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$208 Per Hour?  
User currently offlineDayflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7104 times:

Read this!

http://money.iwon.com/jsp/nw/nwdt_rt.jsp?section=news&news_id=dji-00086620041105&feed=dji&date=20041105&cat=INDUSTRY

Thats $432,000 per year. No wonder the airlines are seeking more pay cuts. I seriously doubt if Southwest would pay that for an A-330 or 7e7 pilot if they had the type.


One Nation Under God
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN771AN From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7038 times:

Flying hours... they don't work 40 hours a week.

User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26354 posts, RR: 76
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7027 times:

Um, first off, the article was wrong in saying that they have pay scales for the A330-800 and -900, no such thing is even proposed. They may, however, have scales for the A380-800 and -900.

Second, you based their pay on 40 hours a week, which pilots don't work. Normal is 80 hours per month, if that, so you should cut that pay in half at the very least. Actually, WN pays on the high side of the average for 737/A320 pilots, including about twice as much as US under their newest pilot robbery.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDayflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7008 times:

Second, you based their pay on 40 hours a week, which pilots don't work. Normal is 80 hours per month, if that, so you should cut that pay in half at the very least. Actually, WN pays on the high side of the average for 737/A320 pilots, including about twice as much as US under their newest pilot robbery.

80 hours a month, thanks for the clarification on the hours; it still works out to about $200,00 a year. Thats as much as a senior VP at most companies I know of. How is that a rip-off? Sounds like a great living to me.






One Nation Under God
User currently offlineCaptcjmac From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7006 times:

I don't know how you did your math but its no where near $432,000. If they get paid $208/hr they are probably guaranteed 75 hours a month. (Some airlines only guarantee 72). 208*75=$15,600/month. $15,600/month*12 months=$187,200/year. That is still a lot of money but a little off your projection. Also, this article is talking about Northwest...not Southwest. I hope to see that 7e7 soon!!! It would look amazing in NWA and KLM colors!!

User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6932 times:

"Second, you based their pay on 40 hours a week, which pilots don't work. Normal is 80 hours per month, if that,"


Pilots only get paid for about 80 hours per month. We work a lot more than that. I was on duty an average of over 40 hours per week last month.


User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26354 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6825 times:

My post about WN was as a comparison to NW and other "legacy" carriers who claim their labor costs are too high to make money. BTW, AS, who just reported a very nice profit also pay their pilots very, very well. $208 is a nice living, but like Bucky said, they actually work a lot more than the hours they are paid. Think about it this way, I am in law school and when all is said and done, I will have paid about $110K for school and will, at the most, take responsibability for 50-100 lives at any one time. An airline pilot pays something like $150K for their schooling and takes responsability for closer to 200 lives several times a day and will still make less than I will, all while being responsible for multi-million dollar assets and the reputation for a massive corporation that relies on its public image to gain business. They deserve every cent they make, and really more.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6775 times:

Pilots only get paid for about 80 hours per month. We work a lot more than that. I was on duty an average of over 40 hours per week last month

Bucky is correct. We all see the $200+ an hour and think flight crews are rolling in money. Which is true to some part, but you also need to remember they are paid only on the Flight Hour. You might say 'Fasten seat belt sign to fasten seat belt sign'. The hours spent in the crew room in between flights, or on weather delays they do not get paid.....The time spent in Flight Planning to Debrief they are not paid. I think I read some where that for every one hour of flight time, they average 2 hours of non paid time, so there actual 'working average' is more then the standard 2020 hrs per year.

..and no, that would be $208,000 a year (or there about) as flight crews can fly no more then 1000hrs a year.

[Edited 2004-11-05 23:45:37]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineJumboJim747 From Australia, joined Oct 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 45
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6756 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Bucky707
An average of 40 hours a week they kept you very busy.
Good luck for the Christmas roster.  Smile



On a wing and a prayer
User currently offlineAv8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6537 times:

Some people just do not understand what this means. That rate is for hours that the engines are running ONLY. Pilots (from what I have seen and read) are doing job-related work and are away from home FAR more hours than what they are paid for. A also, pilots spend circa 100,000 USD to get their training in order to be elidgible for a paid flying job. Most pilots get paid MUCH, MUCH less than that figure which you stated for their ENTIRE career (possibly with the exception of the last few years). Pilots working at some regionals (especially first officers) qualify for food stamps! Can you imaging how insulted they would be if everyone in the public says that they get paid so much for such a "virtually part-time job(I mean they only work 80 hours a month!)" and they are the reasons that the airlines are doing bad? Also, the money to pay the crew is, I would guess, less than 10% of your ticket cost on an airline. The crews' pay is not soley responsible for airlines doing bad. There are pilots out there (a majority I might add) that get paid JACK SQUAT for working their rears off for the airline while CEOs and management take multi-million dollar bonuses. That coupled with high fuel costs are whats making the airlines suffer right now, NOT pilot pay. Not even by a longshot!

[Edited 2004-11-06 01:50:26]

User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6490 times:

Let's put further perspective. I know educational "consultants" (basically, an experienced teacher who can motivate groups of adults to change their minds) who make at least 100 an hour, and possibly even more than 208 an hour, depending on who employs you. The difference in training and experience, along with responsibility, is huge. I would say pilots are underpaid. Also, I know sales people (who may not even have attended college) who make more than 200K a year.
FLY2LIM



Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4745 posts, RR: 43
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6488 times:

I was told that senior Air Canada and Canadian Airline Pilots get paid CAD $ 175,000 per year (during the merger time)...any truth to that.

U must also remember that alongwith the pilots salary, no matter how high or low it is, they get free 4-5 star hotel accommodation if its a medium or long haul flight + a spending allowance especially on Intl transatlantic-pacific flights and a few other bonuses here and there as well.



User currently offlineILSApproach From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 410 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6413 times:

http://www.airlinepilotpay.com/


check this out.


User currently offlineJetjeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1430 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6258 times:

I picked up that iwon virus on that thread,


i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6136 times:

What is the flying cap at NW per month? I'm sure senior captains aren't even logging the maximum amount.

A pilot must be pretty tenured at his respected airline to be pulling over $200k a year. I'm not sure of the percentage of pilots doing so, much it's not a huge amount I can tell you that.

My CFI is an International Captain and Check Airman on the 757 and 767 for
AA and has been with the company for 26 years. I finally got him to tell me he's making alittle over $200k a year.

Must be nice.

AA777jr


User currently offlineFSPilot747 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 3599 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6118 times:

When are non-pilots gonna get their heads out of their asses and actually

1. know what they're talking about, and
2. stop thinking every pilot makes that cushy $200,000 a year.


Pilots are underpaid as it is. Ask a Skywest or Mesaba pilot what he makes. Airline pilots will make good money after being there for a lot of years. Only the gray-hairs will be making that 200,000 a year..and only a few years before retirement.

FSP


User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 6008 times:

Based on those pay scales, why are DL pilots paid so much more? Based on 12-years on a 772 a pilot at DL is paid $320/hr compared to AA at $193/hr.......no wonder they are bleeding money. How can you compete at those rates?

User currently offlineLtbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13028 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5877 times:

The irony as to the cost of pilot labor is that if you are a large company, and need to hire a lawyer, you are going to get billed by that attorney or firm $400/ hour or even more for top trial partners. You will be billed easily $200/hr for junior associates. They in turn get about 1/3rd of that. Worse, you pay for every hour they are at the job at work, and are not limited in the hours per day, week or month for their services. In some contengency situations, these attorneys may make several times over $200/hour with their 1/3rd of the total judgment of they may win. The corporate defendant may have to get the $400/hour partner to defend vs. John Edwards types.
Who is worth a lot more? A Pilot/FO with the responsability well described above or some lawyer without anywhere the responsibility of lives in their hands?


User currently offlineSjc>sfo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5748 times:

Ltbewr-

Apparently the attorney... or at least the market says so.

D


User currently offlineIL76TD From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5655 times:

i know some pilots over here that get angry if they don't fly 250-300 hrs per month! US pilots have it easy.

User currently offlineAdamWright From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5422 times:

"Yeah Detriot Approach.. we can take a couple more turns in the hold.. no problem"  Big grin

[Edited 2004-11-06 08:23:06]

User currently offlineBoeingfever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 54
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5389 times:

When are non-pilots gonna get their heads out of their asses and actually

1. know what they're talking about, and
2. stop thinking every pilot makes that cushy $200,000 a year.


Apparently you haven't the way you talk, sounds like yours is still up there.

Also no one said, "all pilots make $200k a year" so chill out.

BoeingFever777,



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5363 times:

that website for airliner pilots pay is bunk anways I think. It needs to be SERIOUSLY updated...its a joke.
 Smile


User currently offlineAkjetblue From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 790 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4887 times:

In the post Nine-Eleven economy, airlines really need to reconsider the pilot payscale, with fuel prices as high as they are and poor management something has gotta give. If you're not going to give more money (when you actually make a profit) to the guys loading your luggage, and checking you in at the counter, the F/As keeping you safe on the aircraft or the guys putting fuel in your plane, then the pilots probably shouldn't being getting a pay increase either.

Here's a little something to think about:

My dream is to be a pilot. Funny thing is that I'd do it for what I'm making now. Actually, I'd do it for a lot less. As long as my bills were paid, and my partner and I had food to eat... I'd pretty much do it for free.

I understand that not every pilot makes over $200k a year, some work the clock to their favor, some don't. Some pilots love their job, some don't.

I know pilots making a lot more than $200k a year, and a lot of pilots making a heck of a lot less. IMHO $100k to $250k is a good average of what's really going on with pilots pay. But for me, working an airline operation on the ground with customers, bags and whatever else is take to get me in that seat will be worth it to me. Cuz right now it would take me 6-10 years to make what some pilots can make in a year. In all honesty I really love to fly, and to be able to do what I love for a job would be better than any gift anyone could give me.

Let me just say this:

If you're a pilot working for an airline, making big bucks or small: don't take your job for granted! Remember that there are people who would give anything to sit in that seat, and will do anything to get your job. Think about the next time you're upset that you're pay got cut from $200k to $100k. It might change your way of living, but you still have the dream job of thousands of people that can't afford flight school. You're still making 4 to 10 times what i'm earning, while I make sure you, your aircraft, your crew and customer are safe on the ground while you're in my city.

See you guys later when I'm in the left seat,

-Philzy



Save a horse! Ride a Cowboy!
User currently onlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4677 times:

I was chatting with a BA pilot here in San Francisco and he told me that he can only work maximum 900 hours/year...which is around 75 hours/month...which turns out to be around 35-40 round trips from SFO-LHR per year.

He gave me an intersting quote: "if you want to fly for enjoyement, join the RAF, and if you want to fly for a good living, fly commercial aviation".....



"Up the Irons!"
25 Post contains images Boo25 : Yes, and these same BA pilots earning vast salaries and working up to 75 hrs a month then berate the BA cabin crew who work up to 168 hours a month fo
26 1millionflyer : folks, over 1/2 of pilots are flying RJ's in commercial aviation now. Captians 60K Except those poor Mesa guys making ALOT less. F/O 25K to 30K if you
27 Bucky707 : "Bucky707 An average of 40 hours a week they kept you very busy" Hey, I'm not complaining. I just hate it when misinformed people think airline pilots
28 UALDUDE : No one ever seems to consider what it takes to get the "80 hrs" a month for a pilot. Duty rigs at UA are running around 360 hrs. a month right now to
29 AZjetgeek : Dayflyer, why do you begrudge pilots that $208 per hour? As others in this forum, especially the pilots, have pointed out, they DO NOT get paid for an
30 FSPilot747 : I won't argue professional pilot salaries with someone who's hobbies include X-Box. "I'd pretty much do it for free." And that's one of the problems w
31 Wbmech : Pilot pay equaling their responsibility and training? In that case why doesn't an aircraft mechanic make a whole lot more than he does? No one thinks
32 4Left : For a pilot to make his or her bones they must pay the piper first. This is not unlike any other profession. Hell even hookers need to work up to the
33 Yu138086 : As an Airline CEO/CFO my first priority is to ensure the continuing existence of the airline. That said, ALL costs, including pilot pay scales, would
34 Goboeing : Yu138086 Go and fly African charters in Africa or in the Canadian bush if you don't like it. What an idiotic statement. In a completely developed, est
35 5NEOO : To say that pilots of U.S. air carriers should go to Africa an fly charters or bush planes in Canada is ridiculous Hey, hey, leave us out of this argu
36 N1120a : And I am sure you make much more than that 200 grand. Also, like we have said over and over, most pilots don't make 200K. There are a whole bunch who
37 Av8trxx : "i know some pilots over here that get angry if they don't fly 250-300 hrs per month! US pilots have it easy." How is that even possible? Easy you say
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