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Aer Lingus To Stay In Oneworld?  
User currently offlineCXoneWorld From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 315 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4872 times:

That's the latest in the Irish press:

Aer Lingus may have decided to stay in oneworld alliance, after having talked with other members in the airline grouping.

However, one question remains as how the Irish carrier is gonna reconcile its new LCC identity with other self-prided premium carriers such as BA,QF and CX, particularly in areas such as reciprocal FFP recognition, codeshare, and interline arrangement, etc...Any insight on this matter??

http://www.businessworld.ie/livenews.htm?a=1034023;s=rollingnews.htm

 Smile

[Edited 2004-11-01 18:47:33]


oneworld alliance revolves around you
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEIRules From Ireland, joined Aug 2007, 766 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4712 times:

Well my own personal opinion is that this is just press rumor. I cannot see how EI can stay in OneWorld which prides itself on being essentially a premium alliance.

Even more problems arise on the codeshares. There is unfortunately no comparison between EI's service in Europe when compared to that of BA. I know Iberia have gone down the low cost route in some aspects on its short haul but not to the same extent of EI.

Perhaps EI may like to stay in OneWorld and I would certainly want them to. But I think they may get kicked out rather than actually leave!



Next Flights: EI DUB-LHR A320, BA LHR-SFO B744, UA SFO-LAS A320, BA LAS-LHR B744, EI LHR-DUB A320
User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4689 times:

They still have two cabin classes and offer improved services on their trans-atlantic services. Unfortunately Aer Lingus's service levels are probably where the market is headed for many airlines. We have already seen legacy carriers start to offer food-for-purcahse on some flights. As long as they have more than one class of service and provide special services for elite flyers I don't think they would get kicked out of the alliance but I could be wrong. AA is an important member of the alliance and their service levels aren't they same as BA or CX either. I think the key is having more than one class of service and a frequent flyer program and Aer Lingus still has this.

User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4531 times:

I agree with EIRUles. OneWorld prides itself on being the Full Service alliance, and Aer Lingus, if they move to this lowcost business model, clearly do not fit.




Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineCXoneWorld From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4530 times:

I just went to the airline's wesbite, and interestingly, on its very first page, no oneworld logo was visible...  Confused




oneworld alliance revolves around you
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2498 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4531 times:

Well I have to say that EI does not add anything to the OW alliance in terms of network or service. OW should seek to replace EI with SN to benefit from their extensive African network as well as their good reputation among European passengers.


Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineAMS From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1691 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4512 times:

EI has become in a way a sort of LCC, I do not think that you can compare this kind of service with other One-World airlines, however IB is also becomming more a kind of LCC!

Regards,
AMS


User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4404 times:

EI has also dropped its Saturday night stay requirement for its transatlantic fares, definitely a LCC policy out of step with OW.

User currently offlineAnxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4361 times:

Even though EI is not my favourite airline at all, I prefer seeing EI within OW. Irland already has one LCC... really is it necessary EI become in another Low Cost?
AMS.... for your info IB is not any "kind" of LCC... the fact IB charges meals on intra-european flights (and just on those by less 150') don't means IB is nearly a LCC. By the way, I dislike this charge on meals and I'm not agree with it.


User currently offlineMcmahonsmr From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4318 times:

I attempted to purchase a JFK-DUB or JFK-LHR-DUB flight on AA.com the other day.

For the outbound journey the AA 7970 option was listed when I selected AA only. When I selected "all carriers" and "oneworld" carriers I only got the AA 7970 option. The EI 104 option was not available. Same rule applied for inbound DUB-JFK.

For the London routing I received options for AA to LHR and connections on BA only. Those BA connections being for a LGW transfer as well as 59 series LHR-DUB flights. The 5900 series flights of BA are in fact Aer Lingus operated flights. However, the EI options, such as EI153, were never offered, even when selecting all carriers.

Not sure if this is a sign of EI's immininet withdrawal from oneworld . . . to be honest I never benefitted from EI's membership in oneworld. Because of highly restrictive rules on which classes qualify for AA mileage for EI flight numbers I never received any credit. It is also my understanding that the TAB points awarded for oneworld flights were pathetic. One of my relatives traveled on an AY flight from DUB-HEL and received 25 TAB points. Yet, a DUB-MUC flight on Aer Lingus would be eligible for 100 points.

I believe the pitfalls of TAB have been discussed at great length so I won't bother going on. It suffices to say that Aer Lingus did not contribute significantly to oneworld.

SPM


User currently offlineEi2ksea From Ireland, joined Jul 2004, 578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4260 times:

Just to fill in the context of EI joining OneWorld in the first place. It was at a time in mid 2000 when the airline was being primed for privatisation with a BA partnership seemingly best step to make EI attractive for investors. In practical terms EI never had anything to offer OneWorld, it neither offered a convenient hub nor impressive service.

Mcmahonsmr, i agree totally, especially since my TAB membership is to be cancelled at the end of this month as it seems im loyal but not loyal enough. I cant help but think that TAB really was a farce. Back in 2000 i used an F class OneWorld Explorer flight pass to fly DUB-LHR-SYD-PER-MEL-HNL-DFW-SEA-BOS-SNN. By far Aer Lingus were the weakest carrier in most respects. Even in baggage retrieval having lost bags 6 times on the journey, the uniquely unhelpful EI system left quite a sour taste in my mouth (being a former employee the feeling was even sourer!). The points received were abysmal.

CXoneWorld, EI have not been very keen on advertising the OneWorld brand for the last few years. Early on, the blue dot wa son everything, now as you said its difficult to find it anywhere with the Aer Lingus red dot much more visible!!

Anxebla, the Irish market has been very much Ryanair-ised, unfortunately its got to the stage where EI would not have survived the port 9-11 slump without its restructuring with this new model - the Irish public just werent willing to bear the old fare structures. Look at EI's expansion alone in the last 3 years, its been a phenominal success with higher profits and 32 new routes.



Next Flight: DUB-BOS (EI), BOS-DEN-PDX (SWA), SEA-BOS (AS)
User currently offlineLucaschap From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4061 times:

In my opinion it is now time for EI to leave One World. Their current ethos is not compatible with the other high spec. carriers in the grouping.

However I think you will find in the future that a lot more major carriers will go down the EI road by cutting service in order to lower prices. Especially on short haul services.

It is not clear that in order to compete in the current aviation climate other national carriers will need to copy EI's lead.


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4021 times:

AMS:

I agree with you, the fact that IB and SK charge for meals on intra-european flights make they become ever closer to LCCs...is it really necessary to make savings by charging pax for a little sandwich and coffee/coke??

Rgs,
Hardi


User currently offlineIrishjohn From Russia, joined Nov 2004, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3972 times:


Is everyone who uses this forum in the aviation industry and hence oblivious to reality??? Or am I missing something?

Aer Lingus service has been crap for the last 10 years or more!! Never understood how they survived - what with a poor product, unhelpful and unfriendly staff who for the best part were underworked and overpaid and a 'like it or leave it' approach to passengers.

9/11 was just one additional nail in the coffin! Ryanair taught the Irish traveling public just how much we were being ripped off and it taught Aer Lingus how to survive!

Membership of oneworld was a mistake, as either Star Alliance or Sky Team would have have been a much better fit for what is a niche carrier. True Aer Lingus was expecting a saviour (in BA) BUT instead of asking what did Aer Lingus bring to oneworld ask what did oneworld get out of it - a safe back door for BA would be the obvious answer (slots at Heathrow)!!!!!

No doubt TAB was a poor man's attempt at a FFP! And yes the oneworld partner points were super pathetic and endless asking for explanations from Aer Lingus or oneworld were ignored! And this remains one of my biggest hits against oneworld - poor partner points!!

It just maybe that now Aer Lingus has a product that they can work with and we, the passengers, can understand! I know what I am getting and the price I will get it at!! There are now base standards for service, standard cabin layout and a more realistic FFP. The question is now if oneworld still need Aer Lingus?

Recently Aer Lingus reduced its Transatlantic Premier by 50%! Reason given was reflection of it's move to a more user friendly carrier!! I can live with that white lie - truth is better to lower the fares, still make money and not have to bring the premium cabin up to international standards!! Nothing wrong with the Premier service just outdated in comparison to the opposition on the routes!!!

I would question the idea floated above that Aer Lingus is no longer a fit for the other oneworld 'high end' carriers!! It's the 'high end' idea I have a problem with! Define 'high end' and in oneworld you will find some startling differences! Legacy Swissair first class, in Europe, was high end and no other carrier came close! Everything since has been a variation but never the real thing! There are too few consistencies with in the alliances to make them anything more than monopolistic self serving arrangements!

Willie Walsh has achieved a remarkable turnaround but with the assistance of the staff! He now needs the Irish Government to make some serious decisions concerning future ownership of the carrier!! But Aer Lingus has changed and maybe for the better!!!

Just my thoughts

J



User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5214 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3953 times:

I still think EI being a member of Oneworld makes sense. My understanding is that AA feeds a lot of traffic to EI at ORD, and vice versa. If EI drops out, then AA will try to feed traffic to Ireland via BA at either LHR or LGW. That cuts into EI's traffic, maybe to the point that it drops service to ORD.

So, EI doesn't have the best service. AA's domestic service isn't what it was 5 years ago. All of the legacy carriers have downgraded domestic service, except for trans-con.


User currently offlineBullpitt From Spain, joined Mar 2004, 871 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3866 times:

AMS

Some people like yourself should think before they post, Charging for meals on short and short to medium routes, does not make you anywhere near a low cost. And by the way there is a lot more, from an economical point of view, than just the savings in the meal removal. For one, this has allowed IB to lower their fares in many of those routes, the pap then decides if he wants to spend part of those savings on a meal. By not having a need for bigger galleys these have been made smaller and extra seats added. And on top of that the sale of those meals also provides benefits.



These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
User currently offlineMarara From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 678 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3808 times:

sounds like low-cost to me.

there is a difference between low-cost and no-frills.

maybe bullpitt should think before posting  Insane



I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
User currently offlineBullpitt From Spain, joined Mar 2004, 871 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3750 times:

Change hobbies Marara, if you can't tell the difference you've got no Idea about this game. Checked your age, I imagine that explains a lot.  Confused


These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
User currently offlineMarara From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 678 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 3704 times:

ohhh. must have hit a nerve if youve gone to all the trouble of checking my profile (which btw hasnt been updated since i joined a.net). Didnt anyone ever tell you not to judge a book by its cover. Just to be fair i checked out ur profile aswell. "Airline staff" in spain. hmmm "I imagine that explains a lot"

I certainly know the difference between a low-cost carrier and a no-frills. Its my job to.

Australian Airlines = Low Cost. Jetstar = No-Frills.

I tell my clients planning short-haul travel with IB that it was lo-cost style service (iv only had to do it once). Otherwise they are going to be pissed with me because they didnt get their choice of plastic chicken or cardboard pasta.

my hobby has served me well, I think i'll stick with it thanks all the same. You on the otherhand might want to look at something that is less stressful as all the frustration cant be good for u.  Yeah sure 'stain



I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
User currently offlineBullpitt From Spain, joined Mar 2004, 871 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3657 times:

You do little service to your clients. you see IB even if you don't like it, is similar to QF and I have flown both. Their level of maintenance knowhow, % of internal market share and wide network, IB in Europe, Spain and America and QF in Oz, and Asia put them on similar status. The service difference has to do with many factors, which I doubt you have the capacity to assimilate, but these include cultural differences, different market and different business environments. If you are in the travel industry do your clients a favor and start selling used cars.  Laugh out loud

You have said it yourself Australina Airlines=low cost. IB is not similar to them so they are no where near a low cost.




Just pulling your leg.
 Laugh out loud



These are my principles but if you don't like them I have others
User currently offlineMarara From Australia, joined Oct 2001, 678 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 3586 times:

oh please.

I have never said that i didnt like IB, infact i prefer them over BA. I dont get a chance to sell flights there arent many occasions when IB is useful ex AU.

Tell my why letting my clients know that they wont receive a meal onboard is bad service? Most Australian travelers expect a meal when flying with a full service carrier as thats how it works here. Just because you dont like it doesnt mean that its wrong.

most of my clients appreciate the fact that someone has gone to the effort of checking things like that. QF and IB may be alike but QF have just moved to improve the quality of its inflight catering. I never said that IB was a LCC I agreed that the fact that they charge for meals was LCCesque

I love the way you dish out insults, then just at the end say ur joking.
Stop being such a condescending toss. And no its not my leg ur pulling.



I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it for hours. Jerome K Jerome
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