all 4 variants? ie 200A/ER & 300A/ER?

Regards



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineHoons90 From Malaysia, joined Aug 2001, 3001 posts, RR: 53
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7847 times:
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Does that make EK the only operator of all 4 variants? ie 200A/ER & 300A/ER?

JAL operates all 777 variants that are flying today.

A-market 777-200s(JA8981-8985, 771J etc., PW powered) and A-market 777-300s (JA8941-8944, 751J, 752J etc., PW powered) used solely for domestic, and occasionally, some charters to Hawaii/Guam/Saipan.

B-market 777-200s (777-200ER JA701J-JA709J, GE powered) which fly Intra-Asia and JA704J-JA709J which fly to LHR, CDG, ZRH and Intra-Asia as well.
B-market 777-300s (777-300ER JA731J, 732J, GE powered) which fly Intra-Asia only at the moment.


[Edited 2004-10-28 17:47:58]


The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6500 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7747 times:

PANAM_DC10;

Yes, I have heard that EK is in talks with Boeing for more 777-300ERs; this time direct order. They are apperently talking about a fairly large number.... Smile

It leads me to think they will possibly cancel their order for A340-600s...

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7537 times:

TAAG Angola Airlines recently said that they are looking into an order for 737s and 777s. Perhaps before the end of the year ?

Not this year, but maybe next year... hopefully; according to the recent article.



Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
User currently offlinePANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4119 posts, RR: 90
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7523 times:
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COMMUNITY MANAGER

Hoons90

Thank you very much for that information. I never knew that.

The777Man

Hmmmm, EK, yes, they announced 9 options at Farnborough. Direct orders would be great too. Imagine, they have already committed to 30 frames! It seems that EIS is proving very successful for the 773ER and EK ordering more must surely put pressure on delivery slots. It would be interesting to see what ILFC & GECAS are considering given they've placed all their 773ER.

Thanks for the feedback and so as not to contradict myself I shant mention A346 or Airbus as I'm just interested in the 777 orders and I'm convinced Boeing has "one up the sleeve" so to speak before year end.  Big grin

Regards



Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineBlsbls99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7012 times:

Why would EK cancel orders for A340-600s?


319 320 313 722 732 733 735 73G 738 739 742 752 763 772 CRJ D9S ERJ EMB L10 M88 M90 SF3 AT4
User currently offlineAdria From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6825 times:

"I don't know how many A330/340 have been sold. Note in my original post I apologise for not mentioning Airbus as I had a few genuine questions about 777 orders FOR 2004 and I don't want this to turn into an A vs B pi$$ing match which you are obviously intent on doing. Go check out www.airbus.com and you'll have your answer there.".....I just wanted ti know and if you have a problem with that then let me remind you that this is a FORUM(where people can ask/talk/or give answers about something)


"Is there any other orders we may see for the 777 before year end? " why don't you try www.boeing,com?-and you'll have your answer there.



User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2735 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6781 times:

"Why would EK cancel orders for A340-600s?"

First off, remember that nothing has been decided. EK still has not placed their larger follow-on -300ER order, nor have they decided to cancel the A346HGW order.

That said, the answer to your question lies in the original decision to split their 350-seat order between the 773ER and the A346HGW. Nay, it goes back even further, to the original RFP. EK wanted the best performing aircraft possible. It's requirements were very strict. Although I can't give you specifics, EK wanted a very high payload as well as very high range. At the time, however, they couldn't get both requirements from the same aircraft. The A340-600 had the range (IIRC, Dubai to Chicago was the requirement), but not the payload. The 777-300ER at the time (before flight testing), had the payload, but not the range. Negotiations with the manufacturers began, and these two issues kept being brought up. Meanwhile, the -300ER had finally entered flight testing, and was proving a capable performer. At the same time, Airbus was promising a higher payload if EK waited for the HGW version. Another issue was price. EK liked what Boeing was promising with the -300ER, but not the price tag. In fact, Mr. Clark even mentioned EK wanted to buy the -300ER, but Boeing would not negotiate on the price. Finally, EK decided to buy 18 A346HGWs and lease 2 more, while at the same time, they would lease 26 773ERs. That way, they had the A340's to cover the longer-range routes with less payload, and the 777s to cover the high-payload routes. Something to note is that delivery of the 777s would begin almost immediately (March 2005), while the A340's wouldn't start arriving until 2007.

Toward the end of the negotiations, and after their conclusion, Boeing kept pushing the payload-range curve of the -300ER. Today, it has a higher official range than the A346 (Airbus has not released numbers for the HGW, but I'm told it's more of a payload increase than a range increase). EIS with AF and JL have proven well received, as well.

Subsequent to EK's announcement, they commited to a direct purchase of 4 more -300ERs, as well as 9 options. Now, I have been informed from a source within Boeing that EK is in talks for the direct purchase/option of 27 more aircraft. Whether or not this pans out or not is anyone's guess. However, the acquisition of such a large number of aircraft prior to the introduction of that aircraft's direct rival does cast doubt on whether or not the A346 order will stand up. But again, that's merely guesstimations, not based on any announcement on behalf of EK.

Regards,

Hamlet69



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlinePANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 4119 posts, RR: 90
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6481 times:
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COMMUNITY MANAGER

"Is there any other orders we may see for the 777 before year end? " why don't you try www.boeing,com?-and you'll have your answer there

Well

I just wanted ti know and if you have a problem with that then let me remind you that this is a FORUM(where people can ask/talk/or give answers about something

Agree and RJ111 has kindly provided your answer in a far more eloquent manner than I  Big grin . Reason for the post was because I had been to Boeing.com, promise I'll refrain from posting on a bad day at work again.

Anyway, back to topic and thank you Hamlet69 for a very good post. You've provided some very good information/updates to me in previous posts so I might try to ask if you've heard of any 777 for China in the 7E7 deal? As I understand other models will be ordered at the same time as the 7E7 with a total of almost 100 frames all up.

Regards






Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5217 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6031 times:

Today I've been told by my friend @ AM that the airline's first 2 B777s (they pretend to fly 4 777s by 2006) will be 2 used ex. SQ B777-200s and lease agreement will be for 7 years. Announcement was schedule for October, but as you can see the anticipated merger between CINTRA made it first to the media. So, we will have to wait for an AM announcement next November.

Any SQ insider? Anyone knows when SQ could transfer the 777s, possible rego's? I know the first one its schedule to start AM schedule flighst in October and November 2005.


Ricardo APM




Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
25 ConcordeBoy : will be 2 used ex. SQ B777-200s Interesting. I'm curious as to whether they would be members of the 9V-SV* family... which is are so limited in supply
26 Ktachiya : Was the 777-300ER listed for JL and NH? Just wondering.........
27 PANAM_DC10 : The 773ER orders, 8 for JL and 6 for NH, are listed in 2000 when they originally ordered the model. Think those numbers are right. Regards
28 Hamlet69 : ". . .will be 2 used ex. SQ B777-200s and lease agreement will be for 7 years." I also find this rather interesting. I had assumed that GE90's would b
29 The777Man : Hi Hamlet! The original SQ 777s were the SQx series, then came the SRx series and lastly the SVx series (of the -200s). The SVx series is the only SQ
30 ConcordeBoy : ConcordeBoy, you'll have to remind me (or you, The777Man) which registrations go with which aircraft. IIRC, the -SV*'s were the original deliveries, w
31 Post contains images The777Man : I think AM should just take the plunge and order new aircraft from Boeing The777Man
32 Post contains images Fyano773 : I think AM should just take the plunge and order new aircraft from Boeing We hope so... According to current frames, backlog, etc. supposse AM places
33 Hamlet69 : Gents, My mistake. I never really pay attention to registrations unless I have to. For the most part, I only track l/n's and, in Boeing's case, effect
34 ConcordeBoy : That's what I thought... ...and since, if IINM, they're powered by Trent884Bs--- they can be PIPed to 90K+ and 656,000 for AM should the need arise ou
35 PANAM_DC10 : Thanks Hamlet69 The777Man is correct, CJ is part of CZ. I believe HU need their 777 for EIS in 2005 so looks like they'll be leased. True, there is a
36 Bill142 : Finally, Qantas just announced that they are interested in a replacement for their 747-400s and Boeing flew a 777-300ER to show to Qantas. Qantas is a
37 Hamlet69 : "But from what I have heard this deal will be decide by price more then performance." Also what I've heard. OTOH, I've had a few Qantas people tell me
38 ConcordeBoy : agree 100% Hamster... I've ALWAYS wondered WTF was the rationale behind QF's fleet planning!
39 Dalecary : agree 100% Hamster... I've ALWAYS wondered WTF was the rationale behind QF's fleet planning! Not too hard re 380/330. The 380 was a desirable addition
40 Anxebla : By the way of QF and SYD... does anyone know if Boeing flew a 777-300ER from SYD to GRU to show how wonderful ETOPS-330' can be?
41 Hamlet69 : "A big win for the bean counters." And no one is arguing it isn't. In fact, that's the point. As the new aircraft come in, they will obviously make a
42 Anxebla : Hamlet69.... but when that engine was shut down for 5 hours... which one was the leg?? was it during a SYD-GRU test flight??
43 Post contains links Hamlet69 : The original 330-minute shutdown was on a flight from Seattle to Taipei, as reported here: http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2003/q4/nr_031015g.html
44 M27 : Recife, Brazil. Syd-Rec Duration of flight 18hrs 25min.
45 Post contains links M27 : Just a side note, ATW is posting on their web site news, that JAL is getting 0.5 to 0.8% better fuel burn than expected. If this has already been post
46 Post contains links and images Anxebla : Thanks a lot by that link, Hamlet69... it's very interesting but it seem SYD-GRU's leg or another airway close to the Antarctic never have been flown
47 Aviasian : As India's aviation regulations creaks apart ever so gently, I would place my bets on Jet Airways going for the B777s. This was mentioned when the air
48 Dalecary : "And no one is arguing it isn't. In fact, that's the point. As the new aircraft come in, they will obviously make a good impression due to low acquisi
49 Hamlet69 : ". . . but it seem SYD-GRU's leg or another airway close to the Antarctic never have been flown on a test flight." Actually, the point I was trying to
50 Anxebla : Hamlet69... Do you know if ETOPS-330' is approved yet by FAA or JAA?
51 ConcordeBoy : Not yet it isn't
52 Anxebla : No? When? Is necessary more flights test? What is the maximun ETOPS approved at the moment???
53 PANAM_DC10 : Well I didn't figure on cancellations or deferrals! It would appear that Boeing and AA are close to reaching an agreement on AA's remaing 9 772 orders
54 Cathay744 : What does "A" stand for does That mean the 777-300A of CX are more advanced then their other 777-300 ?
55 The777Man : My guess is that AA will defer delivery of the 777s but not cancel them. They will need them for their planned expansion to Asia. Next 777 for AA is c
56 ConcordeBoy : What does "A" stand for does The A indicates that the aircraft is the original 777-300 model, meant to serve what's referred to as the A-market: mediu
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