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UAL Looks To Ax Air Wisconsin  
User currently offlineUAXDXer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 765 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8561 times:

United Takes Additional Steps to Move Business Plan Forward

Company works to implement non-labor cost reductions by seeking competitive bids for a portion of its current United Express capacity

For Immediate Release
Chicago, November 10, 2004 -- United Airlines today announced that it has extended a request for proposal (RFP) to a number of regional airlines to provide up to 70 regional jets to the United Express network. These jets will be used to cover capacity currently operated by Air Wisconsin, one of United’s six United Express partners. The RFP is not expected to increase the overall size of the fleet at United Express. Rather, United expects that under the terms of the bids it receives, the cost of the capacity currently operated by Air Wisconsin will likely be reduced. Additionally, the RFP will provide United with an opportunity to fine-tune the mix of smaller and larger regional jet aircraft in the United Express fleet.
“As we continue with our cost-control efforts, we must look at every area of the company and within every contract we have,” said Sean Donohue, vice president-United Express and Ted. “Air Wisconsin is a long standing, valuable partner for United Airlines that performs well for us today, and we look forward to productive discussions with Air Wisconsin and other potential bidders. We must ensure we are paying market rates for our United Express service. By requesting competitive bids from a number of regional airlines, we are confident we will secure proper market rates for our United Express contracts while providing our customers with safe, reliable service throughout our United Express network.”

United submitted the RFP to 10 regional airline companies including all of its existing partners. Initial proposals are due back to United by Dec. 10. Companies that received an RFP include: Air Wisconsin, Trans States, Chautauqua, Mesa, SkyWest, Independence Air, Horizon, Pinnacle, Mesaba and Express Jet.
“Every aspect of our business has got to be competitive. We will meet the goal of lowering our costs by an additional $2 billion, about one-third of which we expect to come from non-labor costs,” said Peter D. McDonald, executive vice president and chief operating officer.
United Airlines (OTCBB: UALAQ.OB) is the world’s second largest airline, operating more than 3,500 flights a day on United, United Express and Ted to more than 200 U.S. domestic and international destinations from its hubs in Los Angeles, San Francisco, Denver, Chicago and Washington, D.C. With key global air rights in the Asia-Pacific region and Europe, United is the largest international carrier based in the United States (measured by revenue passenger miles***). United is also a founding member of Star Alliance, which provides connections for our customers to more than 700 destinations in more than 130 countries worldwide. United’s nearly 62,000 employees reside in every state in the United States and in many countries around the world. News releases and other information about United can be found at the company’s Web site at united.com.

*** Revenue passenger miles for 12-months ending June 2004 as reported to the U.S. Department of Transportation.


[Edited 2004-11-11 00:11:34]


It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
80 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8482 times:

AWAC isn't part of United anymore.

N


User currently offlineUAXDXer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8438 times:

What I find amazing is that according to the press release, is that, no other than Indapendance Air is one of the companies to receive an RFP.


It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4382 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8372 times:

It's entirely logical for Indy Air to be included in the bidding - they're the 2nd largest carrier @ IAD in terms of daily departures.


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3927 posts, RR: 27
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8370 times:

They're doing again, exactly what ACA balked at to spawn FlyI. AWAC is still eligable for their flying, they're now just being nickel and dimed by UAL for the lowest bidder. If a bid comes in under AWAC, UAL can give them the boot. So now, AWAC will go to their employees for concessions, to lower their costs, so they can compete with the bottom feeding airlines that whore themselves for growth. UAL is just lowering their operating costs and unfortunately the cheapest deal is going to get selected. It's too bad that cheap does not = quality.

One comment about Mesaba's involvment in this RFP. Only Big Sky could possibly bid on this flying as Mesaba Airlines is prohibited to do any flying outside NWA. Interestingly, if Big Sky should get selected, pilots on the Mesaba seniority list will do the flying as this will be in a/c over 19 seats.


AZJ


User currently offlineErj145lr From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8338 times:

i'm pretty sure they are #1 at IAD. If not who is? but im almost positive they are #1 THERE.

User currently offlineMm320cap From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 227 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8337 times:

One of the biggest problems I have with our contracts with UAX carriers right now is that we are paying for their fuel. Skywest Airlines was #1 in on-time arrivals last year. Why? Because they can fly as fast as they want without worrying about the costs associated. I'm not blaming them, that is the deal they signed with United. Good for them, bad for us. But it is time to get everyone on the same page. I just spent a day off in a required class on fuel savings. There was tons of good information there. I only hope that our UAX partners implement a similar strategy. Last quarter we lost over $80 million on our UAX partners. We just can't continue to operate like that.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8324 times:

i'm pretty sure they are #1 at IAD. If not who is? but im almost positive they are #1 THERE.

United is in almost all ways.

N


User currently offlineErj145lr From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8308 times:

yea but Avek00 said they were 2nd

User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2448 posts, RR: 30
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8276 times:

Interesting not only that they sent one to Independence, but to Horizon, ExpressJet and Chautauqua. Horizon needs more planes and already feeds United's largest competitor in Denver. ExpressJet (if I remember a post on here right) can't operate jets for anyone unless they are Continental Express flights. United has an existing contract with Republic, which is part of Chautauqua right?

Finally.. I would love to have seen the face on the person at FlyI who rec'd United's RFP..... that would have been priceless.



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8260 times:

ExpressJet (if I remember a post on here right) can't operate jets for anyone unless they are Continental Express flights.

I'm pretty sure ExpressJet has been soliciting other business.

N


User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8225 times:

There's only one airline out of the 9 (not including Air Wisconsin) that would have 70 RJs ready to go on day 1 of the contract..........

User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8220 times:

Well, I for one am totally shocked. UA was just telling us how great we were doing as far as performance goes....what really sucks is that if UA wants us to be part of the UAX family then why not just come back to us and say that we needed to cut costs.....why isn't there open dialogue. I'm trying as an ZW employee to be rather calm and rational about this but I can't believe that they would allow Indy Air to get back into the UAX family.....give me a break!


Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineUAL Bagsmasher From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 2146 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8202 times:

Wow. Less than a year ago, UA was talking about the piss poor service ACA was providing. Now they are knocking on Indy Air's door. I guess they'll never learn. Like they say, "Misery loves company."

User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8185 times:

This opens up more interesting theories.....

Let's say UA replaces Air Wisconsin with FlyI.. what happens to Air Wisconsin then?

It's no secret that SkyWest is sitting on a ton of cash and looking at the possibilities of acquiring another carrier.

Also, Mesa went for ACA.. might they go for Air Wisconsin? America West might want the BAe-146...


User currently offlineWeAreUnited From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 423 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8174 times:

Erj145lr:
Avek00 said that Indy Air is number 2 at Dulles, not United.


I hope whatever happens with this new proposal, that United dumps Mesa before they exit BK. They are a huge embarrassment for United- a good way to alienate their loyal customers.


User currently offlineErj145lr From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8150 times:

is BK shuttle america?

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9635 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8132 times:

I am sure the necessary regional jets could be acquired. UA replaced the ACA contract with Mesa and increased service from others. It would be interesting if either Indy Air, or their airplanes in the forms of other operators came back to UAX. Indy Air is in financial trouble and investors might say that they must go back to UA (even if it is with a pitiful contract) otherwise they will go to bankruptcy. The investors will want to save the carrier, and UA could do that. If Indy Air has to liquidate or get our of their CRJ contracts to save costs, then there are all the planes needed. I am sure another carrier could find the crews necessary to fly them as well. There are pilots out there desperate for a solid job even if it is for a pittance. Of course Indy air could come back and be successful, but things are looking bleak with their latest announcement.

It is really sad how UA is isolating itself from its regional partners, but that is business in a tight economy. Hopefully UA will come through and all of its regional carriers and their employees will be able to survive. I feel sorry for all of the Air Wisconsin employees who already work at significantly lower wages then their mainline counterparts. In my opinion it takes the pilot expertise to fly a CRJ from IAD to JFK 4 times a day as it does to go from IAD to LHR but economics of wages does not match that. It is a shame that they are paid poorly and soon will be working for even less. Hard work is not rewarded well for the most part in the airline industry be it pilots, FAs, CSAs ... few come out far ahead, and the others work hard just to be exploited again because of economics.

[Edited 2004-11-11 01:12:12]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3927 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8095 times:

IMO this is all public posturing to put pressure on Air Willy to reduce their costs. UAL is obviously pleased with the service Air Willy provides. All UAL is saying is that they want it done cheaper. By publiclly announcing that they're looking for other bidders on this flying #1, scares the employees as evidenced by ATWZW170's post. #2, starts the bidding war for the work Air Will yis doing so that Air Willy can put downward pressure on their employees. Al UAL has to do is say "cut your costs or else you're done" to which Air Willy will tell their employees "take concessions or we'll be through and you'll all be out of jobs." So the Air Willy employees probably only the pilots though, will have to suck it up and take concessions if they want jobs. It's a dirty game, but UAL has to take care of themselves first. It's always been that way and will continue to be that way. Such are the perils of being merely contractors in this industry.


AZJ

[Edited 2004-11-11 01:12:10]

User currently offlineUAXDXer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8077 times:

IMO this is all public posturing to put pressure on Air Willy to reduce their costs. UAL is obviously pleased with the service Air Willy provides. All UAL is saying is that they want it done cheaper. By publiclly announcing that they're looking for other bidders on this flying #1, scares the employees as evidenced by ATWZW170's post. #2, starts the bidding war for the work Air Will yis doing so that Air Willy can put downward pressure on their employees. Al UAL has to do is say "cut your costs and you're done" to which Air Willy will tell their employees "take concessions or we'll be through and you'll all be out of jobs." So the Air Willy employees probably only the pilots though, will have to suck it up and take concessions if they want jobs. It's a dirty game, but UAL has to take care of themselves first. It's always been that way and will continue to be that way. Such are the perils of being merely contractors in this industry.

You're absolutly right, however, AWAC went through everything you mentioned above a little more than one year ago to reduce their costs and get a new contract. AWAC got concessions from all of their labor groups and managment, and got a new deal with UAL which was approved the bankruptsy court. This is why all of this is such a huge surprise to me.



It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
User currently offlineWeAreUnited From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 423 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8075 times:

is BK shuttle america?

BK: Bankruptcy


User currently offlineGroundstop From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 611 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8069 times:

"UA replaced the ACA contract with Mesa"

This is only partially true. United replaced ACA with a mix of regional carries including Shuttle America, Chautauqua, SkyWest, etc. Air Wisconsin picked up the majority of the old ACA routes out of IAD. They did this at the expense of their DEN CRJ Pilot/FA base.

As far as their employees, I couldn't agree with you more. They are a great group of people. I had the pleasure of working with them during the JetConnect operation. Many of those crews left DEN for ATL to support that operation. Shortly after that operation ended, the DEN base was closed and all CRJ flying was sent to ORD and IAD leaving the 146's based at ATW and DEN.

JP


User currently offlineEyesinthesky From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8069 times:

You all gotta be joking. Ever since UA and ACA split, IAD has been a joke. Have any of you heard about the "G" terminal at IAD. They were gonna call it the "F" terminal but rethought that idea. But if you fly into that terminal, it might as well be called the "F" cause you are ***** if you have a connection to make. Lets say your route is BUF-IAD-CPH. OK, you arrive at the "G" terminal from BUF, you then take a bus to "C", you then walk about a 1/4 mile to take a Mobile Lounge to "B" and then walk about 1/4 mile to the gate. That will take you approx, 20-45 minutes. And good luck getting your bags!!
And if you miss your connection, you better hope you get one of the nice UA employees rather that the AW ones.
Sometimes the ground crews at the "G" terminal do not know which plane is coming in from where.

ACA gates were right next to the shuttles that transported you to the United terminals. For once, will upper management start thinking about what is best for the passengers!! Atleast ACA knew the Star Alliance members at the A/P they operated out of.


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3927 posts, RR: 27
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8032 times:

UALDXer - just because they gave once, oesn't mean they can't be asked to give again! Especially if it means losing all their flying. Right now, AWAC is caught between a rock and a hard place. They don't dare pull an ACA and go it alone... since ACA proved it 'aint easy. What are the alternatives?


AZJ


User currently offlineUAXDXer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 765 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8018 times:

AZ, They can be asked again even if the cuts they took where put in to a contract that was approved by UAL's bankruptsy court? ....... obviously they can be, but it must come as a huge surprise to everyone at ZW, like it did to myself.

[Edited 2004-11-11 01:19:37]

[Edited 2004-11-11 01:20:05]


It takes a bug to hit a windsheild but it takes guts to stick
25 Avek00 : The Debtors are permitted to reject contracts - UAL is wisely taking advantage of the oversaturated regional airline market to get the flying done for
26 Azjubilee : UAL is still in bankruptcy... I would think that there are clauses for UAL to renegotiate their terms of their service agreement with the express carr
27 ATWZW170 : Do you think that G is Air Wisconsins fault?? Give me a break, pal. UA did that to us...we jumped through hoops to try to make the express operation w
28 Eyesinthesky : I know the "G" gates are not AWs fault. It was poor planning on the part of UA.
29 FriendlySkies : I just lost the little bit of respect I had for UA's inept management. To even say you are considering getting rid of AWAC is absurd, they are by far
30 Azjubilee : ATW - you have a lot to learn. UA owes NOTHING to the AWAC employees. AWAC is strictly a contract carrier that provides contract work to UAL. All UAL
31 ATWZW170 : AZ, I understand that it is just business but you have to understand that UA came to US asking US to do this for them....they asked US to fill in the
32 Srbmod : Looks like Air Wisky's getting the short end yet again. First AirTran drops AirTran JetConnect, now there's the possibility UA could drop them as some
33 UAL Bagsmasher : One fact comes to mind here. A great many people working at ZW, especially mechanics, are Ex-UAL. They got F***** by UA once already. Judging from wha
34 Azjubilee : ATW - they are GOING to you to discuss the matter... you get to rebid for your work. And again.. NO they do NOT owe you anything. You are just contrac
35 EA CO AS : Y'know, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a thinly-veiled attempt at UA making overtures for an IndyAir/UA reconciliation of sorts. Think about it -
36 Jetboyflyhi : I don't know why people are freaking out,this is a cut throat industry. We in the regional world should know this. Yes it is unfortunate but we are lo
37 Gigneil : Ever since UA and ACA split, IAD has been a joke. You're kidding, right? ACA provided the worst performance in the history of industry to United at Du
38 Nearord : Today Air Wisconsin, tomorrow Skywest, then next highest will go next, it will go on and on and on and on and on. I'm sorry to the employees who will
39 Carpethead : I have flown on five or six segments with ACA and had no beef with them. Well, I guess I just happened to received the good part of a small sampling.
40 Kohflot : nearord: You say that, but I'm with EA CO AS.. my own personal opinion is that UAL has ACA/FlyI in mind......
41 PITrules : How many times is United going to bend over AWAC? They bought them in the eighties for ORD slots, then didn't integrate or hire AWAC employees into Un
42 Jetboyflyhi : Well said PITrules! I agree 100%
43 Mm320cap : PITrules, Please look at who was #1 on-time in the industry last year. Skywest, a UAX feeder. I'm not sure what bad stats you are talking about. As fo
44 PITrules : Mm320cap The DOT stats I was talking about actually were our own as a United Express carrier. Yes, there was plenty of blame to go around for everyone
45 Post contains images Mm320cap : PITrules, I would certainly agree that United has a long way to go in learning how to support their Express operation. UAX in the F concourse in ORD i
46 Nearord : Thank you Mm320cap. We wish you guys the best of luck as well. We all know it isn't the employees. It's nice to see that someone from the "other side"
47 Tiger119 : "United has an existing contract with Republic, which is part of Chautauqua right?" - Republic is the parent corporation of Chautauqua. "I just lost t
48 Mm320cap : Nearord, I've read many of your posts over the months that I've been on this forum, and I really like your respectful tenacity when you defend Indy Ai
49 Jetboyflyhi : No I think all UAX carriers are equal we are all in the same boat..EXPRESS and if you don't like it ..LEAVE.. the last thing UNITED needs is negative
50 Sdkualeb : They need to get ride of them all. None of then server UAL paxs well they all suck, thank god they got ride of ACA. It would be even worse
51 Xpfg : Sdkualeb, What are you talking about. Skywest is a very good company and gets their job done in a very good manner! Not only this, but their cities se
52 Groundstop : "They need to get ride of them all. None of then server UAL paxs well they all suck, thank god they got ride of ACA. It would be even worse" I thought
53 Saab2000 : Mm320cap, Thanks for your kind words about AWAC. I am one of the new employees there. I have been there a bit more than 6 months. I was one of the luc
54 Post contains images UnitedTristar : Skywest is by far the #1 uax carrier out there. I fly on them every month. For those of you who think that OO dosen't experience the same ATC problems
55 Access-Air : You know, back in 1985 When the then CEO of Air Wisconsin, Preston Wilbourne gave into the code share craze of Commuter regionals with Major Airlines
56 ATWZW170 : I for one appreciate all the kind words for AWAC. In the past year AWAC has turned ORD around, no more time in the box, jetbridges actually being read
57 Spoke2Spoke : Is it this kind of treatment UAL has arguably given to their customers and vendors over the years that has landed them in a situation like this, where
58 Jfklganyc : I am glad that all you Indy Air bashers got to see this!!! They had no choice! They would have been in this same situation. United is an evil, evil co
59 Uadc8contrail : 1 question for any uax/zw people in here....does ual still own the first few(unsure of how many)crjs that zw operated???
60 Mm320cap : Saab2000, Hang in there!! I know how you feel... done the furlough thing in the past, and that is simply no fun. As to what our concessions have been
61 SegmentKing : I just want to know how quickly United wants to dump the BAe 146s and how they are going to replace them with a similiar-sized jet. I think that Unite
62 ATWZW170 : Miles, you have just been added to my respect list. Awesome post.
63 PITrules : UnitedTristar This is way off the topic, but there is simply no comparison between the ATC delays in PDX and DEN with those at ORD and IAD. If this re
64 Mm320cap : PITrules, You are RIGHT on. I have always felt that the CRJ has been extremely mis-utilized since its introduction. A FANTASTIC turboprop replacement
65 Post contains images Saab2000 : Mm320cap, I recognise that UAL pilots have made huge concessions. I completely agree with you that we as pilots need to set a minimum compensation and
66 Mojo89 : Unfortunately things are tough all over, but I can't help but honestly feel that things will work out fine in the end. This isn't the first challenge
67 Flyibaby : Honestly, I hold no grudge towards UAL. They made ACA/FLYI into what it is today. Rather than start taking bids however to replace a UAX carrier and s
68 N766UA : I'm pretty sure ExpressJet has been soliciting other business BTA is still stuck flying only with CO... not that it's a bad thing. I think they get cu
69 Blueairbureau : Air Wisconsin was my first airline. I was there when they bought Mountain Air Express and brought the Do-328 on line. My first impression of Air Whisk
70 ATWZW170 : UA has always treated the express carriers like crap. And yes, many of their employees feel that because we are express we are lower than life. What I
71 Planespotting : Access Air I remember those planes from MVA, i remember seeing the Shorts planes at MLI when i was a little kid. Back then i think we took an Ozark DC
72 ATWZW170 : It was probably the Dash 7 or the F27. Both have flown with AWAC all over IL. And I don't think we are going anywhere...we have been and will continue
73 JEFFLAS : I think AIR WISCONSIN should just AX UAL FIRST!
74 FriendlySkies : JEFFLAS: UA is ZW's only "customer." Therefore, they would be pulling an ACA all over again, and looking at ACA these days, I think ZW is smart enough
75 ATWZW170 : AWAC should not just leave UA, that puts us in the same position as FlyI. Not the best in the whole world...besides, where would we be based? AirTran
76 JeffLAS : Hey FriendlySkies....I know...I was just goofing with you but it must be frustrating being the little guy. Sort of like being a supplier to the Big 3
77 Milesrich : AWAC was owned by UA for a while in the early 90's. Then it was spun off. Perhaps the AFA will strike UA, and ZW can move their airplanes to another c
78 ATWZW170 : No one ever said it was the best business but it is the business all of us haven chosen to be in....even right now with my job at AWAC hanging on a st
79 SegmentKing : AWAC has some of the highest overhead in the regional industry and United wants to axe those costs. AWAC has treated their employees right (even thoug
80 ATWZW170 : AWAC does treat employees right...it's a shame companies like Mesa are making it more difficult to continue that trend. Let's face it, when the Mesa's
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