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Bmi Baby Axe Four Manchester Routes  
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7162 posts, RR: 57
Posted (9 years 11 months 20 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

MAN to BCN, BOD, CDG and MJV are going going gone.

Oh dear, WW can't make it in an airport with no low cost competition....

I know, lets try BHX, home of MYT, FlyBe and Ryanair!, and a considerable part of our EMA catchment area.





The world is really getting smaller these days
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTrident2e From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 20 hours ago) and read 2983 times:

Seems perfectly normal for a LCC to change its network over the winter - Ryanair and easyJet do it as well.

User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24938 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 20 hours ago) and read 2977 times:

Sheesh, if a LCC cant make MAN-BCN work year round though, what hope do they have? I know they have competition from Monarch, but still...MAN has a big enough area for two airlines to BCN surely? Especially with IB dropping the route this winter


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineDiesel1 From UK - Wales, joined Mar 2001, 1638 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 2969 times:

Trident2e that's correct, but none of these routes are particularly seasonal...

BestWestern point taken on the BHX comment, but BHX is hardly 'home to Ryanair' - quite the opposite really as they pulled most their flights from there!

Out of curiosity, why are you so critical of bmiBaby?





[Edited 2004-11-05 11:33:10]


I don't like signatures...
User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 2941 times:

It's not anti BMIbaby views that people like BestWestern and myself feel. It's sheer frustration - there is the potential for a fantastic airline with bmi and baby and the continued mismanagement and trend of cutting routes is so wrong it beggars belief!

If the aircraft that was damaged last night at MAN is beyond repair they really are up the proverbial creek without the paddle.

7LBAC111



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7162 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 2902 times:

Diesel, I am a loyal BMI fan, and a Bmi Diamond Club Gold card-holder who flies frequently with BD ex Heathrow. What really frustrates me about BMI is that they don’t focus anywhere, and over the past five years or so always react in a knee jerk fashion to everyone else in the industry. Baby is a classic example of this. This division lacks direction and vision to become successful.

Why does BD need three sets of management and three AOC’s to run what is a small airline (Regional, Mainline and Baby)?
Why does BD need two brands? (Bmi and Bmi Regional), and the necessary brand costs to promote these names in the UK.
Is BD a business airline… if so why do they sacrifice business route frequency to BRU, CDG, to fly to NAP, VCE, etc. If not, why isn’t BD a low cost carrier.
If BD is a network carrier, why are they starting a LBA LCY service on leased ATR’s
If Baby is a leisure airline, why do they fly domestic business routes?
If Baby is a low cost carrier, why do they code share on ATRs ex CWL?
If Baby is a low cost carrier, why can I use the Airport lounges when I fly with them?

What’s obvious to me is that BD and WW are fighting for the same passengers. Leisure and Business routes need to be successfully marketed together.

My action plan would be:
Drop the Baby brand… Close the Baby and Regional AOC’s and management structures. All aircraft under the BD AOC and management structure with one head office in London, taking many of the low cost concepts learnt at WW over to BD.

Re-commence BD operations as BD ex MAN and BHX focusing on business and leisure destinations, with a quality product. Big focus on winning the Manchester market.

Refocus BMI regional onto serving Manchester more than Scotland.

Close WW’s operations in MME, CWL and EMA. Maintain the few profitable routes using W patterns from other airports. (MANCDGCWLCDGMAN)




The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineDiesel1 From UK - Wales, joined Mar 2001, 1638 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 2876 times:

Mark

I understand your frustration - the chopping and changing indicates a lack of vision and focus.

Don't believe they'd be up the proverbial creek if the aircraft in last last night's incident is badly damaged or a write off - either bmi will bale them out (subject to aircraft availability) or they'll lease/charter another aircraft (European Air Charter...?).
Wonder whether it's all covered by insurance...?




(Edited to add thanks to Best Western for his comprehensive response)

[Edited 2004-11-05 11:51:47]


I don't like signatures...
User currently offlineSimon Cooper From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 404 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 2855 times:

This is fine, all these negative views and opinions. Spare a thought though for peoples lives in all this. People who work for Baby and are happy working there! You lot who continually put Baby down really get on my nerves!

User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24938 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 19 hours ago) and read 2847 times:

Simon, it's not the people on the frontline people are putting down...it's the management. Fair enough, I aint ever flown on BMI Baby but Im sure they have great crews. It just appears that the management dont know what they are going to do from one day to the next.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

GKirk is dead right Simon - where does anyone on here slate the crews and frontline staff?

BMIBaby are great to fly on!




Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7162 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

Simon. I like BD, and want them to survive and grow… BD (which would include WW) would become a stronger company focused on growing their business with one brand that the customer likes and enjoys and is willing to pay more for.

If BA can beat EasyJet from Gatwick through providing good service, BD can do the same against a weaker Jet2 in Manchester and weaker FlyBe in BHX. This would secure many more roles than currently in place – perhaps at the expense of over an over-complicated management structure. As the low cost market matures the majority will be willing to pay more for value over poor service... BA are finding that out to their benefit.

If BD and WW dont change there will be less job security in a loss making division (WW) of a loss making company (BD) with struggling owners (SK, LH). Working in a loss making airline isn't fun... I’ve been there and bought the T-Shirt.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineSkymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 18 hours ago) and read 2830 times:

Well said Bestwestern. The only thing I think you need to add is that BMI should put a few Jungle Jets back into EMA to run the fairly strong former business routes to GLA, EDI, AMS and CDG (much as they've already converted BRU back to a "real" service).

Simon Cooper - I'm sorry for the staff at the sharp end, but the bmi management are now reaping what they previously sowed with Baby. Don't blame the customers who knock baby, blame the management who set the airline up under what was originally a flawed concept. Baby was a synical and relatively unplanned knee-jerk response to Go moving into EMA, which was only partly successful in achieving what it set out to do. It is now beginning to backfire as their scattergun and unfocussed approach has resulted in them moving capacity around the UK to try to find profitable work (rather than identifying the profitable work first and then operating it with commitment and conviction), and as they realise that whatever they say about being "low cost" they can't usually compete with the true low-cost operators such as Ryanair and Easyjet (as witnessed by their embarrassing pull outs at LGW and MAN, and the continous downsizing at EMA).

bmi alienated and disenfranchised many passengers in the East Midlands region, particularly in the business community, when they suddenly withdrew from EMA and put in Baby. That left some of us who used EMA, particularly for connections over airports like AMS and CDG, without any viable locally departing services (because of the lack of through check-in, etc). So don't expect me and people like me to feel sorry for baby if the model doesn't work as well as you might have hoped, because its bmi's lack of commitment to its long-standing customers that is directly responsible for me flying 30+ times this year out of BHX with airlines like LH, SK and BA, whereas in previous years I would have flown a similar amount of times out of EMA.

I am actually disappointed that Baby are pulling out of Manchester - MAN can keep Baby. The sooner we are rid of Baby at EMA the better however, whatever the consequences of that might be for those involved.

Andy


User currently offlineUK_Dispatcher From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2001, 2595 posts, RR: 30
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 17 hours ago) and read 2739 times:

I have seen photos this morning of the damaged WW a/c (Boeing 737-300 G-ODSK), and it was badly damaged. The impact of the collision with the 767 twisted the aircraft and buckled the nosewheel, and the bulk of the damage was to the stabilizer, a large part of which ended up lying on the taxiway. It looks like there may also be damage to the fuselage around the stabilizer. Not good at all.....

A Titan Airways 757-200, G-ZAPU was filling in for G-ODSK this morning.


User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 17 hours ago) and read 2719 times:

WW shutting down a hub ? Wow, that's never happened before ! Only 86 to go.

BD would be better off ditching WW completely - regardless of how good a service they offer on the ground and on board, they are not able to generate the critical mass necessary to be a successful LCC. The route selection appears to be entirely based on whatever the Marketing department read in the Travel Section of the Sunday Telegraph the previous weekend, and shows very little in the way of a coherent strategy. New hubs every season, that are rapidly downgraded to one daily service then canned. This is not how you build a loyal repeat customer base.

BD need to figure this out pronto - they're focussing on the wrong markets. I really like flying BD, Diamond Club is my Star Alliance Frequent Flyer card of choice, they offer great service etc etc, but they just aren't on a par with carriers like BA when it comes to frequencies and timings. I had a choice between BD and BA to fly home for Christmas - fares on both were the same and very reasonable, but BA have 4 daily returns LHR-NCE, at convenient times, whereas BD only have 1, which would get me to LHR at 2155 !! This is not enough to make a dent in the market. Sort your priorities out !!


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 17 hours ago) and read 2713 times:

Ian,

What is the situation at MAN surrounding BMIBaby now? From your perspective you muct hear all sorts. Anything interesting?
Also, how did the Excel 767 fair?

[Edited 2004-11-05 13:46:19]


Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3750 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 17 hours ago) and read 2693 times:

they need to be part of a european strategy that includes Germanwings.
Is there a chance that they could encourage U2 to leave EMA?


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7162 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 15 hours ago) and read 2612 times:

JPGH I had a choice between BD and BA to fly home for Christmas - fares on both were the same and very reasonable

No EuJet then?

selection appears to be entirely based on whatever the Marketing department read in the Travel Section of the Sunday Telegraph the previous weekend

Sunday times actually... why do you think some low cost carriers ended up in REK for gods sake  Smile  Smile

Only 86 to go.

I was right the other day when I excluded Gatwick....

they need to be part of a european strategy that includes Germanwings Richard Alliances are no excuse for running a bad business. Hence the failure of Star to help its carriers profitability.




The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3750 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 15 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

I was suggesting a bit of joining up with other star LCCs, maybe even in branding, how many prospective passengers know about easyJet switzerland, for instance.
Joining up would save on advertising and brand promotional costs, which is precisely why Baby failed at LGW.
I agree that the basics of business are very important for success.


User currently offlineZkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1707 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 14 hours ago) and read 2546 times:

ive flown with them once from ema to jer, and the flight only had something like 25 people on a 733, seems ww are not ready for the lcc market yet, think they should remerge back to bd.


NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineFoxy From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 179 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 13 hours ago) and read 2472 times:

I don't understand why BD don't focus more effort towards MAN. It has a huge catchment area and is serviced to lots of other international destinations so would be attractive for people changing flights. Surely it could murder BA at MAN if it actually took the effort especially if there was more service from other STAR airlines?

User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7380 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 10 hours ago) and read 2390 times:


Back in July when they revealed the MAN winter services, they included the following paragraphs in the release:

"The airline will also be offering daily flights to Knock (Connaught) and Cork, regular departures to Belfast (International), Alicante, Jersey, Malaga and Palma and a weekly service to Murcia. Three based bmibaby aircraft will be operating over one hundred and twenty flights per week throughout Europe from Manchester.

Tony Davis, managing director, bmibaby, said:
"We are continuing to offer new routes that we introduced in March to Jersey and Knock. Unfortunately, the availability of aircraft and slot restrictions have forced us to suspend services to Paris and Bordeaux, however, we're hoping to be able to reintroduce these at some point in the future."

In addition, MAN-PRG is now 13 weekly up from daily.

David


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