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Aerolineas Granted Routed To MEX Yesterday  
User currently offlineArgentina From Argentina, joined Aug 2000, 374 posts, RR: 12
Posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3407 times:

Finally, Argentina's Government granted Aerolineas Argentinas the 5 weekly EZE-LIM-MEX frequencies yesterday. This implies AR will have to rush to add its second A310-300, as flights are scheduled to start in January 2005.

Argentina-Mexico bilateral admits muiltiple operators from each country, up to 5 weekly frequencies from each side. Flights to MEX were halted by AR a couple of years ago, and later, through very obscure procedures, the route was assigned as a whole (all 5 frequencies) to Southern Winds, which could never start it.

Now is time for Aerolineas to do the job!








51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLVTMB From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

Will AR have fifth freedom rights for the LIM-MEX or MEX-LIM legs? Did they have in the past?

MB


User currently offlineArgentina From Argentina, joined Aug 2000, 374 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

As far as I know, the bilaterals allow 5th freedom rights. Aerolineas had 5th freedom rights in the past.

User currently offlineCivilav From Mexico, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3238 times:

Argentina,

Greetings from Cancún !!

I am very pleased to learn that AR will finally get the route as traffic is growing so enormously between Mexico in general and Buenos Aires. So much so it is becoming very difficult to get seats, never mind good rates !!

Question for you: any idea if CUN is in AR's plans any time soon as well ??
Southern Winds currently operates a weekly 767 charter EZE-CUN-EZE but no passengers can board locally (which is a shame...)

Thank you for breaking the news !!


User currently offlinePilotcoex From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3159 times:

I still can't believe AR discontinued flying to MEX. I think an A340 would be a good choice on that route.

User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3153 times:

Where is that 2nd A310 anyway?

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineWiLdmanVzla From Mexico, joined Sep 2000, 616 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3133 times:

That's really good news!!!!!... let's see how they manage it.

You can see how many people use to go down there via SCL with LA, just because of the expensive fares by MX.

I hope they will do very well... and a non stop option will be so welcomed here.

*******


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5222 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3119 times:

Sweeeet! A little more pressure for MX, LA, AM, CM and LB!

Despite MX high fares on the route LF are high and doing fine and in fact they are adding a 5th non-stop frequency next December.

Not only people considers LA but they also take CM and LB as another cheap option to EZE!

Still MX will have a point here because it will be the only airline flying NON STOP unless AR switch their A310 to A340 or B747.

I see CM and LB could be affected and a little less LA and AM.

Still routing EZE-LIM-MEX-ACA-EZE or EZE-LIM-MEX-ACA-LIM-EZE will not be the best, but at least another option for people who frequent this route!

Can't wait to see AR back to MEX!

Ricardo APM




Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6217 posts, RR: 30
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3096 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I'm really glad this is happening. However, AR is going to face strong competition from various sources. For example, they'll have to compete with LA in terms of service and with MX in terms of their stop. There is no way the A-310 could take off from MEX and make it all the way to BUE nonstop. I really hope it works though. I've been dreaming for this to happen for a long time!

User currently offlineMx330 From Mexico, joined Oct 2002, 828 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3029 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I just hope he comes in with light Big grin

Juan APM



All Canon! EOS 5D mk III, 8mm, 17-40, 24-105, 70-200 f2.8, 100-400L
User currently offlinePzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1393 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3018 times:

Hope AR the best, but if their product is one or two stops, they might fail it. Currently MX offers 5x nonstop and LA offers daily fast and very convenient connection services in SCL.

I am not sure if AR had traffic rights between LIM and MEX before. Anyway, hopefully they could change a/c for a nonstop as soon as they have their hands over it.

PZ

[Edited 2004-11-12 18:57:27]


Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
User currently offlineFly727 From Mexico, joined Jul 2003, 1789 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2994 times:

Skipper is working hard...

I'd like to welcome to the forums to my dear friend and colleague Thomas Heimbach -- Kezensky --

RM  Smile



There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5439 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2990 times:

A little off topic ... but, does Argentina publish international traffic data on a public web site?


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinePzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1393 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2980 times:

MasseyBrown,

YOu can look into http://www.aa2000.com.ar/corporate_new/index.php
There you have a list of 32 Argentinian airport. click on Data Traffic and you will have data for 2001, 2002 and 2003 both international as domestic.




Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
User currently offlineLatinPlane From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2724 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2974 times:


Any word on whether PLUNA will actually start service to MEX?

 Smile LatinPlane



User currently offlineArgentina From Argentina, joined Aug 2000, 374 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2943 times:

Aerolineas flights will be EZE-LIM-MEX-LIM-EZE. They are departing EZE on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays, at 12:30 pm, arriving MEX probably in the early evening. Flights back to EZE are night
flights.

Second A310-300 is supposed to be c/n 686 but no news on it yet. It's an ex Air Jamaica aircaft 6Y-JAE.



User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5439 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2864 times:

Pzurita1, thanks. It has exactly what I was looking for.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

Great news! The rate at which the Argentine colony in Mexico City is growing is unbelievably fast, so it makes sense to have more travel possibilities. Hopefully at some point AR will be able to upgrade the route to an A340 and eliminate the stop in LIM... I have the feeling that, unless AR offers ultra-competitive fares for the LIM-MEX segments, almost all of their pax will be MEX-EZE pax. Besides, the MEX-LIM market is in my opinion already well served.

Any news on whether there will be promotional fares or something?




Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2815 times:

I personally think it will be difficult for AR to make it in the Mexican market if they dont offer a non-stop service.

For travels from MEX to EZE the best option, without doubt, is MX non-stop service. And then there is RG daily flights with the B777 with connection in GRU.

Also, LA offers connection with their service MEX-SCL. In my opinion LA has the edge because pax may have the option to travel the connection SCL-EZE or, more convenient, SCL-AEP!

"Any word on whether PLUNA will actually start service to MEX?"

Pax MEX-MVD normally are connected with RG (MEX-GRU-MVD), since PU is managed by RG. I dont see any possibility of a MVD-MEX direct flight in the short/medium-term.

Just one question: with this merger/association of AM and MX, how are they goind to work out their alliances with airlines in which they have direct competition. One example:

RG operates daily flights MEX-GRU (B777), in codeshare with MX. AM also operates daily flights MEX-GRU (B767) in direct competition with RG/AM. Is AM going to end its cooperation with RG??

Tks,
Hardi


User currently offlineA320319318 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2787 times:

MX still has the lead in business class due to the fact that the 767 only has 42 sleeper seats, great pitch. No one will be able to compete in that market, unless they re-configure their business/first class seats.
Comments?


User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2788 times:

Hardi:

No one is serving SCL-AEP. AEP is strictly domestic and trans-River Plate (Uruguay) flights only, although I have no doubts that LA and RG would love to get a foothold in the downtown airport. However, it needs a few more air bridges and parking spots, as even though only 4-5 airlines serve AEP on a daily basis, you'd be amazed how much space AR+AU take up!

PU to MEX?

Highly unlikely. No history of such a route, and as far as I know, most of the 500,000 Uruguayans who have left the country since 1998 crossed the borders into Argentina and Brazil, maybe a handful went to Chile and Paraguay, but Mexico? Not that I know of!
Incidentally, in case anyone was wondering if PU were planning to serve MIA, as practically every other Latin American country does, the answer is they cannot as Uruguay was also placed under CAT II restrictions at about the same time as Argentina (mid-2002), meaning that no CX-registered aircraft, like their 757 or 767, can enter US airspace. Not that PU has any history in the USA, but in case anyone was wondering, now you know!

It probably makes a lot more sense to Uruguayans to fly as far as EZE, GIG or GRU and take whatever they please from there. Also, remember that they are few, and the economic crisis Uruguay suffered a year after Argentina was in relative terms probably more severe than that of their larger neighbhour, which is actually the reason Uair sprung up when it did.
Finally, according to the aviation magazine Avion Revue, the main reason that AR's acquisition of PU failed was Uruguayan popular opposition. With the amount that has gone wrong in Uruguay on account of Argentina, if that was the case, I can't say I blame them.

Saludos,

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2776 times:

LVZXV:

I always wondered why there were no flights from Brazil to AEP. I think I read on this forum that someone had travelled SCL-AEP. Maybe I overlook the post and the flight actually was SCL-EZE. I am sure AEP is extremely busy, I would compare it to CGH in Brazil.

Another point: AR operates daily flights POA-EZE. Some of these flights (3 x week) have a stop-over in MVD (POA-MVD-EZE). AR could get an edge in the market if it offered the flight POA-MVD-AEP!

"Uruguay was also placed under CAT II restrictions at about the same time as Argentina (mid-2002)"

I'm shocked with this information. But a country in CAT-II would be able to operate Airbuses to the US? Sorry, but in my point of view putting Uruguay and Argentina in CAT-II is ridiculous to say the least.

Anyway, AA will start non-stop direct servies MIA-MVD in December. So the AA flight to MIA-EZE will not continue to MVD anymore.

And PU should have started non-stop services MVD-MAD a long time ago - IB is having a LF of 85% on their newly introduced nonstop flights MAD-MVD. Currently PU operates MVD-GIG-MAD (767)

A320319318:

A sleeper on a 767? Seems rather strange...

Rgs,
Hardi


User currently offlineMarambio From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2004, 1160 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2762 times:

Hello Hardi,

I always wondered why there were no flights from Brazil to AEP. I think I read on this forum that someone had travelled SCL-AEP. Maybe I overlook the post and the flight actually was SCL-EZE.

The only airline to operate AEP-SCL and AEP-GRU was Lapa, for a short time, while they were owned by Bolivia's Aerosur. Those flights were AEP-MDZ-SCL and AEP-IGR-GRU. Passengers had to leave the plane at MDZ or IGR and do customs and migrations there. However, MJ put some ads that were like: "We make it easier - Sao Paulo and Santiago de Chile, from Aeroparque".

This said, as XV well mentioned, customs and migration facilities at AEP are only available for Uruguay, thus no flights to other countries can be operated from our downtown airport.

I'm shocked with this information. But a country in CAT-II would be able to operate Airbuses to the US? Sorry, but in my point of view putting Uruguay and Argentina in CAT-II is ridiculous to say the least.

A country in CAT II can fly to the US aicraft that were bought/leased before the country was downgraded to CAT II. To make it easier, AR can only fly its 742s and A342s to the US. Pluna could only fly its 732s or 733 (!), since the 763 and 752 were leased after downgrading.

Also it's worth mentioning that a country in CAT II cannot fly to new destinations in the US. AR is really interested on flying to LAX, and opening a daily MIA flight (currently it's 5x weekly), but they can only use the slots they got before we were downgraded.

I completely agree on the fact that Argentina and Uruguay should be in CAT I. An FAA delegation visited Argentina a few weeks ago in order to see how things are moving here -- we've got to be patient.

Anyway, AA will start non-stop direct servies MIA-MVD in December. So the AA flight to MIA-EZE will not continue to MVD anymore.

Wrong. AA will start MIA-MVD on a 3x weekly basis. The other four days of the week, the flight will be operated as always -- MIA-EZE-MVD.

And PU should have started non-stop services MVD-MAD a long time ago - IB is having a LF of 85% on their newly introduced nonstop flights MAD-MVD. Currently PU operates MVD-GIG-MAD (767)

MVD's runway is too short for a fully-loaded pax+cargo+fuel 763 or A343 going to Europe. That's why PU decided to do the stop-over at GIG.

I believe IB decided to operate MVD with restrictions applying, mainly in cargo. For the Christmas season, Iberia announced they will fly MAD-GIG-MVD, without getting rights in the GIG-MVD segment. This makes sense since it's in December that most people travel, and that the cargo loads rise considerabily.

For your information, Carrasco's longest runway is 2.700 meters. Certainly not enough for a big plane fully loaded.

Saludos,
Marambio

[Edited 2004-11-13 20:09:51]


Aerolíneas Argentinas - La Argentina que levanta vuelo.
User currently offlineLVZXV From Gabon, joined Mar 2004, 2041 posts, RR: 36
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

¿Que tal Marambio?

I know PU's 707 used to stop at GIG enroute to MAD; their DC-10 did the same, right?

Also, even if Carrasco's runway were long enough, MVD-MAD would be extremely tight with a 767. Southern Winds' 767 reaches MAD practically "on the fumes", with very little fuel to spare. The -300ER, in a 2-class (220-240 seat) layout, wasn't designed for 12 hour sectors.

Out of curiosity, what altitude do AA and UA's 767/777s reach on the 140-mile hop to MVD? How long does it take them? Do they even need to refuel upon arriving from the US before continuing to Uruguay?

I totally concur with your views on the farcical CAT II downgrade. When, out of curiosity, was the last time a Uruguayan airline had anything vaguely resembling a serious incident? If you exclude the Air Force (i.e. the 1972 Andes crash), nothing springs to mind... (unless the FAA thinks the Austral DC-9 was Uruguayan!)

Saludos,

ZXV




How do you say "12 months" in Estonian?
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7582 posts, RR: 42
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2737 times:

Hardi, we in Mexico still don't know what will happen. Especially because all announcements as to the integration of MX and AM so far have been obscure and nothing definite has been confirmed.

Perhaps the only thing that will happen is that all the back-office of AM and MX will be integrated but the two brands and the two networks will remain separate. In that scenario, I would not expect AM to leave SkyTeam or MX to sever its ties with AA, LH, RG, IB, etc. Would a full merger occur (which is probably not going to happen), then obviously some of the codeshares will end.

I have been disconnected from the latest events during the past 2 or 3 weeks so maybe another Mexican a.netter can provide more information.

On another subject, while I agree that MX will definitely have the upper hand in the route thanks to its superior business class service, adequate pricing might help AR get more coach cabin pax. If only AR had mileage arrangements with more carriers...



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
25 Hardiwv : Marambio: Thanks for the details. Some time ago a visited PU's webpage and they announce that MVD has been going through some expansions: fingers (man
26 Derico : That's right, MVD is undergoing some renovations. That's definately due to the flights to Madrid and Miami. As for SCL-AEP, someone had mentioned that
27 Andahuailas : interesting choice for AR, considering LIM-MEX is currently served by TA, LP and AM.
28 Rojo : Out of curiosity, what altitude do AA and UA's 767/777s reach on the 140-mile hop to MVD? How long does it take them? Do they even need to refuel upon
29 Marambio : The flight lasts 28 minutes and it beats Buquebus anytime... That's quite relative. Driving to EZE from downtown Buenos Aires: 45 minutes to an hour Y
30 Marambio : I know PU's 707 used to stop at GIG enroute to MAD; their DC-10 did the same, right? If I recall correctly, the DC-10 route was the revolting MVD-EZE-
31 Hardiwv : "For the Christmas season, Iberia announced they will fly MAD-GIG-MVD, without getting rights in the GIG-MVD segment" Is this going to be a stop-over
32 Post contains links and images LatinPlane : "PU to MEX? Highly unlikely. No history of such a route, and as far as I know, most of the 500,000 Uruguayans who have left the country since 1998 cro
33 Rojo : Marambio: For me it was more convenient to fly AA MVD-EZE-MVD than using the Buquebus service, since I was in Punta del Este. I took a bus to MVD whic
34 Post contains images LVZXV : LatinPlane: Thanks for your informative post. Uruguay has its fair share of educated professionals (even Carlos Paez Vilaro and his son, Carlitos, who
35 AR385 : Latinplane, Yes, you'd be surprised how well educated and qualified are the Argentine, Brazilian, Venezuelan etc. "night shift workers" you will find
36 Pdpsol : LVZXV, Love the chatter about PU, MVD and PDP! I completely agree it makes NO sense whatsoever for PU to initiate flights to MEx as RG can do a fine j
37 Post contains images LatinPlane : AR385 Well... I don't blame you guys. Is it because there isn't enough good looking Mexican "night shift workers" in Monterrey to perform the job, tha
38 Marambio : Is this going to be a stop-over in GIG, or they will actually transport pax MAD-GIG? It will be a stop-over only. Since it will be temporary, IB didn'
39 LVZXV : Marambio: You wouldn't know, by any chance, what sort of fares PU offer for an AEP-MVD-GIG-MAD roundtrip, would you? I was thinking exactly the same t
40 Hardiwv : "You wouldn't know, by any chance, what sort of fares PU offer for an AEP-MVD-GIG-MAD roundtrip, would you? " ZXV, this question is very pertinent, si
41 Marambio : You wouldn't know, by any chance, what sort of fares PU offer for an AEP-MVD-GIG-MAD roundtrip, would you? I was thinking exactly the same thing about
42 LVZXV : Many thanks, Marambio! The price is not bad at all, and the hours are pretty civilised too. If I ever have a lot of time to burn, I may take that flig
43 Post contains images Derico : Jesus Christ, Latinplane, it's been a very looong time! How are you!! We came along at about the same time to A.net, I can't believe it's almost five
44 Rojo : Do you want to know a little secret about the Buquebus catamarans? Did you notice the strange 3-2-2-3 seating configurations? Those seats belonged to
45 LVZXV : That explains a lot... They look really old and they are falling apart... But hey, at least "the lifejacket placed under your seat" can be of more use
46 Post contains images LatinPlane : Derico Hey, old buddy!!! What happened to you? You disappeared for quite some time. Yes, Derico, I remember you quite well. I still remember you telli
47 Post contains images EZEIZA : Hola a todos, "And Buquebus is way cheaper than the plane." Marambio: The non-stop buquebus service to Montevideo costs approx 300 pesos, roughly 100
48 Post contains images Marambio : Marambio: The non-stop buquebus service to Montevideo costs approx 300 pesos, roughly 100 U$D (2 hrs 45 min trip) and with AA or UA you can get a roun
49 EZEIZA : Hola Marambio, Wow, those are high prices! Where did you get those fares? In May I flew MAD-EZE-MAD on A4 for 520 Euros, tax included! saludos
50 Post contains links Marambio : I just did a small search at http://www.sw.com.ar and that's what I got. I also was very surprised by such a high fare. Saludos, Marambio
51 Ghost77 : So far anyone knows exactly what day in January will Argentina's first flight will be landing at MEX? Fares? Has the second A310 arrived yet? Ricardo
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