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AC, The Major Airline With Minimal IFE's?  
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5403 times:

If my information is accurate, AC only has two of its A340-500 with IFE's. I think the rest is the classic sit back and watch the big screen in the front format.

Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing Air Canada or anything. It's just that when thinking about AC, they play some extremely old movies occasionally. I heard from my father, 2002 June when he took the flight from KIX-YVR, they played Mission Impossible. I don't mean two, but Mission Impossible One.

If NW has the most classics in its fleet, can AC be argued that for IFE? Major airlines serving a market like NRT for instance that I can think of have IFE's. AA, CO, JL, NH, NW. The only ones that don't really come to mind is UA and AC. Well I am not 100% positive about UA but is this because they both filed for bankruptcy and they have no money to upgrade their classes? Its funny, AC should have done so during the merger.

I heard that they are planning to introduce it, but to me, it seems like a really late move and when they install all aircraft with it, it will be out-dated again.

It's quite spectacular that they can keep their pax. JL right now with the new MAGIC system introduced to YVR, is AC ok in getting the pax in this NON-Monopoly route? Also CX, SQ, maybe KE? All these new aircrafts are introducing.

Maybe getting NH temporarily into YVR might be a smart idea so they can upgrade cabins on AC aircraft.

Any comments or information will be greatly appreciated.

ktachiya


Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAad665 From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5370 times:

Hi,

In the same league, LH doesn't have PTV on any aircraft in Y.

For AC movie, I used the commute YUL-FRA at that time (2002). You are right, I felt at that time that they did a movie cost cutting exercice in Y. They were all terrible and old. I good book did the job better. On other side, when you fight for your survive, movies are a easy cost cutting.

Ac is a fine airline, will be better over time.

Regards,

aad665


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5359 times:

RG also has flights to NRT (GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT) with the MD11, and no IFE. That's quite something as the entire flight duration is 27h. Is this the longest flight without IFE??? I only wish TAM could be operating this route instead...

Rgs,
Hardi


User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5348 times:

Aad665

I thought the new A340-600 does don't they?

I see, RG also.

Well JL's NRT-YVR-MEX was also a long flight with no IFE although GIG-GRU-LAX-NRT is longer. They have the new one to replace it now though.

So what will AC do now? Get IFE on everyseat to stay competitive plus get the wireless internet connection?



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5334 times:

No i think the longest scheduled single flight without PTVs (not without IFE - important to make the distinction) is ANZ - LHR-LAX-AKL. Thats gotta be 24 hrs+. Ive heard they are a fabulous airline to fly with though.


What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4910 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5325 times:

Of course AC has IFE. Just the majority of the aircraft to not have PTVs in economy.

The A340s, A330s, retired 747s, and international B767s all have PTVs in Business Class. Some B767s however, namely the newly leased ones, have not yet been equipped with PTVs in Business Class.

One of the recent announcements on exit from CCAA last month was the installation of PTVs in economy. Starting with widebody international economy, (and for the record, some aircraft have been so equipped), and working down to the domestic fleet. The EMB190s will be delivered with PTVs in both J and Y.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

Starting with widebody international economy, (and for the record, some aircraft have been so equipped), and working down to the domestic fleet

Other way around actually. The first aircraft type to be equipped with AC's new IFE system will be the new CRJ-700s. The widebodies aren't slated to be completed for over 2 years.


User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4910 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5310 times:

I just saw one yesterday in YYZ, didn't catch the fin number, but it was a B767-300 on its way to YVR then somewhere in Asia. Cool seats in Y, I am assuming it was the first one equipped.


Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineAccargo From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 610 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5301 times:

Don't get me wrong, I am not bashing Air Canada or anything

A fair number of your posts seems to be complaining about things AC, whether it's the type of acft you think they should use on one of the pacific routes, or a destination you think they should serve with more frequency than they do or now the fact that at present they don't have personnel IFE's in economy. Most of the time, it seems that you only want to look at one part of the whole and you criticize them for not making the decision you want them to make.

I heard that they are planning to introduce it, but to me, it seems like a really late move and when they install all aircraft with it, it will be out-dated again.

A late move? Perhaps you missed it but AC was in CCAA for the past 18 months and didn't have the cash to make any kind of cabin improvements. The system that they will be installing will be the latest generation of IFE. If it is outdated by the time it's installed in all the acft then most majors will also have out-dated systems in their acft.

You really should try to look at the whole picture rather than little bits and pieces. AC flies to many other destinations apart from Asia. It must put the acft it has on the routes that provide the most profit for the airline, not on the routes that some people want to see them on. There is not a limitless supply of acft to go around. Most airlines will change the size of acft on a route to adjust for seasonal pax demand. You may think that there is demand on a route but there could be a greater demand on another route that will provide AC with a bigger profit.


User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3238 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5270 times:

I flew AC BOS-YYZ-YVR two weeks ago (trip report coming up soon!). The two
transcons had pretty recent movies: Spiderman 2 and The Manchurian Candidate.

Edit: I should have also said that during the two shorter flights, AC did show
news and in fact they did give out headsets. I don't know many other airlines
that give out free headsets for such short flights.

I've been flying LH and AC a fair amount recently and the lack of PTVs doesn't
really bother me. I hardly watch the movies anyway. A good book is all I need.
And my laptop of course!

And as this picture shows


View Large View Medium

Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt



LH A340-600s do not have PTVs.

Tony


[Edited 2004-11-10 15:05:57]


Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1433 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5215 times:

Accargo, excellent response! Couldn't have written it better myself  Smile
It is also worth noting to Ktachiya and others that an airline doesn't make decisions on what the whims and wishes of what teenagers on a.net think (or don't think.)

Cheers,
Kaz



t.dot photography
User currently offlineCaptainGomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5126 times:

The latest and greatest IFE is just one component of the total experience in a flight. Sure, it's nice to have, but it's not a deal breaker for me. I'll take the extra legroom that Air Canada offers compared to almost all competitors, as that for me is more important on a very long flight than the choice of a few more movies on a little screen in front of me.

Give me 34" of legroom and no PTV than 31" and a PTV on a long flight.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineRT514 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5110 times:

It's quite spectacular that they can keep their pax.

Really? You must not be all that well traveled, then. AC is a fine airline with several attributes that make it a competitive product, more so than many other North American carriers.


Give me 34" of legroom and no PTV than 31" and a PTV on a long flight.

Ditto for me too, Captain.


User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4910 posts, RR: 43
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5103 times:

I have to agree too.

What has happened this day and age where mindless people demand to be entertained. Shoot, buy a book, learn something, or indulge in the greatest entertainment there is, conversation with the unknown person beside you!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineEugdog From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5003 times:

But don't BA and AA have 34 inches and ptv. I

took an Airbus A330 AC flight a few years ago. The seats clearly had space for a PTV but AC chose not order it. This was long before bankrupcy had set in. I have always though Air Canada was over rated. They call them selves proud Canadians but they have exploited monopolies to charge high prices (especially on domestic routes such as Edmonton Calgary - so much for being a service to Canadians) and driven out competitors when necessary with predatory pricing. The refusal of Air Canada to have PTV when every US airline accept NW have had it for years on its Transaltantic run is just typical of AC true attitude to passengers.

I was disappointed not see AC go under. But I do not think it will survive very long against the LCC. Canada is ideal for LCC because there are plenty of slots available at most Airports in Canada.

I also find AC very expensive - why does it cost so much to on AC to Toronto then on AA to New York (same distance) and with PTV


User currently offlineAC330 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4935 times:

EugDog

"The refusal of Air Canada to have PTV when every US airline accept NW have had it for years on its Transaltantic run is just typical of AC true attitude to passengers."

That comment is just typical of those who complain about Air Canada. Yes, AC didn't install PTV's because they have attitude towards passengers....come on, give me a break. I am an Elite flyer with Air Canada and I think they are a fantastic airline with or without a PTV. I am glad they have overcome past hardships and look forward to seeing what the future holds for this excellent carrier.

AC330


User currently offlineAccargo From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 610 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4924 times:

Eugdog, how many times have you flown AC?

User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4900 times:

Oh great........

Some people just think "make assumptions" and turn that into a "war like" situation as quoted in my other threads. I am just saying that that is becoming more of the standard to have the PTV in every seat now. Look at many of the Asian carriers. I even quoted "I wasn't bashing." But then I get "It seems like bashing, you are bashing" (so I am going to assume that I am bashing) Great..... Some people don't know how to keep the thread working. Great job, I am so proud of you



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1792 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4892 times:

Yes yes I will read a book

Revival of the Renaissance. The Gutenberg press, but where are some standards going? Installing PTV is the standard now a days for many many carriers. Look at the NW 330. PTV is there for an option. And yes, you might get extra leg room without the PTV but hey, I am a short Japanese guy. Some say extra leg room is good, some don't agree.

But transforming people's original threads doesn't seem like a good mature action of 'someone who isn'T a teenager'

Or is that?



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineNorthStarDc4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2990 posts, RR: 37
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4900 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

took an Airbus A330 AC flight a few years ago. The seats clearly had space for a PTV but AC chose not order it. This was long before bankrupcy had set in. I have always though Air Canada was over rated. They call them selves proud Canadians but they have exploited monopolies to charge high prices (especially on domestic routes such as Edmonton Calgary - so much for being a service to Canadians) and driven out competitors when necessary with predatory pricing. The refusal of Air Canada to have PTV when every US airline accept NW have had it for years on its Transaltantic run is just typical of AC true attitude to passengers

ok, how many facts are wrong here:

1> Edmonton - Calgary HAS NEVER been an AC monopoly. It actually has some of the LOWEST fares in Canada and most compitition.

2> AC fares YYZ-LHR are mostly lower than British Airways'. comparing YYZ-LHR to LHR-NYC is flawed due to the differences in demand and market.

3> Driven out competitors... dont tell CanJet, WestJet, JetsGo, etc that... I know of no cases where Air Canada proper has been anti-competitive in well over 10 years... (AC Jazz is a different matter though...). Has Air Canada been COMPETITIVE, well of course they have!

4> About you PTV and Service speil, NOT ONE Canadian airline has installed PTVs in economy until VERY recently. Canadian never had them, Westjet is only now installing directTV, Jetsgo dont have them, CanJet dont have them, none of the charters have them...

Eugdog, in future try to use facts if you are going to make arguments. Ive never had service that was anything but above par on Air Canada. If you dont like AC, no one is making you fly them. And yes, the A330s and A340s were set up for PTVs from delivery, however the original PTV system had so many problems AC decided not to buy it.



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineAccargo From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 610 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4858 times:

Oh great........
I even quoted "I wasn't bashing." But then I get "It seems like bashing, you are bashing" (so I am going to assume that I am bashing) Great..... Some people don't know how to keep the thread working. Great job, I am so proud of you


I've read a fair number of your threads, and most criticize AC in some way because they are not doing things the way you want them to.. To me that is bashing. If you want the thread to "work" try doing some research before you post.

I am just saying that that is becoming more of the standard to have the PTV in every seat now.

Whose standard? Yours? Once again you take a small piece of the whole picture and make blanket statements. AC is coming out with IFE, you don't know which system it is, yet you say it is out of date. You say they should have done it during the merger. Do you really know what systems were available then and how reliable they were? Where was the money to come from for this massive refit? The fact is AC is NOW in a position to install IFE's and is doing so.

If you are going to post stuff like this, you should be prepared to defend your position when you get called on it. .


User currently offlineORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4851 times:

"conversation with the unknown person beside you!"

N000000000000000000000!

There is nothing worse than some idiot (or any person for that matter) wanting to chat you up on a long flight! I want some minor privacy in an environment that makes it almost impossible (in stearage that is). I have put on my iPod headphones simply to shut the person up when I wasn't even listening to anything.

As for LH I would rather fly them with no PTV than almost any North American airline. Besides with the new flynet internet service I can keep myself entertained by giving you all my rather opinionated posts!



User currently offlineLymanm From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4818 times:

"I was disappointed not see AC go under. But I do not think it will survive very long against the LCC. Canada is ideal for LCC because there are plenty of slots available at most Airports in Canada."

Perhaps you could clarify how the heck "plenty of slots" makes Canada a breeding ground for LCCs? Does demand, size of markets, vast distances between markets suddenly become irrelevent when slots are brought into the equation?



buhh bye
User currently offlineMissedApproach From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 713 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4802 times:

I wouldn't be surprised if AC was the largest airline with the least number of IFE equipped planes. However, the domestic market is a very different animal than the international one. There are many regional airports AC serves where the competition is non-existent, or seasonal. Also, most people would rather have a cheaper ticket than half a movie on a short flight. They usually provide newspapers on morning flights- does that count as IFE?  Laugh out loud
As for the international flights, they did have other thing on their plate the last little while, like restructuring.
So while AC might have a low IFE density in their fleet, I think they've got some decent excuses...at least for now.



Can you hear me now?
User currently offlineBoeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 4803 times:

IFE is expensive. I commend AC and NW for strategically and slowly rolling out IFE in the right aircraft for the right markets (high yield) and saving money by not kow-towing to the latest trends.

To me the greatest IFE is a book.






Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
25 Ktachiya : OK Accargo look at my home country Japan then. Japan Air has Magic, NH has IFE's installed in their long haul flights, Japan Air System used to have t
26 EnviroTO : AC has already said that it will put PTV in every seat, including their CRJ-700s and ERJs. PTVs haven't been around that long and when you consider th
27 Sebring : And since YVR has so many flights to Japan anyways, what would happen if a "PICKY" Japanese customer likes me chooses JL? Or what if NH starts flying?
28 Airbus Lover : Ktachiya's window to the aviation world seems to focus mainly around: 1. YVR this and YVR that 2. JAL services and equipment into YVR (and the next le
29 SafeFlyer : As much as you like to say that a passenger is a passenger, I must disagree with your statement, and agree with others that your last posts about AC w
30 Ktachiya : SafeFlyer AC did in fact have a 744 flying YYZ-YVR once when the 4 ex-Canadian 744's were there. And other than that they fly heavies frequently on th
31 SafeFlyer : Yes, AC did indeed fly a 744 full-pax when they had them. Now they don't has most of domestic flights have been downsized to maximize the effiency. YE
32 N1120a : I see we are still confusing PTVs with IFE. AC has IFE in all classes on all mainline planes (I think), what they don't have are PTVs. If you want to
33 SNATH : Eugdog, I was disappointed not see AC go under. I hope you're still sulking... I also find AC very expensive - why does it cost so much to on AC to To
34 ACB777 : When is the first plane in the existing AC fleet scheduled to receive PTVs in Y? Which aircraft will it be?
35 LongHauler : The only aircraft of Air Canada that do not have IFE are the CL-65s and all Jazz aircraft. ALL other aircraft in AC's fleet has IFE. You even watch ne
36 Post contains images SafeFlyer : SNATH: I'm sorry, I should have made myself more clear on the A340/744D thing. I meant YYZ-YVR could not support the equivalent of Japan's domestic 74
37 Post contains images SNATH : SafeFlyer, No reason for apologies! But you're right. When I was looking at the YYZ-YVR flights a lot of them were A320s (in fact this is what I flew
38 Spyderz : While I do like PTV's they aren't a requirement. In fact I have only ever flown 3 flights with PTV's. As for Air Canada, within 2 years time, Air Cana
39 FLYACYYZ : KTACHIYA -- hailing from Japan, you have an ongoing interest and intrigue regarding almost every aspect of AC's operations, from food to equipment to
40 Ktachiya : FLYACYYZ Your post was convincing, yes. Its sayonara not siyonara. The CRJ's, I never heard that AC had them. But the flaw that I heard is that for a
41 Ua777222 : I'm surprised no one has mentioned UA (Maybe they have I've just spent 10 minutes thumbing threw the posts). SFO-HKG?!?!?! That flight is a major pain
42 Yukimizake : Let's say you make 60 000$ a year but you get fired and your revenue drops to 35 000$. Will you delay the house's renovation plans? This is an interes
43 Ktachiya : Let's say your FATHER makes 60 000$ a year but he gets fired and your FATHER'S revenue drops to 35 000$. Will your FATHER delay ordering satellite TV
44 Accargo : The CRJ's, I never heard that AC had them. But the flaw that I heard is that for a small aircraft, they use a lot of runway length Once again you are
45 Luv2fly : "We are all victims of our own greed. Face it, you want more you pay more, you don't pay more you get less. Then someone will say "Well Jetblue has TV
46 Ua777222 : As I heard they were offered a deal that they couldn't refuse at the time of their start up. Now AT THE TIME they supposedly didn't have to pay as muc
47 Lymanm : "Thanks again, great topic!" -UA777222 Wow, this totally makes my day! Users Ktachiya and UA777222 offereing their "expertise" on the same thread! Now
48 Ua777222 : How have you "seen it all"? Is it just b/c two younger guys are talking in a forum? I just find this topic to be a very long and interesting one. I'm
49 DavidYYC : Its seems that there is lots of support for AC on this thread. I never really care much about PTV's on long haul flights as there is always something
50 Post contains images Accargo : I think that AC really cut costs in not upgrading and repairing the existing video screens, they are all VERY outdated and in disrepair. By any chance
51 Lymanm : "Now what I say might be wrong but that's the even better part b/c then I get corrected and walk away with knowing even more than first expected and r
52 DavidYYC : Actually, Accargo, I am, and was fully aware of AC financial problems, and have followed their financial matters closely. Many of the problems I am re
53 Accargo : Actually, Accargo, I am, and was fully aware of AC financial problems, and have followed their financial matters closely. Many of the problems I am re
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