Bartond From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 788 posts, RR: 3 Posted (8 years 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 3021 times:
Alright I'm bored so I thought I would toss this out there - what will DFW look like this time next year? The new international terminal will be up and running (hopefully), and the new train will be whisking around the airport, Delta will be all but gone and Terminal E looks to be a pretty vacant place. Might Airtran take some of those gates? Jetblue? Frontier to ramp up service? AA take up some of those gates and dominate the airport even more?
What will the international terminal look like at any one point? It'll probably have about 16-17 gates with AA planes, 1 for TACA, 1 for LH, 1 for BA, KE is there before the European widebodies so it might use one of their gates like they do now in Terminal B, 1 or 2 for Mexicana/Aeromexico...?, 1 for Ryan Int'l., etc. What else? Might JAL actually pony up and come back? Doesn't sound like QF has any plans of coming here, EI might work but the Ireland/US agreements won't allow it and they'd rather use new planes on SFO, MIA, etc. What carrier might pull a Sabena and come here with its own metal via a codeshare with AA? EVA? Who knows but I'd like to get some thoughts on what might ACTUALLY happen. Any new news?
AirStatDFW From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 364 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2782 times:
Well AA will have 20 gates of the new terminal so most of it will be silver birds parked there. Other carriers unsure, heard Air India maybe, JAL was looking at a lounge to buy in the terminal, SAS looking but we are still a ways out.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6875 posts, RR: 29 Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2681 times:
Well, AA is planning ramp up operations even more, by adding 90-some more flights. More international stuff is in the works, like the return of DFW-KIX.
DL hub/focus city will be gone.
All bets are off now for WN or AirTran showing up anytime soon. They will be brawling up at MDW. On that note, if AirTran gets all the MDW gates, then they won't be able to do anything at DFW for a while since all new resources will be going toward MDW for a while. WN will probably counter, and this will likely be the end of the handshake relationship between WN and AirTran which sure could make things interesting at BWI and MDW. Watch WN go start ATL ops just to stick it to them. I can't imagine WN being to happy about the AirTran & ATA potential deal.
The other wildcard is US in PHL. If they go, then WN will ramp up PHL big time.
For the time being, as in year for now, its not too likely that WN will be there and AirTran to ramp up. The battles are being fought elsewhere.
Ejmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2455 times:
I strongly doubt that NW would move into DFW for many reasons.
1. Sharing a hub, and being the #2 airline there by a wide margin doesn't fit NW's current tendency to protect thier hubs from competition.
2. The only way NW would have any chance at DFW would be to move their entire MEM operation to DFW. I don't really know if there would be room for that. NW currently has a high-fare monopoly at MEM, and that is not something they would have a DFW.
3. NW would face the same problems as Delta. I don't think DFW is large enough to support a two large-scale legacy hub arrangement. With a very superiour route structure to Delta, American slowly gained loyalty from DFW pax.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
JayDavis From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 17 Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2440 times:
Maybe the guy above meant to say WN instead of NW ????
If so, that still isn't going to happen. I just saw in the paper that WN absolutely said they had NO interested whatsoever in starting flights at DFW. AirTran was going to have, at one time, 30 to 40 flights a day at DFW, but now that they "might" have the MDW operation going from buying out ATA's fleet for MDW, they will put DFW more on the back-burner.
Also, WN (Southwest) is NEVER going to go into ATL and try and stick it to them (FL, AirTran). They have no interest whatsoever going into that HEAVILY congested airport. They have a lot of places they can still start service to in the USA with their 737's before they even THINK about ATL.
Lastly, at best, JAL will come back to DFW but that is about it with possibly the exception of AF. I don't see Air India coming in at all.
Kkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2352 times:
Yeah, MAH is correct as usual. Why would AA make the same mistake UA did with Latin American traffic from Miami when half the traffic is O&D? I'm not sure if the WN/FL "handshake" is over even if FL does gto into MDW. There are still several key cities ATA served from MDW that WN would never touch. In BWI there is overlap on Florida routes and nothing else. I don't think the MDW situation will be that clean, but I don't think FL will go out of its way to antagonize WN either on certain routes. If that means pulling back from some ATA routes, that may happen.
Texdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1266 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2176 times:
You truly must have been bored!!
The answer is NO to JAL, AI, AF, SQ, Qantas, or any other international airline.
The reason is simple...DFW is a large and efficient domestic airport...to be a truly international airport with large numbers of foreign carriers requires our fair city to be able to attract foreign visitors, not just businessmen.
I have traveled extensively around America and Europe/Asia. You don't want to know what "they" think of Dallas. It would break your heart and get you upset. I kinda of gotten used to it.
They think Dallas is a boring city with no touristy places to visit, and most Europeans don't like the Texan culture.
In this election year, they also hate George Bush, and Dallas, and Texas in general is tied to that.
I predict that other than Terminal A and C, the airport will be mostly barren. Furthermore, I predict that DFW will fall out of the Top 10 busiest airports in the world by 2008.
AirStatDFW From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 364 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2160 times:
Tex why so negative! I think we will have some new traffic. I know of carriers that have expressed intrest in DFW. One reason why they aren't here now is because we don't have that many gates and they all want to be here at the same time.
Jcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 43 Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2108 times:
to be a truly international airport with large numbers of foreign carriers requires our fair city to be able to attract foreign visitors
Ummm...Houston is able to attract foreign visitors? Geez, I feel bad for the person who gets suckered into buying a vacation in Houston. The majority of Europeans who have I met and have visited Texas do like it. No, Dallas isn't the most touristy city in the world, and I can understand why some one would find it boring--but Houston is pretty boring too in that regard, and a hell of a lot dirtier.
I think Air France might be out of the picture for the next few years, especially with DL pulling their RJ hub. JAL is a possibility, but one thing that hasn't been brought up is that JAL only flies the 747-400 to North America--probably overkill in the DFW market, and the JL 777-200 is not configured, seating-wise, for trans-Pacific segments. Someone brought up the possibility of SK coming to DFW--probably not, but it wouldn't be a bad idea. I don't think that AA would even bother putting a competing flight on a DFW-CPH route (although I wouldn't put it past them ). I think Cathay might be well served to look closely at a route to DFW, especially since there are no flights to Southeast Asia from DFW (KE is only a few times weekly, and ICN doesn't offer the most convenient connections to Southeast Asia). If anything, CX could gain some real codeshare opportunities with a flight from DFW. BR to TPE, again...longshot...but, they're raking in cash on the cargo route, however sometimes it doesn't translate. AI...doubt it.
Lono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1321 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2078 times:
DFW is not just a large "domestic" airport...
Just because DL is leaving doesn't mean DFW will start shrinking..
In my opinion DL had a good shot at making DFW successful... However they failed to capitalize on the gains they made against AA there... For a while there DL had service to FRA, ACA, MEX, PVR along with of course many domestic city pairs. The international flights DL had were constantly oversold and freight would back up.
The Metroplex is what the 5th largest metropolitan area in the USA..??? The population continues to build at a rapid rate and the tax structure makes it very attractive for businesses.... Right up the road is the Alliance Airport and that is also very successful...
I would have to disagree with you that DFW will be out of the top ten airports any time soon
Bobs89irocz From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 632 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2056 times:
Lono- I totally agree with you. I lived in Fort Worth for 17 out of my 22 years and have seen a shift in the traffic at DFW the past 5 years. With DL leaving its not a BIG difference but it a noticable change. Others will come and more often as well. AFW is a good asset to have, only to FedEx and AA for now. With FTW, AFW, DAL all being so close to DFW i would consider DFW able to hold its own VERY well. I dont see it falling out of the top 10 anytime soon at all either.
Texdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1266 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1895 times:
I must admire you guys for your idealism and big dreams of DFW, but I must respectfully disagree.
I will be the first to eat crow when DFW gets another international carrier, but I just don't see it happening anytime soon.
When international visitors who are tourists think of America, they think LAX, SFO, MIA, NYC, etc. Visiting Dallas is not on any Asian/European wish list.
Hence when the economy hits a rough patch and businesses cut back, DFW has no place to go, and carriers either cut back or leave entirely.
Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
25 Lono: Tex Some places are more business than tourist... The metroplex is an international business destination... Having lived there myself... I would see m
26 ConcordeBoy: I think Air France might be out of the picture for the next few years, especially with DL pulling their RJ hub. Agreed JAL is a possibility, but one t
27 DeltaGuy: And BN will reactivate to pick up the slack in the market that DL will have left In all seriousness though...it's a shame DL is just GIVING the rest o
28 AAtakeMeAway: Will the KE operations at DFW be affected by the de-hubbing of DL? My real question is: Is the majority of KE's DFW traffic O&D or Sky Team connection
29 Bartond: That's a good question AATakeMeAway. I think there are a good number of connecting pax coming into DFW on Delta flights and then taking KE across the
30 Jrlander: I would guess that KE might close the DFW station and open a route to IAH. The CO hub at IAH would give them significant business. In addition, I am g
31 COfaninBOS: I've wondered the same things about KE. In addition to providing convenient connections via SkyTeam to Texas, the Southeastern US, Mexico, and Latin A
32 Drerx7: Houston is not a dirty city--especially for its size; its no dirtier than Dallas, and while Houston is not a very big tourist city, it attracts many s
33 Bartond: Alright quit with the stupid Dallas vs. Houston gig. Geezus, you can't start any thread on this site that doesn't end up in an Airbus vs. Boeing or AA
34 Jrlander: I can't imagine AA would startup a codeshare with KE, given that KE already codeshares with DL and will (probably) soon codeshare with other SkyTeam m
35 Drerx7: Honestly, I don't think there can be a thread like this without a Dallas vs. Houston gig starting -- lol the rivalry goes way back before A.net's time
36 ConcordeBoy: Doesn't AA already codeshare with Asiana, KE's Korean competitor? Asiana went to Star
37 N276AASTT: Does anyone think maybe IBERIA from Madrid have a shot at DFW? With the Oneworld feed from AA, that might translate into a daily service? What do ya'l
38 CoTXDFW777AA: I think IAH could handle KE bc of the connecting traffic and it large asian pop. It can handle CI and it is a tag on flight, and does not have any con
39 Saxman66: Well despite all the wondering who will come and who will not, DFW will no doubt be most impressive. With the new terminal already looking complete an
40 JayDavis: I have a friend who works for CO and another friend who works for KE. With CO joining SkyTeam, look for CO to start feeding the KE flight from IAH. I
41 LV: Any update on the rumor that DHL might make a move for DL cargo center at DFW? That would make it a hub for two cargo lines....AA all day and UPS and
42 AAtakeMeAway: It appeared to me that Terminal D is physically connected to Terminal B, like one big terminal (not just by train track/roadway.) Did I see that right
43 AirStatDFW: AATakemeAway, You did see it correctly Term B is connected to Term D. I believe they are going to have to get rid of gates B1- B4, so they can use gat
44 Texdravid: I love this topic because it gives me so much room to bash my hometown airport DFW "International". To those who think that KE will move from DFW to I
45 Drerx7: Wow, that's pretty harsh view on DFW--lol; I don't believe BA will leave DFW--the DFW has a slightly larger catchement area than IAH--so it can suppor
46 Saxman66: I don't know why some people choose to say DFW sucks without backing it up why. DFW will not regress to DFW Regional Airport again. Being called inter
47 ConcordeBoy: DFW ranks 21st among top destinations for international passengers. This is right around Seattle (20), Maui(22), Ft. Lauderdale(16), New Orleans(17),
48 MSYtristar: It's ok Fred, we don't need tons of international carriers to prove that we (New Orleans) are an international city. Our port does that job quite nice
49 MSYtristar: MSY is as internatonal as they get baby. We don't need BA or LH to prove that. Not many cities have a port which sees daily arrivals from Europe, Asia
50 ConcordeBoy: Our port does that job quite nicely with daily arrivals from Hong Kong, Korea, etc. Yeah, but to be honest... that's even MORE aggravating. Go to the
51 Akjetblue: Back to the topic of this post, isn't it rather obvious that this time next year... AA will too pull out from DFW and NW find another use for the DC-9