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NW, The Airline Flying Classic Jumbo Trans-pacific  
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7505 times:

When thinking about this, is NW the only airline to fly classic jumbos across the Pacific? And is NW the only airline to fly DC-10's across the Pacific? I just thought about if for a second an all I know is the NRT-LAX run and the NRT-HNL run (well this route is also flew by JO and JL on classics) Since the YVR route got replaced by the -400, I can't really think of any other airline that flies Trans-pacific flights on a classic jumbo. Is their any schedule change to a -400? Even if there is, I don't think an A332 would do right? Because there is higher demand in this competitive route. So if the route is competitive and many airlines introduce new high-tech jumbos, is there any specific tactic for NW surviving on this route?

Thanks for the input
ktachiya


Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7400 times:

LAX-NRT-LAX was flown by the 744 for NW while they had all but 2 742s they were using for the SEA-NRT-SEA run. When they brought them back into service, the route went back to the 742.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBoeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7379 times:

On Monday SEA-NRT goes A332, so there will be no more Classic 747s on regular service across the Pacific.

SEA, PDX and SFO will be A332, while LAX will be 744.



Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7527 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7307 times:

This topic comes up over and over again. There will still be a few 742's and DC-10's on Trans-Pac routes. LAX-NRT will still be a 742 since there are not enough 744's to cover all the routes. While NW may not have all the bells and whistles of some of the Asian carriers, they serve their niche, an constantly fill their aircraft. Please don't bring up aircraft age, since that is completely irrelevant to the discussion.


NW Trans-Pac Routes in Nov.

DTW-NRT 744
DTW-NRT 744
DTW-KIX 744
DTW-NGO 744
MSP-NRT 744
JFK-NRT 744
HNL-NRT 744
NRT-BKK 744
NRT-MNL 744
NRT-PVG 744
NRT-HKG 744
KIX-TPE 744
NGO-MNL 744

LAX-NRT 742
NRT-GUM 742
NRT-SPN 742

HNL-NRT D10
HNL-KIX D10

SEA-NRT 332
PDX-NRT 332
SFO-NRT 332
NRT-ICN 332
NRT-BKK 332
NRT-PEK 332
NRT-SIN 332

NRT-CAN 757
NRT-NGO 757
NRT-PUS 757
NGO-SPN 757


User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7253 times:

Is there a reason to assigning the classic to the LAX route? (high density, etc?) I mean I don't understand why the 744 is used on the MNL route but not the LAX route???? Or is it just me who thinks this is odd?

Also I heard that NW acquired two new 744 recently (at least in the last 2 years) Pretty soon, we might see the retirement of the Classic Jumbo fleet? Some have already flown nearly 30 years. Or converted to Cargo.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7527 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7203 times:

Yes, NW acquired 2 new 744's in 2002. The 742's will be gone from passenger service when there are enough suitable aircraft to replace them. As for right now, this isn't possible. The 742's also do some charter work. NW's remaining pax 742's (there were 7 in service, now will probably drop to 6 when SEA-NRT becomes an A330 in a few days) are all relatively new, for the classics. They are from the 80's for the most part. The oldest classics have been put in cargo service, retired, or put in storage in the desert.

The 742's and DC-10's give NW the ability to match capacity with demand. Should they be awarded new slots to Asia or whatnot, NW can redeploy the classics if needed or have the parked in the desert. Others don't necessarily have this flexibility.

NRT-LAX was a 744, but there are not enough 744's to go around right now, primarily due to the conversion of World Business Class and repainting. It all has to do with aircraft routing and the time of day. Flights to places like MNL, originate in the US, stop in NRT, then continue onward beyond NRT. There are any 744's available at the time of the day to go to LAX. My only question is why is the one NRT-HNL a 744 and not swaping that with the LAX flight.


User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2946 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7176 times:

A single 744 cannot do NRT-LAX round-trip in 24 hours. Obviously NW has just one spare 744 and they happen to use it on NRT-HNL.

It depends on how one interprets 'transpac' but HNL-Japan/Korea doesn't constitute transpac because it isn't a total crossing. Thus there are no DC-10 on transpac flights.


User currently offlineRedtailmsp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 206 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7037 times:

LAX-NRT will be the only -200 transpac as of Nov 1st when SEA-NRT becomes an A330. When flt 8 arrives back in SEA on Nov 2nd, the aircraft is scheduled to go straight to Marana for parking (acft 6631 - which is slated to be converted to a freighter in the not-too-distant future along with 6632.) They need two aircraft for any transpacific rotations and they are planning on keeping one acft in SEA as a spare for the short term. There will be a total of six remaining for now. They would love to get the -200 off LAX-NRT, but they don't have enough -400 capacity to do that this winter due DTW-NRT remaining twice daily. Incidentally, the aircraft that went tech on arrival into LAX on the 27th - 6638 - will be ferried to ORD for an engine change on Oct 30th. Don't know what the plans are for this acft after the engine change.

They are looking at more -400s - they have looked at parked United ones sitting at Victorville, which include two acft that were originally built for NWA but never delivered. I am sure Boeing would offer them very attractive deals on new builds too. They certainly need them for LAX-NRT plus any return to nonstops to China out of DTW.


User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5731 times:

Is this route losing its initial competition?

I also heard that TG dropped it. Since SQ started its non-stop service (they have more capacity for pax out of NRT) but boy isn't it queer. Does Malaysia still fly this route?



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5674 times:

Doesn't JAL still fly classics (743) to YVR?

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5490 times:

No JAL's NRT-YVR is now a B 747-400.

Does NW fly its B 747-200s into Europe? What about HKG? Will it be a 400 as well? Does anyone have the entire list of destinations the 200 flies to in November?


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7527 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5286 times:

Hey, United Airlines, please read what I posted above in post #3
Those the only 742 routes left.
NRT-HKG is a 744

The 742 has not been in scheduled servive to Europe in a few years. It has occasionally shown up as operational spare, example last spring it subbed in on one of the DTW-AMS routes. Europe is all A330/DC-10 only.


User currently offlineManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1219 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5151 times:

Don't JAL still operate clasics into HNL or have these services now been replaced with 744s?


Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4636 times:

ManchesterMan

If I did not point it out clearly, I apologize. They fly the JO 742's to HNL. So you can see many classics on that route.

NRT-YVR is now a 744 so JL has the complete network of the Americas flown by 744's. It just changed on Oct 1. I don't think they will downgrade the service ever to a classic jumbo. Which is sad for spotters and for me but for me (who has flown that route 9times on a classic, I just hate it!!!!) As long as the classics are away from the planes that I fly, its all good.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9160 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4563 times:

JAL still flies the classics into Australia however. So there are some long haul routes left.

Wonder if HKG will ever recieve a B 742 again. HKG was always being served by a mixture of 200 and 400. Sometimes the DC 10

Heard that NW had plans to fly Hong Kong- Detroit nonstop a few years back. What happened to that plan? Will this become a reality one day?


User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7405 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4483 times:
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Heard that NW had plans to fly Hong Kong- Detroit nonstop a few years back. What happened to that plan? Will this become a reality one day?

We were planning on serving DTW-HKG and DTW-ICN back before 9/11, but due to economic effects from that, the plans were shelved. I doubt we will serve HKG n/s now that we're in the SkyTeam. Non-stops to ICN are growing increasingly likely, with the slots in NRT drying up. The new airport in Nagoya is also being looked at for additional service fro alternate markets once in opens in Febuary



Made from jets!
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4275 times:

I just have a feeling that many of JL's classics are going to NRT. If NW inagurates the NRT routes to 744, they should still have a lot of KIX routes left on the classics. The longest route that I ever took on a KIX flight classic was a few years back MSP-KIX on NW. The cabin smelled horrible I wanted to jump off the plane!!!

(>_<)



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2946 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4236 times:

DTW-ICN can be done by the highest gross-weight 742s but I doubt that's the way NW wants to take.
For the xx-th number of times, NW will need more long-haul aircraft that it currently has for expansion out of DTW to Asia.


User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4159 times:

In reply to above, Yes NWA did recently use the DC-10 on Trans-Pacific flights SFO-NRT and PDX-NRT, as recently as 1 or 2 months ago. They will certainly go down as the last regularly scheduled Trans-Pacific DC-10 routings, so yes, it and the 742 are both symbols of NWA's trademark use of insanely old designs, as if to prove to the world how useful old planes can be in the year 2004.

User currently offlineJafa From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 782 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4067 times:

In reply to above: NWA has always been financially responsible and conservative, as a business major I have come to admire and appreciate their strategy. They aren't trying to prove anything to anyone. Just doing what is best for the bottom line. DC10's and 747-200's are not "insanely old".

User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3963 times:

Jafa, how do you read it? I was just curious because NWA has many A330-200's on order on some of their routes like NRT-SEA was replaced by that aircraft from the 742. That was quite a downsizing. Is this for "profit maximization?"


Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3929 times:

An A332 can probably make 75-80% of the revenue that a 742 can. Meanwhile, it costs around half as much to fly (in terms of fuel + mx). So yes, it is probably more profitable.

User currently offlineJetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7405 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3899 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

But it will probably piss off some elite members when upgrades on this flight become impossible to get.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineJafa From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 782 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3851 times:

I think the fact that PDX has been started has something to do with it. These cities are relatively close together and can pull traffic from the surrounding NW area. Both Horizon and Alaska feed traffic at PDX and SEA.
NW never originally planned to use A330 on tranpac routes. However with current economics, economic savings of the new aircraft , opening of PDX, and conversion of the origianl A330-300 order it makes sense at this time.


User currently offlineCragley From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 426 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 14 hours ago) and read 3748 times:


I think its a disgrace that NW are still flying classics on competitive routes.

Take a look at UA to SYD versus the QF product. Who wants to spend 15 hours of their life in a squashed tin can with peeling interiors, exteriors and seats?

The more competition on any pacific route the better. I think US carriers lack glamour, comfort, entertainment in their product. Airlines are no longer about flying from A to B. It's about getting their in style, being entertained, feeling welcome and of course getting there in time. NW knows how to operate a US airline, but unfortunately their international product is a little grim.

NW 747 classic = fat lady in a 70's frock. Sure she's friendly, but would you want to spend time with her? Say a 12 hour flight  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

SQ, JL, NH are all fantastic products with their management on the pulse of the industry.

Do you want to drive a ferrari or a pinto?



25 Ktachiya : Jafa, Wait!!! Somethings wrong. Didn't NW order the 332 with the intention of using them on Trans-Pacific flights? If not, they could have kept on ord
26 Jetjack74 : Didn't NW order the 332 with the intention of using them on Trans-Pacific flights? If not, they could have kept on ordering the 333 instead The origin
27 Ktachiya : What is the attractiveness of NW then? For instance in Japan, NW is regarded as a cheap way of getting to destinations. I know that some pax rather ta
28 United Airline : Cragley, As an aviation enthusiast, I hope the classics stay as long as they can. The old interior reminds me of my younger days of travelling. UA's B
29 Cessna172RG : Northwest...well, I do have lots of stories that I can say about them, but... As for flying out of Narita and to the states or Canada, I find that fly
30 Ktachiya : United Airline, when is UA ever going to get out of chpt 11? I have yet to see the new color schemes that they have. Cessna 172RG, that's incredible!!
31 Avek00 : 1. All of the 742s received new interiors over the past few years, and are in as good a condition as the 744 fleet in this regard. 2. Asian carriers a
32 Carfield : Well I don't mind flying NW's Boeing 747-200s across the ocean, but if NW will keep them for a while and there are only six of them in the fleet, will
33 N1120a : >Wonder if HKG will ever recieve a B 742 again. HKG was always being served by a mixture of 200 and 400.An A332 can probably make 75-80% of the revenu
34 United Airline : SQ and CX's First and Business Class are far superior than UA's and NW's. When will UA get out of Chapter 11? Maybe early next year?
35 Avek00 : "SQ and CX's First and Business Class are far superior than UA's and NW's. " There's no question that SQ and CX's FIRST class cabins are better than t
36 Azjubilee : LAX is stuck with a 742 because there just aren't enough planes. The only routes with a 742 right now are NRT-LAX/SPN/GUM. THe beach markets are the h
37 United Airline : NW's food is better SQ and CX's???? You serious? Umm...... what do you get on NW's WBC? Haven't been on it so I can't tell.
38 N1120a : >LAX is stuck with a 742 because there just aren't enough planes. The only routes with a 742 right now are NRT-LAX/SPN/GUM. THe beach markets are the
39 Nwaclc : Why is it NW keeps a 747-200 on LAX-NRT and has a 747-400 on HNL-NRT?? It seems like the 744 would offer a more uniform product (wbc) from the west co
40 Azjubilee : It only takes 1 744 to do NRT-HNL and would take 2 to do the LAX flights. They can use the HNL 744 as an "operational" spare in case things go wrong t
41 Nwafflyer : Hey, NWA first class on the 330 is truely world class -- no question at all there -- right up there with Singapore, Japan -- and, don't forget, Northw
42 Ktachiya : So actually does this LAX run manage to get filled? Well if not, I think NW would take another aircraft from the desert and start flying it. I mean th
43 N1120a : Great explanation AZJ. >Hey, NWA first class on the 330 is truely world class -- no question at all there -- right up there with Singapore, Japan -- a
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