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United Airlines Flight Attendant-less  
User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6371 times:

I heard a story a couple years back about a United flight that had 0 flight attendants and the passengers were serving themselves coffee and nuts? Is this a true story, or was it just a rumor.

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTrolley Dolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6309 times:

I don't think it could take off without crew. That wouldn't be legal.

The closest I've heard is a BA stewardess who was working a flight ex India and the whole cabin crew went down with tummy troubles after some dodgy restaurant food. She and a couple of colleagues were spared as they were vegetarian and didn't eat the same meals. The flight deck crew, luckily, hadn't gone out with them that time, so were also spared. She said the pax were more than happy to step in a play cabin crew for the flight. They also had to get some able bodied pax to station the exits for landing. Afterwards she got three months off work, with full pay, while the whole crew were in quarantine. (They were food handlers.) A few of the crew suffered such serious long-term effects, that their flying careers were over.

This happened a long time ago, as the stewardess who told me was deadheading between Jo'burg and Harare in 1990.


User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26493 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6218 times:

That BA story is insane. There are Express flights in the US all the time that go out without an F/A, the ones on 19 PAX planes like Be 1900s.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAC861 From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 43 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6167 times:

Not sure how American regs work, but I know here in Canada any A/C with 20 or more pax has to have an FA onboard, then its one FA for every 40 pax.

User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 730 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6085 times:

Agreed--there is no way a flight would have gone out with no F/As. That's so illegal it makes my head spin. UA would have been fined BUCCO dollars and the media would have had a field day.

Only aircraft with fewer than 20 seats are not required to have F/As. In America, I think the rule is then 1 for every 50 pax.

And besides, there's no way non-crew members would EVER have figured out how to work the galley coffee maker!



"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlineBCal From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6058 times:

Trolley Dolley

That BA rumoured story is strange. Surely there is a rule in aviation safety that dictates the minimum number of cabin crew in planes carrying +20 passengers. OK, the passengers could help out with serving of coffee, drinks and perhaps meals (that would be fun!) and opening doors on landing but what if a serious incident arose and/or emergency landing was necessary? With insufficient qualified cabin crew active, the airline would be seriously breaching safety rules. If half the cabin crew were unable to fulfill their duties, the captain should land the plane at the nearest airport and not continue the flight until a replacement crew is sought (might be difficult in flight is in mid-Atlantic but that might necessitate a diversion to somewhere like Gander/Iceland/Azores?).

Does anyone know the minimum cabin crew ratio to passengers for 737s or A318s and above? Is it 1 cabin crew for every 50 pax?



[Edited 2004-10-29 07:34:17]


MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineBrido From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 160 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6044 times:

No way in hell that a UA flight went out with no flight attendants.

UAX maybe. But if it had "coffee and nuts" it was a Part 121-flight and FAs are **required**. Absolutely impossible that they pulled away from the gate without flight attendants.

A clarification: In the USA, FAs are required 1:50 SEATS. In Canada it is 1:40 PASSENGERS.

I have worked on both US- and Canadian-registered airplanes. Under FAA and Transport Canda regs. The differences were striking and interesting. The A320 with 180 seats **required** 4 FAs in the USA, even if there was **one** pax onboard. But in Canada, if there were less than 120 **passengers on the aircraft**, we could go with 3 FAs.


User currently offlineBCal From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 6030 times:

A clarification: In the USA, FAs are required 1:50 SEATS. In Canada it is 1:40 PASSENGERS.

Anybody know about UK regulations and is there an international minimum?

I did hear a rumour that an African airline landed at Stansted and the UK authorities prohibited the flight to return as a routine inspection found they were operating with below minimum cabin crew. Some passengers had to disembark before the flight could return to Africa.




MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineCheetajet From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 44 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6011 times:

Actually, An American Airlines 727 took-off without FA's and had to return to the airport. I guess the original cabin crew went illegal and walked, but the passengers we're still on the aircraft!! HUGE no-no!! Well, no one communicated that the new cabin crew hadn't boarded yet so the agent shut the door. Because the door shut, the flight crew thought the flight attendants were on board and pushed back!! This was way before 9-11 and CRM obviously. The plane took-off and about 40 minutes into the flight, there was a knock at the flight deck door. It was a passenger asking if they we're going to be served on this flight. Needless to say the plane had to turn around and go back to pick up the flight attendants! I heard this story, first hand by the second Officer on that very flight who was pass riding on my airline. We laughed for awhile over that one......
Melissa



I push a beverage cart, so don't go break'n my heart!!
User currently offlineBCal From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5998 times:

Cheetajet

That made me laugh.  Laugh out loud

On a serious side was the captain disciplined? I always though no passenger airplane could depart until the flight deck crew had been informed by the cabin crew that the cabin was ready for take off?




MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineAirgeek12 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5976 times:

I'm pretty sure it's against FAA rules to not have a F/A. I mean F/As are the ones that like secure the cabin, crew doors, and a whole lot of other stuff. The plane like wouldn't live without them! :p

User currently offlineCheetajet From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 44 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5949 times:

UM....You Might think we're super important and we are, but an airliner can operate without us. I've taken off having forgotten to arm a door and then armed it during climb! On DC-9's and older aircraft, the flight deck crew can't determine if doors are armed or not, like on the airbus or high tech aircraft.
I've had carts come loose in the galley during take-off because catering didn't secure them and I forgot to check!! Long days and many legs and we forget things just like earthling...also, Just because the FAA makes rules doesn't mean we always follow them to a tee....again, Long days short legs...er...you Get the picture....
Melissa



I push a beverage cart, so don't go break'n my heart!!
User currently offlineNtspelich From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5935 times:

Not only would UA never let that happy, but no airline in the US would, or could, allow it to happen. The FAA regulates how many cabin crew must be on board in relation to the # of seats. Not occupied seats, but total seats. So, even if you have a 777 with only 30 pax on it, you still need the # of cabin crew that you would if each seat were filled.


United 717 heavy, you're facing the wrong way. Any chance you can powerback to get off of my deice pad?
User currently offlineCheetajet From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 44 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5916 times:

This situation happened many years ago. Everyone in here totally agrees that something like that happening in today's post 9-11 world is impossible and that is true. We communicate with the flight deck crew throughout boarding , after door closes, and such. It was not always like that. Many times when the flight deck door closed, so did communication!!!


I push a beverage cart, so don't go break'n my heart!!
User currently offlineBrido From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 160 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5915 times:

Cheetajet:

Not to start a "thing" or be nit-picky...

Arming doors and securing galley carts is your job. Carts coming loose on takeoff because you "forgot to check" is 100% **not-okay.**

What were you doing instead of arming the doors and securing the galley equipment?

Please stop giving professional Flight Attendants a bad name. I've been doing this job almost 20 years and don't need your help to look goofy.

Thanks.


User currently offlineCheetajet From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 44 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5892 times:

Okay, so you never made a mistake? You never had a cart come loose? The unarmed door happened ONCE and it was my fault and I take full responsibility for that. I've seen other FA's make the same mistake. What about "Blowing" a slide? That happens all the time!! I've never done that!! We are human, humans make mistakes and it's okay to communicate that fact to others. I'm a very professional Flight Attendant who follows full uniform guidelines and has perfect dependability! But I have made mistakes and learned from them. If communicating that fact makes us look bad, well, sorry. So relax!! Chill!! Calm down, take a deep breath. Let's not be a Nazi Stewardess.....


I push a beverage cart, so don't go break'n my heart!!
User currently offlineL104me From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5860 times:


Maybe a silly question...but it came up in my mind from reading the post.

I knew US Carriers had the 1 to 50 passanger ratio ( I believe it's actually seats...doesnt matter if they are full or not). Didn't know that Canada was 1 to 40.

But here's my question... If a US Carrier is operating to Canada, do they have to staff at the 1 to 40 ratio, or comply only with the US standards?

Just Curious...

Jeff


User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5854 times:

The A320 with 180 seats **required** 4 FAs in the USA, even if there was **one** pax onboard.

That would be an interesting flight. In an emergency that is one F/A per passenger limb... they could carry me to safety easily while I continue watching my movie on the personal video recorder. With nothing else to do I would expect some serious customer service... maybe they could feed me grapes and fan me... assuming they are all my type.  Smile Haha, just kidding of course.  Smile Time to wake up.


User currently offlineCheetajet From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 44 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5856 times:

Hi Jeff. We have to follow US standard because we are a US carrier. Just like the US drinking age is 21, you have to be 21 to consume alcoholic beverages on a US carrier, reguardless of destination. Doesn't that suck?!....oh well...
Melissa



I push a beverage cart, so don't go break'n my heart!!
User currently offlineBrido From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 160 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5839 times:

Melissa:

Uniform guidelines? Dependability? Oh boy...

NO I have never had a cart come loose. NO. I have never *not* armed a door. Are you working on a solo-FA or multiple-FA airplane?

I have done both...

Cross check your doors. Secure your galley carts and equipment. It ain't that hard for gosh sake!

Like I said, what were you doing INSTEAD?? I have been around. I take the job seriously...


User currently offlineUAXDXer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5821 times:

If a US Carrier is operating to Canada, do they have to staff at the 1 to 40 ratio, or comply only with the US standards?

US Carriers follow the US FAR Part 121 to and from Canada 1 FA per 50 seats.

You're correct about 1 FA per 50 seats no matter how many pax are on board.



It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
User currently offlineDeltamd-88 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5798 times:

Brido just curious your profile says you are between 26-35 so how have you been a F/A for 20 years??


Buck Fush Buck Fush Buck Fush Buck Fush Buck Fush Buck Fush
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5795 times:

I was on a delivery flight (Finkenverder-KEF-IND) of one of UA's new A319s. Onboard were two UA test pilots, a UA instructor pilot (as a guest), the UA executive who signed for the plane, a UA QA engineer, and myself. We were operating pursuant to FAR Part 91, so no FAs were required. The view from the cockpit of southern Greenland and all the icebergs off the coast was spectacular! The flight was well catered by LH and I fetched food and drink from the galley for the pilots.

User currently offlineBrido From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 160 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5577 times:

Deltamd-88:

I said almost 20 years. To be exact have been flying 17 years.

I started very young, true. And soon I'll need to change my profile (or not, we'll see.)

Fact of the matter is I've been doing this job damn near half my life.


User currently offlineMissedApproach From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4873 times:

Attention A.net members, from now on instead of using the phrase "no one is perfect" please use the phrase "one person is perfect". Thank you.  Yeah sure



Can you hear me now?
25 Post contains images Aa767400 : Brido, It seems you need to relax, and just got over your stern look on things. So you think you are super stew, and are better than everyone else bec
26 Ewr767 : Are u guys for real. As if the pilots would take off with flight attendants. Give me a break. Ever heard of Fars. Post or Pre 911. This did or would n
27 Aeronuts : Should happen or could happen? It's a pretty funny story. I wouldn't even know which button to press for the coffee!
28 MTChemNerd757 : To the two of you bickering: None of us want to read it. If you want to bitch each other out, PLEASE just send an email. The forum is not the place fo
29 DAV67 : UK CAA REQUIRES 1 CABIN CREW MEMBER FOR EVERY 50 SEATS WHETHER OCCUPIED OR NOT.
30 Trolley Dolley : For all those that say the BA story is insane, I was surprised myself when the stewardess told me. As mentioned it was a long time ago, in 1990, and h
31 SegmentKing : I remember when I used to do the FLL-LAS trot on United... would do some really funky routings and I got to know a lot of United flight attendants. I
32 Flyboy1980 : When I was a f/a, I had a cart come loose in the rear galley of our BAe 146 on take off. I had checked they were all secure, but then I had to check s
33 AlanUK : Erm.... hello? Cabin crew are not just there for tea and nuts!!! Legally FAA and CAA give airline a minimum crewing levels per aircraft. Ie.: 777 by C
34 Nwa747-400 : So, a little off topic... Do Air Canada CRJs have 2 FA's?? CRJ = 50 pax
35 Brido : NWA 747-400: Transport Canada gave an exemption for the CRJ to operate with one FA, based on what I'm not exactly sure. As for the other criticisms, o
36 Stealthpilot : Brido…. We got your point the first time. I don’t doubt you take your job more than seriously; in fact it’s great that you do!! But, I am sure M
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