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Ferrying Troops Home On A/c?  
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3979 times:

What airlines are taking home troops from the Middle East? Do they fly free? F class? I think I noticed someone on here gave up their F class seats so two service men could fly home in style.

My grandfather was a ace figher pilot in WW2 flying in the South Pacific. He recalls being flown home by two Pan Am pilots.

Any stories?

AA777jr

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingfever777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 409 posts, RR: 53
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3956 times:

This is a old article but might shed some light.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/iraq/1772155

BoeingFever777,



Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3773 times:

The two main ones I know are World Airways and Omni Air International.

I flew on World Airways when I came home from Iraq last year. It was a wonderful experience (flying on World, I mean).



"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineLtbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13170 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3715 times:

Usually for troops comming home from Iraq/Afganistan (via Kuwait I think) for leave, they will be transported to someplace like BWI, but they have to get home from there. Home within the USA may be a long way from Baltimore so they do get subsidized airfares on airlines to an airport near their home. Around last Christmas, there were several stories of biz/1st class pax switching seats into the coach seats occupied by soldiers on leave from Iraq/Afganistan to honor their hard dangerous duty.

User currently offlineVatry From Ireland, joined Sep 2004, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3679 times:

In addition to Omni and World, North American 763's and AmTrans with 752,753 and L1011's



User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3668 times:

Usually for troops comming home from Iraq/Afganistan (via Kuwait I think) for leave, they will be transported to someplace like BWI, but they have to get home from there.

Yes, we flew out of Kuwait International (not the main terminal, the U.S. military/customs area). Our flight was on a WO DC-10-30 Kuwait to Shannon, IR to Bangor, Maine to Riverside, CA. Long ride.

Now I think ATL Hartsfield Jackson-Int'l in the main POE (point of entry) for returning troops. I'm sure there are others, but I know ATL bears most of the traffic.

Home within the USA may be a long way from Baltimore so they do get subsidized airfares on airlines to an airport near their home.

Yes, and this is partially why WO (specifically) uses ATL a great deal. Their headquarters is in the Atlanta area (Peachtree City, I think) and troops are able to pick up connecting flights on DL to their home of record.

Clipper002 can elaborate more on the specifics of WO's ops, so hopefully he'll check this forum out.

Around last Christmas, there were several stories of biz/1st class pax switching seats into the coach seats occupied by soldiers on leave from Iraq/Afganistan to honor their hard dangerous duty.

I flew AA SAN-DFW-DAY when I was discharged fom the Marine Corps and finally came home for good a week after I returned from Iraq. On the SAN-DFW leg, the Captain gave me (and two fellow Iraq vets) an open alcohol tab. On the DFW-DAY leg, AA upgraded us to biz class. I'm not sure if biz class pax gave up their seats or if they were just unoccupied to begin with.



"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3631 times:

The 4 carriers operating R&R missions are World, ATA, Omni and N. American. Both WOA and Omni operate every other day from ATL to FRA and KWI. ATA and N. American do the same thing but from DFW and FRA and KWI. In addition to the R&R flights we also are moving troops from all over the country into KWI and a variety of bases in S.W. Asia. You don't hear too much about these missions because of security concerns.

Our offices are indeed in Peachtree City, GA about 20 miles south of ATL.

Ed



Ed
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3599 times:

The UK use Flyjet 757s, and lease Air Luxor A333s quite a lot. The Tristars are pax capable as well, but its not uncommon to see commercial stuff in and out of Brize Norton (i live rigth next to the runway! - love those VC10s and Tristars). We also get Il76s and An124s quite a lot.

Saw a virgin coloured red tail on the tarmac this weekend - only saw the tail and only for a fraction of a second, but it looked very much like an old livery A343 - not seen them here yet, but its possible - dunno if VS have any old livery A343s still - i think the oldest one still in the old livery was "plane sailing" G-VSEA last time i looked...Anyone care to enlighten me? Obviously if they dont have any old livery frames left, then it wasnt a VS plane i saw. Positive it wasnt new livery. Anyone know?



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineJetBlast From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1231 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3575 times:

I am at BWI. Both World and Omni fly to here and yes they do ferry troops home.

JetBlast @ BWI  Smile/happy/getting dizzy



Speedbird Concorde One
User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3474 times:

ATA is biggie that our Wing seems to get. I've done the L-1011s before.
Also flown Continental 777s, and seen United 747s. Along with what folks mentioned above.
The flights I used are not normal rotators so we avoided the big civilian hub bases like BWI, ATL and DFW. We go into Bangor, or Pease, or just straight from Shannon, Ire. to Tinker.

The L-1011s were old but nice, and I am glad I got to fly on some.
We used to get paid $500 as a squadron to clean them on the ramp at Prince Sultan, in Saudi, since they had no ground team. Funny stuff, good times.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Life Is Not A Parker Posey Movie


User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3451 times:

In addition to the R&R flights we also are moving troops from all over the country into KWI and a variety of bases in S.W. Asia.

Yea, Ed I think I mentioned in another forum how one of the WO f/as was joking with me on my flight home, and she said, "World Airways flies where noone else will."

It sounds to be very true.



"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26718 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3426 times:

WN offers ultra-cheap walk up fares to returning soldiers, especially out of BWI.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineTT737FO From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 472 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3357 times:

World is definitely the darling of AMC. We run into a World Crew every now and then at "parts unknown". The Patriot Express will disappear, but that may free up their airframes to do more on-demand...and right now it seems the AMC has plenty of it.

From what I heard, ATA is going to take a real good look at the cost feasibility of running more of its L1011s through D-Checks (time is close to coming due). If it's not cost-effective, there won't be any more L1011s.

In the old days, there were a plethora of carriers doing CRAF/AMC--Tower, Carnival, Reno (domestically), Northwest, World, Continental, ATA, Rich, Evergreen, Sun Country, and FedEX (yep, they had an ex-Flying Tiger 747 running PAX rotators in the Far East).

Tower, Continental, Reno and Northwest would never change their seating configuration, so you would get AMC charters with F/C/Y or F/Y configurations. In fact, Northwest had the Patriot Express Contract for a full year in the Far East. They ran it with a 747-200 in F/C/Y. Rank got you a wide seat.


User currently offlineMissedApproach From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3329 times:

Whenever we couldn't get service air (ie the A310s were busy on other taskings) we were flown on charters- lowest bid wins! Air Transat L1011, Royal A310 & good old Tower Air 747. I think we may have put them out of business actually, they took about 4 days to get us to Kosovo (I'm sure there were contract penalties) & filed for bankruptcy about a month later. But that is another story...  Big grin


Can you hear me now?
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3301 times:

You will on occassion see an NA or a TZ a/c doing the flights out of ATL, I'm guessing on occassions when WO and OAI don't have the lift available. WO and TZ used to be the main AMC operators, but over the last year or so OAI has taken over more of the flights from TZ.

User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3242 times:

There's a big difference between R&R missions and simply moving troops in and out of the theater. There are constant requirements to bring troops home and to replace them with fresh personnel. This type of activity occurs on a daily basis and the only way it can be accomplished is if the scheduled carriers offer airlift in addition to the non-skeds. This is the whole reason why the CRAF program is in existence, although it is not currently activated. DL, CO and UA are all offering airlift for these missions. NW prefers to stay out of the foray as does AA. It benefits all of the CRAF carriers to see that it is not activated, which is one reason why the skeds are willing to add a/c to provide a/c for these movements.

Ed



Ed
User currently offlineN276AASTT From US Virgin Islands, joined Jan 2004, 620 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3142 times:

As stated before, World Airways, Omni Air International, American Trans Air, and North American are the regulars. As far as seating is concerned (First and Coach). It's the luck of the draw, meaning which airline your on.

When I went to the desert last year it was on an Omni Air International DC-10. Their plane was outfitted with a small business class cabin in front with most of the plane in coach. I actually scored a seat in BC (assigned by the computer) the whole trip over. I'm just a lowly airman in the Air Force and there were officers on board who were seated in coach.

On the way home, we flew on a World Airways MD-11. This time I was assigned to coach. It just depends.

I have seen American Airlines 777's making the trips over and I have heard of US Airways and also Continental lending some planes. I think that at some point in time, all the majors, who are capable of doing so, deploy their equipment and personnel on a couple of runs.



Dejale Caer tu el Peso! YOMO
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3121 times:

As an ex-AMC passenger service guy I can tell you that the charter carriers i.e. World & ATA pretty much ran a one class operation. If I gave anybody a special seat it was for E-9s & O-6 and above and it was facing bulkhead or row one.

BTW: World had one MD11 (N279WA I think) with premium & coach sections. It also had the remnants of an Aer Lingus paint scheme so it was probably setup for scheduled service with them. AMC would get it once in a while.

When we got the mainline carriers (NW, AA, CO) it was not unusual to have an E-1 in one of the premium seats....


User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3091 times:

SATL382G,
N279 is in a dual config because it was operating HNL/LAS charters. The a/c you're talking about is N272 which few for 2 years for Aer Lingus and was painted green in their livery. That a/c is also in a dual config, but has been repainted to be completely white like the rest of our fleet. The reason we left these 2 a/c in a dual config is that the AMC movements call for each passenger and equipment to weigh 400 lbs. At that weight we can only carry 312 passengers, so there is no real reason to reconfig back to an EY config.

Ed



Ed
User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3066 times:

There's a big difference between R&R missions and simply moving troops in and out of the theater.

That's exactly correct. The R&R missions seem to be more consistent in terms of O&D routes and scheduling (as consistent as the military gets, anyways), whereas the deployment and retrograde missions are only able to happen when funding is available (DoD transportation funding seems to come in spurts/chunks) and when mission requirements dictate they be in/out of theater.

We flew a C-5 into theater b/c our mission requirements gave us a three-day window to be in theater once we had completed our predeployment training...and during this window there was no AMC funding available to put us on a civilian charter. A day after we left, this changed and the funding was available.

As I said before, we flew a WO DC-10-30 out of theater that took us to Shannon, IR...Bangor, Maine (of all places) and then back to March ARB in Cali. I was at least expecting us to land at a major hub (ATL, ORD, DFW, etc) but it didn't happen.

March ARB seemed to be the big embark point for any Marine units from the West Coast that weren't going to war by ship.

I have seen American Airlines 777's making the trips over and I have heard of US Airways and also Continental lending some planes. I think that at some point in time, all the majors, who are capable of doing so, deploy their equipment and personnel on a couple of runs.

That is also correct. To my understanding, the DoD receives a certain number of planes to AMC...whether they're from regular charter carriers like WO and OAI, or from legacies like US, DL, AA, CO and others...to ferry our boys in and out of theater. These planes and any associated crews are contracted for a set period of time to do only these missions. I believe this is what Clipper002 referred to as CRAF (Civilian Reserve....Air Force....??). I don't know the acronym.

As an ex-AMC passenger service guy I can tell you that the charter carriers i.e. World & ATA pretty much ran a one class operation. If I gave anybody a special seat it was for E-9s & O-6 and above and it was facing bulkhead or row one.

Yea, I can't remember if the WO DC-10-30 we were on had a biz class config or not. I doubt it. All I know is that the officers got to sit up front while the troops (like me) had to fill in from the back-forward...which was fine, b/c we didn't want to sit with the officers anyway.  Smile





"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 weeks ago) and read 3038 times:

There are 2 major "teams" that bid on DOD entitlement. These "teams" are made up of both scheduled and non-scheduled operators, each of whom commits a number of a/c to CRAF, if it is activated. On the FEDEX team, ATA and OMNI are the 2 major carriers and the scheduled carriers get the leftovers that these 2 can't operate . On our team, we are the major passenger carrier and DL, CO and UA get whatever flights we cannot operate. North American is on their own this year and have very little entitlement. The entitlement percentage is determined by the number an type of a/c each carrier pledges to CRAF. World is by far the largest contractor for AMC, which is why you could probably end up on one of our flights.

We never operated any dual config DC-10's, so even if you sat in the back, you had the same seat pitch as the front of the a/c.

Ed



Ed
User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 weeks ago) and read 3016 times:

We never operated any dual config DC-10's, so even if you sat in the back, you had the same seat pitch as the front of the a/c.

That's what I figured. I guess the officers just wanted to feel like they were sitting in first class  Smile

Just curious, Clipper002...if I wanted to find out which WO a/c I flew home on back in 7/2003, could I even manage doing that? I'm betting "no," but I didn't know if there was a way to go about it.



"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3008 times:

Just give me the date and I'll supply the a/c.

Ed



Ed
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2991 times:

So a a soldier coming home doesn't jump on a UA or DL flight out of Iraq, where does he get on their a/c?

AA777jr


User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2987 times:

No they don't have any choices of who they fly. They are assigned to a flight. Most come home from Kuwait to ATL or DFW. Entire units coming home will be brought to their base. There are several other airfileds in the area that are semi-classified that we use also to pick up units.

Ed



Ed
25 Aa777jr : So DL UA etc operate flights into Kuwait specifically to pick up returning troops? AA777jr
26 Clipper002 : They only operate the missions that the 4 non-skeds (WO, ATA, Omni and N.American) can't handle. They do not operate any R&R missions at all. Ed
27 ATLhomeCMH : Ed- If I remember correctly, it was 7/7/2003...a Monday. We left KWI late in the evening (like 10:30 or 11pm) and were routed KWI-Shannon-Bangor-March
28 Clipper002 : The BGR stop tells me that was a DC-10. N353 left KWI at 0045lcl on the 8th, arriving at RIV at 0357 lcl on the 9th. N352 left KWI at 0605 on the 8th
29 ATLhomeCMH : Ed- N353 left KWI at 0045lcl on the 8th, arriving at RIV at 0357 lcl on the 9th. This was the one. It refreshed my memory. We left on a Tuesday, not a
30 Sacflyer : May they all be home - safe, sound, and soon!!!!
31 Ein145 : I notice a lot of ATA, North American and World ac in SNN en route to and from the US to the middle east. I think they seem to be the main carriers.
32 Clipper002 : Ein145, We have not used SNN for almost 2 years now and I don't believe ATA, Omni or N. American do either. It is far cheaper for us to go through Rhe
33 Post contains links Burnsie28 : Troops at Fort Carson in Colorado Springs, use anything from Northwest 742's, AA 772's, Omni DC-10's etc. I got a couple of pics, one of which shows i
34 Post contains images UnitedTristar : UA has 3 747's dedicated to these missions...very good money! Seen frequently transiting through PRG -m
35 Lt-AWACS : Ein145, I passed through Shannon on an ATA L-1011 in August 02, and we had some folks go back through in Decemeber 02. That is the last ATA I can conf
36 NWAFA : When we use our 747's for the troops...the Higher up levels sit in the Business Class section along with the Load Master and his team of loaders....it
37 CKT523 : CHRISBA777ER Flyjet do operate military services, i used to operate them alot. Usual run is MAN to Brize Norton empty, then on to RAF Akritiri, some g
38 Wjcandee : Clipper002 is always spot-on when it comes to info regarding World. However, he's a little misinformed regarding EINN. ATA still uses it as a stop; in
39 Wjcandee : Also, for what it's worth, North American still uses EINN (SNN) as well. They had a 757 flying EINN-JFK today, for example. All the best, Bill
40 Post contains images ATLhomeCMH : Clipper002 is always spot-on when it comes to info regarding World. However, he's a little misinformed regarding EINN Yea, Clipper002 is the man when
41 Lt-AWACS : There is fresh Guiness at Shannon, a great little bar, I loved drinking at Shannon LOL Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns, Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate
42 Post contains images ATLhomeCMH : Yea, that little bar is cool. By the time we got to EINN it was like 0700 or so and I was surprised the bar was even open....then I remembered it was
43 Clipper002 : My apologies. We actually did transit SNN 8 times this year. We used to use it on a regular basis until we started to get some notice from so not so n
44 Wjcandee : Ed, PLEASE never even think about apologies. You are a wonderful source of always-accurate information, and I can't tell you how much I personally enj
45 Clipper002 : Thanks Bill. Actually the one that burned them up the most was N272WA which was still in its' Aer Lingus paint scheme. We had some fun with that one.
46 Post contains images ATLhomeCMH : Yea, Ed, no apologies needed...everyone here values your expertise.
47 LV : I always like to share the story of what I saw the Monday after thanksgiving last year. I was flying AA IND-DFW-ELP. While waiting at DFW for the flig
48 Post contains images SATL382G : The problem at SNN has caused at times some grumblings from the troops. One measure that has been taken to prevent problems there has been to keep the
49 Irishjohn : Clipper002 Your knowledge is without challenge but a small correction!! The constitution of Ireland, a neutral country, does not permit troops from a
50 Clipper002 : Irishjohn, We were well aware of that fact and had already received approval to stow weapons without ammo in the cabin of our planes. This was only a
51 Irishjohn : Fine by me clipper002!!!
52 Clipper002 : Irishjohn, Thanks. I did not mean to offend anyone. Ed
53 Clipper002 : Irishjohn. I failed to ask you what you are doing in Russia? Ed
54 Post contains images ATLhomeCMH : ....Finally two seats were found for these guys and when they came on the plane everyone cheered...several people thanked them. Even more, the captain
55 Clipper002 : ATLhomeCMH, You can go ahead and dump DL, but please stick with FL. My kid needs to keep his job. Ed
56 Wjcandee : TO Clipper002: Ed, I have another question about CRAF, that I guess properly goes here. Today, for example, there's a troop movement from McGuire AFB
57 Macdaddy : I know that bmi A330 and a European 747-2 were used in Afghanistan airlifts, my ex crewed one, and a mate flew back in the upper deck bubble on the 74
58 Wjcandee : MacDaddy: Is your nickname a pun on the old MAC (Military Airlift Command, predecessor of the AMC Air Mobility Command), or just a coincidence? --Bill
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