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UAL, What's Left To Cut?  
User currently offlineHighliner2 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 696 posts, RR: 2
Posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2379 times:

Well,

It appears the pensions are gone. And it also appears UA is still losing money, lots of money. My question is, what's left to cut? Staff it would seem is as minimal as it can be. Routes, airplanes? Any insight would be appreciated.

-jlk


Go Cubs!
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2353 times:

I think UA could cut their wrists and speed up their demise.

AA777jr


User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26810 posts, RR: 75
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2344 times:

UA should cut their management and learn how to run proper airline.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4433 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2333 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I'm still waiting for them to replace the 8 737's in DSM with 30 RJ's like American Eagle did.......... I hope doesn't happen.

User currently offlineDbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2313 times:

Actually, DSM has been seeing 757s, A319s, and A320s lately from UA. I'm not sure what'll happen in the future, but I don't think they'll necessarily be down grading much in DSM.

User currently offlineBaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2028 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2232 times:

N1120a is dead on. The problem is management. I think about a statement I read re a comment made by Gordon Bethune about UA, a la the fact that they (UA management are in deep denial of their situation): The more I think about it, the more I think he is correct. Why else would UA continue to chase only the high fare paying passenger and leave the 95% of everybody else out of the equation.

Further, all UA does is cut. They don't reallocate resources, like any intelligent manager would do. I feel for the employees of United. They are getting a raw deal. Of course, the blame should mostly fall on the old CEO Goodwin, who gave the pilots the highest increases in the history of aviation and then had the market fall out from under them. Tilton isn't much better, he still has the old management in place, albeit in different places. They still don't have a clue about what they are doing. In point of fact, I could run that airline better than Tilton. At least I have a plan and the guts to see it through. It wouldn't be pretty, but it could work, with the right support from the employees.

The banks are not going to permit this to go on much longer. The other carriers, notably American, would kill to get United's Pacific Routes, then it would supplant United with the global route structure that it lacks because of its Pacific presence. Of course, the minute this happens, Star Alliance has major problems, because with no major US player, the alliance could crack overnight.

United will be sold off in pieces and what is left will be liquidated at auction. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they are already having some kind of discussions with other carriers already. AA, CO and DL have all spoken recently of merger discussions with United.

They just need to get it done already. Leaving people to suffer as they are now, with a slow painful death is a crime. The best thing for UA to do now is sell itself off and hope it can save the employees jobs by making that part of the deal. Lets hope it happens soon.



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineScotron11 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1178 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2203 times:

Other carriers throats!

User currently offlineJopavon From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 304 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2197 times:

Well, maybe UA is now thinking employees paying to work there...that's the only solution...no wages. UA is loosing their mind having employees pay all the cuts.


Come fly Mexicana, to Mexico!
User currently offlineOrd From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2088 times:

1. "Why else would UA continue to chase only the high fare paying passenger and leave the 95% of everybody else out of the equation."

I fly United all the time, for both business and pleasure, and always get a good fare. They are certainly not only chasing the high-fare paying passenger (except on JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO runs). And Ted certainly does not chase high-fare paying customers.


2. "They don't reallocate resources..."

This is not true. They have reallocated practically all South American routes from Miami to Chicago and Washington. And they recently announced a reallocation of equipment to expand international flying 14% while reducing domestic capacity.


3. "AA, CO and DL have all spoken recently of merger discussions with United."

This is also not true. AA and DL have not spoken with UA about a merger (unless I've missed something, in which case I'd like to see a link to an article). And Gordon Bethune said he was interested in talking with UA but that UA was did not show any interest back.


United's management seems no better or worse than any other legacy carrier. I don't see American or Delta posting huge profits.


User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2074 times:

When is United set to exit bankruptcy? They have been in there for a LONG time and i was just wondering if there is any new date set for them to leave?


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 693 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2053 times:

Has UAL cut any positions in Oak Grove? Are they top-heavy? I would think they could cut management.

User currently offlineAa717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2038 times:

N1120a is on to something. In 1991 when it looked like Carl Icahn would pull the plug on TWA all the management bailed. I don't mean an orderly departure, either. It was like one day they were there and the next they were gone.

But the company didn't collapse. The people who bought fuel and cups and napkins kept on buying and the people who worked the gates and counters and planes kept on working. At that point, we all realized that a large number of managers wasn't necessary to keep the company going.

Maybe UAL will have a similar epiphany and survive in spite of not being constantly supervised...TC



FL450, M.85
User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2023 times:

There's PLENTY left to cut:

-a/c
-routes
-more staff
-focus cities and smaller hubs
-inflight food
-ff perks
-IFE


...just to name a few.

I'm sure they'll find something.  Smile



"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineMojo89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 123 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1804 times:


Has UAL cut any positions in Oak Grove? Are they top-heavy? I would think they could cut management.

Not sure where Oak Grove is, but they have made cuts at ELK Grove. Yes even management.



When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 47
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1785 times:

Who made history when he made the comment "I can make a pizza so cheap that no one will want to eat it", in refernce to the fact that after you cut so far, you reach dimisnishing returns?

Was it ol Herbie?


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1767 times:

Well, I've learned to accept that no matter what anyone says, or how many facts they use to back it up, people still think UA is going to die in the next few days after the post. So I'm just going to say, you're all wrong! Discuss.

User currently offlineMojo89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 123 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1755 times:

FriendlySkies-
Once again we agree.



When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
User currently offlineJetjeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1433 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1740 times:

Ual is still hireing for positions across the country but they are hireing at much lower wages than their counter parts...its part of a plan to compete with the lcc,s... If they could sell off some of the pacific regions and concentrate on the us and europe they might make it... But they need to start chopping at the top


i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineBahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1835 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1731 times:

I don't think UAL has to cut a lot. Actually, they have been going in other direction since this whole mess started for legacy airlines:
- They serve more food than any other airline in US domestic routes.
- They enhanced their domestic F class service.
- They enhanced their business class service internationaly.
- They have introduced Ted to low yield/vacation oriented routes.
- They have introduced P.S for people who want more than a pair of wings in coast to coast market.
- They have inflight entertaintment for free (except 737s) on mainline fleet.
- They have Ch. 9
- They have Economy Plus (the only airline with it. AA is cutting back on the MRTC by being sneaky about it)
- They have upgraded the FF program that enables you to spend less miles for shorter flights.
- It is still easy to find cheap fares (even cheaper than Southwest or JetBlue) in some markets if you are flexible enough. (Use Sidestep if you are that price sensitive).

Despite all the bad things that happened to the employees, they have put on their smiling faces and best attitudes. Like this F/A that came to me when I was stuck on the last row of 737 due to cancelled fligth and she asked me if I wanted white or red wine. She said she was sorry that I was stuck on the last row and she said if I was hungry she could try to put together something from F class.

(A few bad apples exist in every airline)


I think United it THE BEST airline in the US. Period!

I wouldn't mind paying $30-60 more per round trip for all this service.

UA doesn't need to be another DL, NW, AA.. They are a perfect airline as they are..



Earthbound misfit I
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1729 times:

If they could sell off some of the pacific regions and concentrate on the us and europe they might make it... But they need to start chopping at the top

Selling any of the Pacific routes would kill UA almost immediately...those routes are UA's most profitable. They need those routes, or the other carriers will eat UA alive...


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1718 times:

They have inflight entertaintment for free (except 737s) on mainline fleet.

Just curious...when did UA start charging for IFE in the 737s? I don't see how that's possible or true. Love the rest of your post though, glad to see some positive comments on UA. Of course, we're all disregarded as the "UA Cult" by those who are blind to the fact that UA has actually cut more costs than any other airline in the US since 9/11...they just had a much bigger mess to clean up, thanks to the unions and managment pre-2000.


User currently offlineHighliner2 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 696 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1713 times:

Will axing the pensions save them money, and if so, any idea how much? Was this an intentional cost-cutting measure or did they simply not have enough money to pay it?


Go Cubs!
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4120 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1696 times:

Will axing the pensions save them money, and if so, any idea how much? Was this an intentional cost-cutting measure or did they simply not have enough money to pay it?

Over the course of the pension payouts...roughly $6 billion. They can't pay for it, if they do they will not survive. So they really don't have a choice. Go blame the ESOP, bad idea from the start...most of the employees were either brainwashed by Wolf or lost the majority of the vote. But they're all regretting it now.


User currently offlineBahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1835 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1679 times:

FriendlySkies,
my post came out wrong. I put Except 737s in there because they don't have IFE except audio.




Earthbound misfit I
User currently offlineRhsnyc From United States of America, joined May 2004, 95 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1576 times:

WOW! I'm a UA Flight Attendant and want to say " T H A N K Y O U!!!" for the kind words regarding United and good service you've received!! Years ago I worked in Customer Service for American, became a Flight Attendant for Pan Am and eventually transferred over to UA. I've literally seen UA transform and improve over the years in many areas of service and have become very happy working for them. Of all airlines to "jump to" UA fit Pan Am's personality type the best! We seem to have adjusted better there than those who went elsewhere. I always try to keep the passengers happy and laughing knowing that I'm approachable. What we're going through is very upsetting but that's not the flying public's fault so many of us know to be friendly and cheerful. I've had the BEST conversations with you all in the galley and even shed a tear getting to know you for the brief time we've shared on the flight. THANKS AGAIN to those of you who support United (me)!!

25 Avek00 : "I don't think UAL has to cut a lot. Actually, they have been going in other direction since this whole mess started for legacy airlines: - They serve
26 Jettatco : I agree UA won't go away, but the bidding war for Gordon between US and UA will be interesting. If Gordon goes to UA plan on him doing the same as he
27 Gigneil : I don't think there will be any bidding war between UA and US. All signs say that UA is not interested. US I'm sure is thoroughly interested. N
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