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End Of The Road For SAS's Blue 1?  
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7302 posts, RR: 57
Posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5411 times:

Seems that SAS is having difficilty with performance of its Blue 1 operation, which is based in HEL to compete against Finnair. With SAS in trouble themselves, how can they prop up a loss making carrier that doesnt add to the core SAS business. Same can be said for their shareholding in loss making BD and SK.

Blue 1 has reported very poor performance from their new TXL and HAM routes.

Overall, Blue 1 Yields have fallen by 28.9% over the past year, and fuel surcharges arent helping. Even though they cut poor performing HEL DUS and HEL GVA routes. Deciding on HAM and TXL had this has also failed. Losses have tripled to $15.7 million for the same nine month period.

Is this the end of the road for Blue 1? They are supposed to be low cost, but ARJ's arent low cost, nor joining Star is low cost.


The world is really getting smaller these days
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCainanUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2002, 551 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 5330 times:

Didn't Blue1 just enter Star Alliance? Can't see it being the end before they even become a member. The other alliance members voted them in because of what they bring to the table so I cant see them just letting them sink. I CAN see them letting US go simply because of the amount of money they are hemorrhaging daily, but Blue1 is a different kettle of fish.


Cainan Cornelius
User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5319 times:

In relative terms the $15.7 million that Blue1 have lost in 9 months is certainly haemorraging money when you consider their size in relation to US. Star cannot continue if it carries on recruiting ailing carriers such as US and now Blue1. In all reality UA will be bankrupt later this year/early next and BD really could follow them.




Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7302 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5299 times:

Blue 1 only offers regional connections into HEL... hardly earth shattering for Star Alliance if the cease to exist. Blue 1 is only joining Star as a regional carrier - not full membership.

SAS have to decide their future, and Blue1's problems are a distraction for SAS. The carrier should be closed as an expensive error, with any profitable routes simply transferred to LH or SK directly, further enhancing the profitability of SK. BA sold Go as it was a distraction to BA's restructuring, even though it was profitable. Blue1 isn't anywhere near profitable.




The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5224 times:

Is this the end of the road for Blue 1? They are supposed to be low cost, but ARJ's arent low cost, nor joining Star is low cost.

I don't understand the aircraft choice, IMHO B737-600/700 would have been MUCH better, especially considering the compatibility with SAS.

I believe much of the Star Alliance stuff comes down to mileage earning, KF has been operating more and more of SK´s ARN/CPH runs from Finland, and previously you couldn't earn Star Alliance miles on these services. Major disadvantage against AY in my books.

Star is full of second rate stuff in my opinion (i.e. Asiana and Spanair), and they are clearly too big. Although I'm only Sapphire on Oneworld, service seems to be better and upgrades more frequent than on Star (LH*G).

Rgds,

LH747



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineCX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6638 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5119 times:

Isn't there some sort of financial state that a carrier must be in before they are considered for an alliance membership?

User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5078 times:

KF entered as part of SAS, the whole SAS group is not doing too well I guess.

Regional Star partners must be supported by majors.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7302 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5055 times:

"Isn't there some sort of financial state that a carrier must be in before they are considered for an alliance membership?"

Looking at Star, I dont think so... a quick look at the financial position of their member airlines shows what a sorry state the alliance is in financially .


Regional Star partners must be supported by majors.

Majors are looking at surviving themselves... they shouldn't have time to focus on the profitability of others.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineBBADXB From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5049 times:


If Spanair is second rate stuff, in my opinion, Iberia is unclassified stuff, or at least, third rate.

Sorry!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 34
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5049 times:

Regional Star partners must be supported by majors.

Majors are looking at surviving themselves... they shouldn't have time to focus on the profitability of others.


Thus I told you Star is full of B.S. LOT/Spanair/Asiana... Good for some third rate alliance, not Star.

I agree with you, but if you look at the AY domination, I think KF will be a good addition to Star.




Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4720 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4986 times:

Lufthansa, what is wrong with LOT, Spanair and Asiana?

LOT is the national airline in one of the few markets where aviation has potential, namely Eastern Europe. Poland has recently joined the EU wich will increase trade with those countries, and that will be supported by more Businessmen flying to/from Poland. This will increase moneyflows in Poland wich will enable more and more people to go on holidays in Spain, Greece etc. This is not only the case for Poland, but for most Eastern European EU members.

Spanair has a quite extensive domestic network, as well as a resonable european network. Ok, it isn't as big as Iberia, but they do operate a lot of domestic services wich weren't served before by star alliance. Nor ar they 'just a chartercompany', they are a normal airline as well.

Asiana might not have as much intercontinental servises as Korean, but it is a very good extension to the Star Alliance network. Korea is a market where a lot of stuff is manufactured and those need airservices. They serve 12 destionations with 17 routes inside Korea, and 54 cities in 17 countries (cargo not counted).

Lufthansa747, could you please explain why these airlines aren't Star Alliance Worthy?



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7302 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4964 times:

JRadier - I fully agree..

Of all my many domestic economy flights this year - the best were on LOT. OK, so the 733/734's are a little tired, but the on-board service is excellent, and staff very friendly.

Lot is also let down by WAW, and what must be the worst *Gold executive lounge anywhere but the new terminal will resolve those issues.

LOT beats, AZ, IB, EI BD, BA, LH and SK hands down in Economy short-haul product.

[Edited 2004-11-03 15:42:05]


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 34
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4950 times:

Quite simply, Asiana stinks when compared to Korean. KE has better frequence and everything.

Spanair has nothing to offer in addition to Iberia that is alreary a OW member.

Lari.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3515 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4927 times:

"Spanair has nothing to offer in addition to Iberia that is alreary a OW member. "

So... what is your point? Maybe Spanair has nothing extra comparing to Iberia but Iberia is in OneWorld while Spanair is in STAR.


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4913 times:

Quite simply, Asiana stinks when compared to Korean. KE has better frequence and everything

This is hardly a justification for your 'put-down' of Asiana and Spanair. What are your reasons aside from frequency? And what makes the other alliances ' B.S ... third rate

Oneworld and SkyTeam are most definately not third rate.



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24964 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4897 times:

Spanair dont have that many scheduled flights do they? I guess I kinda always thought of them as a charter airline and so was surprised when they joined Star. They do offer a good service on their charter flights it has to be said


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4872 times:

Well,

I have flown on Asiana and Korean too many times. Unfortunately, I have Star gold status. Otherwise I would never choose Asiana. Rude crews, poor service, totally different from KE (SkyTeam) or CX (Oneworld).OZ surely benefits a lot from Star, other airline Gold members surely fly them just for the miles. For service or schedules, I would never choose Asiana.

Spanair - a few charter flights from Scandinavia and what??? Poor joke that Star had to get when IB joined star.





Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 34
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4865 times:

The Star system stinks overall as well, try a HKT-BKK 747 flight. About half of the baggage is stickered "Star Alliance Priority". I hate waiting for my bag at the baggage claim. I fly 100K+ on star yearly, and pften on full business. I do expect more.

Please find something other that 35000 AC miles for Star Gold... :O

I always get better treatment on OW - AY/CX/QF/AA that is.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineTreg From Estonia, joined Oct 2001, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4814 times:

Seems that there is major misunderstanding about Spanair

Spanair dont have that many scheduled flights do they?

Their current daily schedule has approx. 90 charter and 250 scheduled flights. It is NOT charter-only. It is only their side-business.


User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4791 times:

Yes, but Spanair scheduled flights are just like OZ compared to KE.

Star just had to get OZ/JK when KE/IB were lost already.




Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4738 times:

Lufthansa747,

for the HKT-BKK take a 733 from Thai Air Asia. It is a really fun airline  Wink/being sarcastic



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4707 times:

I hate FD with no assigned seating, albeit they are much better than Ryanair. Flown on 9M AAL/M to HKT but I prefer Orient Thai's ancient jumbos or Nok's assigned Nok-Plus seating.


Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineBritair From United Kingdom, joined Aug 1999, 933 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 4632 times:

I'm sorry but I really have to defend Spanair here. Even though I work for BA and our partner is Iberia, I choose Spanair over IB everytime I fly domestically in Spain (roughly 10 flights a year). Their product is miles ahead of Iberia. Sure they dont have as large a network in Europe or worldwide as IB, but their domestic network in Spain is very comparable in size.

They definately cannot be classed as second rate. Why people comment negatively on airlines they have never flown has me baffled!

Spanair are a great airline. As they say in the classics, "Size isnt everything"  Big grin


User currently offlineFinnWings From Finland, joined Oct 2003, 640 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 4499 times:

BestWestern,

Actually the economical situation of Blue 1 is not so bad at all. It is fact that they did losses recently, but those were rather small if you consider that they were expanding capacity and added a lot of new routes during that period. Before those losses KF did actually profit and has quite healthy balance sheet at the moment. I would be more worried about the future of SK than KF actually...

It is true that their HAM and TXL routes aren't doing so well, but most of the routes are extremely profitable especially intra-Scandinavian routes and domestic routes to Oulu and Kuopio. HEL-GVA route suffered from severe payload penalties and it was ceased for that reason.

They are supposed to be low cost, but ARJ's arent low cost, nor joining Star is low cost.

Blue 1 isn't a LCC at all, where did you get that? They are full service regional airline which offer in many terms better product than their parent company SK, including business class and free meal/drink service. When ERA ranked all European regional airlines last year, Blue1 was in 3rd position. Besides, I would say it is A LOT more economical to fly RJ-85/100s on Intra-Scandinavian services than B737-600s which SK use.

Best Regards,
FinnWings


User currently offlinePrebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6536 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4036 times:

The future of Blue1 will not depend upon a small economic loss every now and then.

It will depend upon how much traffic they generate for the mother company SAS.

If they can bring a lot of Finnish customers to ARN and CPH from where they can fill SAS planes going all over Europe or overseas - as an alternative to going by Finnair plus BA or such, then Blue1 will fly forever.

Blue1 is neither a low cost, nor an ordinary regional carrier. They are a feeder airline for the mother company SAS.



Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
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