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How To Apply To Be A Scab?  
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7778 times:

Let's say, god forbid, US Airways' Customer Service Representatives chose to go on strike. Would there be any way to apply to be a strikebreaker, in an attempt to (A) keep them flying and (B) get myself a few dollars? I understand that doing so would cost me any chance of being in any sort of union for the rest of my life, but how would I go about doing this?


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyingNanook From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 830 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7617 times:

I'm not sure if this is how it works in the airline industry, but if they will hire scabs, they'll probably put out a job announcement and ask for applicants. That's what happened in California when the grocery clerks went on strike. The grocery stores posted signs on the doors looking for temporary workers and paid them something like $18/hr.


Semper ubi sub ubi.
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7581 times:

doing so would cost me any chance of being in any sort of union for the rest of my life

It could cost you more than that! Although your intentions are obviously good, it might not be the best idea...



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7547 times:

Yea its not a good idea...the company I'm sure has a plan for management employees to operate some kind of minimal international schedule to at least make some money. Besides the union cannot strike per the railway labor act with out a federal mediator releasing both party's for a 30 day cooling off period...and as far as I have read that hasn't happened yet...the union voted to strike if it came to it...but they have quite a bit before it will!


-m

 Big thumbs up


User currently offlineGeoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7473 times:

Forgive my ignorance here, but what are the advantages of being in a union? Our closest neighbour, France, strikes if their boss farts, but what good does it do? Any sensible government wouldn't give in to strikes like this, else they'd be held up for ransom for anything!

Okay, some benefits I can conceive are: union representation if you're fired/suspended, better pay (but better pay for non-union members also?)...?

Geoff M.


User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7441 times:

Depends on the industry in which you work and the agreements with the company. I would assume that the agreements that the airline unions have with the majority of the legacy carriers are similar to those in other industries. In the railroad industry which I worked for, joining the union is not optional on most railroads. Either you join up with a union or get terminated as soon as your training ends. On one hand, union benefits include representation and collective bargaining with management, life insurance, scholarships for member's dependants and death benefits. Non-union workers have a much harder time of it and don't even think of being a scab. No matter what the union organizers or management say, things can get real ugly during a strike very quickly. Don't know about the airlines but being a scab on the railroad or other industries can literally get you killed. One engineer I knew though about going to work on a plant railroad in West Virginia when the plant was preparing to go on strike. Management told all the replacement workers that if the strike should go, they should be prepared to be locked in at the plant for a minimum of six weeks (living on plant grounds for their safety).


"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
User currently offlineRlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7418 times:

I think that there is a little bit of a difference between Railroad workers and US Airways' Customer Service Representatives. Besides I think they are so fed up that they would not even bother to picket. They all know that if they walk it is over for good.




I can drive faster than you
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7391 times:

Unions have no place in post-industrial revolution countries.

They're nothing but a way for blue collar Americans to extort more money for less work.

N


User currently offlineWGW2707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1197 posts, RR: 34
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7374 times:

I think that there is a little bit of a difference between Railroad workers and US Airways' Customer Service Representatives.

In the United States, both groups are subject to the Railway Labor Act, which is a more limiting and intensive bit of labor legislation than the conventional labor laws. If I remember correctly, the RLA was introduced after a series of severe railway-related strikes that occured around the dawn of the 20th century, and the general idea is to prevent these strikes, which can have a serious effect on the efficiency of the national transport infrastructure.

-WGW2707


User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7365 times:

Union benefits go way beyond pay and benefits, but those are usually the the most visible aspects.

To understand the benefits (at least in the United States), you must first understand why certain labor groups choose to organize (or unionize) in the first place. Unions are usually born out of an adversarial relationship with management and working conditions that are extremely poor or dangerous. At thier inception, many unions also provided for the retirement, and even limited forms of insurance for thier members. The main goal of most unions was to force decent wages and safe working conditions for thier members. There are certain political aspects to them as well, but they are beyond the scope of this discussion. Today, some union functions have become redundant with labor laws, OSHA, and other agencies taking over the functions that unions once accomplished. That said, there are a few specific areas where there is much work left to be done in the areas of safety and appropriate regulation.

The primary down side to unions, as I see it, is that once they are formed, the relationship between the members and the management will forever be adversarial. The labor groups become an entrenched part of the company that will resist all means to remove it. Even if a union accomplished all its goals, it must now remain to safe guard them, for there will be no trust between labor and management. The employees can tend to look at themselves as union members first, and employees second. This can be detrimental to productivity.

Unions, however, can also force a company to be more efficient and productive. At an ailing company, the easiest way to reduce costs is simply to reduce salaries. This addresses the symptom while ignoring the disease. Unions can force the company to look at other ways to reduce costs and be an advocate for more creative cost reduction. The other side of this coin is that they also need to know when to blink. Sometimes you have to take a little pay cut.

I think the government should, to the largest extent possible, stay out of labor negotiations. Let them run thier course. It is really a private matter between the employees and the management. Besides, what could be more free market and capitalistic than two sides agreeing to terms of employment and wages, then signing a contract to bind themselves to what they have agreed upon? To understand the significance of that, you must understand that contracts are protected directly by the US Constitution.Similar proceedings go on between companies and even between individuals all the time.

That said, I would never be a scab. Not even in my pre-union days. To undercut people like that is dishonorable. Your working environment will likely be terrible. Wait until the labor issues are settled, then apply to be a regular employee/member. Scabs are generally fired or let go once the union returns to work. The union will insist upon it as a condition of the settlement, no matter what promises atre made to you. If you find unions too objectionable, then I suggest you work for a company where there are not any on property. There is usually a reason they are absent.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineRlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7350 times:

My replay was to this in the post above mine. I meant that I do not think that the US Air CS emloyees would be such a danger to scabs.

"Management told all the replacement workers that if the strike should go, they should be prepared to be locked in at the plant for a minimum of six weeks (living on plant grounds for their safety). "



I can drive faster than you
User currently offlineMorecy From United States of America, joined May 2000, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7315 times:

"Unions have no place in post-industrial revolution countries"

It's an issue of balance of power that is inherant to human nature and has nothing to do with the industrial revolution timeline. Even our government has established checks and balances... and that's not about to be abolished anytime soon. One can argue that unions have no place in a well-run company where management truly looks out for the interest and well-being of it's employees, as well as the company's bottom line. Do you think all companies are really looking out for their employees? More often than not, the threat of unionization "helps" management make fair decisions and policies.


User currently offlineAirtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7292 times:
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SHUPirate1,
I hope for your sake that you don't cross the US picket line (if there ends up being one). Being a scab is a good way to get the crap beat out of you. These people are fighting for their lives, and by becoming a scab, you will corrupt the process. If you do chose to walk across that picket line, I wont feel sorry when you feel the wrath of the union employees.



Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7291 times:

OK, now that all of you have missed my actual point of bringing up this topic, who at US Airways might I be able to contact about being a replacement employee should their current Customer Service Representatives (the union ones) go on strike?


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7279 times:

Airtran-They aren't fighting for their lines. They've resigned themselves to the fact that their company is going down anyway (accurately or not) and they are simply trying to bring the rest of their co-workers at US Airways down with them. I have no problem with people, or entire employee groups striking, as long as the strike is in good faith. Clearly, in this situation, they would be striking in poor faith. These are CSR's, remember, that would rather make nothing and sit on their tails, in an attempt to bring down the company, rather than make some money (less than they were making) and keep the airline they are working for flying.


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineAir2gxs From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7263 times:

If a strike seems imminent they will post ads in the paper and sometimes on the radio. If you apply now, you will more than likely be placed into a pool of likely candidates to hire in the event of a strike. You may also receive a job offer after the release by the NMB. If you accept you will be placed on probation. Usually this means you have no union protection and thus when the union strikes, you are expected to remain on the job.

Crossing the line is up to the individual. It may be a life changing experience, it may be nothing to you. All depends on you conscience and what you have to cross every day to get to work.

I've never crossed and I was (am) no friend of the union. I see unions as a way to protect the lazy and incompetent. They are also very good at de-motivating those that can be very good employees.


User currently offlineRlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1088 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7251 times:

I love a challenge. I would apply in a second. What are a bunch of CSRs going to do to me. Throw their Cher CDs at me or something?


I can drive faster than you
User currently offlineJAXpax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7228 times:

OK, now that all of you have missed my actual point of bringing up this topic, who at US Airways might I be able to contact about being a replacement employee should their current Customer Service Representatives (the union ones) go on strike?

If you do this, you had better give up your dreams of becoming an elected official in democratic South Florida!


User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7211 times:

"I see unions as a way to protect the lazy and incompetent. "

Common stereotype. A competent, well run union will do neither. My local has actually done the opposite and told a few people that they are on thier own, and will have to pay the consequences for thier behavior. I can only speak for pilot managers, but too often, the only disciplinary tool a Chief Pilot or DO can think of is firing. When your only tool is a hammer, then every situation is a nail. Our union has helped suggest alternatives which still carry consequences for the pilot, but do not result in termination.



Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7203 times:

SHUPirate: Well, the fact that you'd be willing to be a scab in the first place shows you have very little concept of strikes, but then to add that they're only striking because they don't care anymore. Well, I'd like for you to work somewhere for 15 years, raise and support your family on your salary, which isn't much but it allows you to pay the bills, and take a vacation (thanks to your travel benefits). You don't live a glamorous lifestyle, but you're comfortable and you've been putting away so your and your wife can retire without needing the support of the government or your kids. Then imagine that suddenly your salary is cut to the point that you can barely afford your mortgage and put food on the table. This isn't about lazy people not giving a shit anymore, it's about people trying make ends meet. People who get into the airline business don't dream of being rich. Most realize that they will never work their way up the corporate ladder. They just want to live their lives as best and as comfortably as they can.

Rlwynn: I don't know what CSAs in Germany are like, but I don't think very many US Airways employees would be throwing Cher CDs at you. Pretty ignorant!

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7190 times:

JAXpax-Thank you for the oh, so kind words. All kidding aside, I don't have a problem with unions. In fact, with the current NHL lockout, I support the players, rather than the owners, based on the fact that NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman is clearly WRONG about revenue sharing not being able to do enough to help out the league. On this point, however, I would support the company. You seem to forget that these Customer Service Representatives, as I have said, and others have said many times, have no interest in negotiating, and only intend to have the airline that they work for, that signs their paycheck, go away. If they actually intended to negotiate, I'd certainly side with those CSR's, and not apply here. But their voting to authorize a strike in the absence of any permanent paycuts simply amounts to bargaining (or in this case not bargaining) in poor faith.


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineJAXpax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7187 times:

If they actually intended to negotiate, I'd certainly side with those CSR's, and not apply here

If you intend on going into politics, I think you need to take a few lessons on how much details really matter to the public. Labeled a scab in a heavily democratic area, forget office, despite the details (which nobody will want to hear, or understand).


User currently offlineCRPilot From Costa Rica, joined Nov 2004, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7176 times:

Unions have no place in post-industrial revolution countries.

They're nothing but a way for blue collar Americans to extort more money for less work


Gigneil you must not work for an airline! You would know better than to say something like that. They are, for better or for worse, a necessary evil in this industry for all personnel involve in running the everyday ops...pilots, fa's, dispatcher's, ground ops, etc..

Are you in accounting by any chance???? You sure sound like it!!!



Flying is a privilege!
User currently offlineAASTEW From Dominican Republic, joined Oct 2001, 447 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7169 times:

SHUPirate,

Just ask some AA F/A scabs about crossing the line. In AA's F/A strike in '93 there was parking lot patrol! Go ahead stand up to the USAirways C/S employees!hehe

As for replacement workers, I almost became one due to my ignorance of the situation at the time. I was 19 and wanted to be a flight attendant! I was just thinking about myself. I didn't understand what my union brothers and sisters were fighting about! Now as a 9yr F/A at AA, thank god I didn't go down the scab/replacement worker road.


User currently offlineJAXpax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7164 times:

But their voting to authorize a strike in the absence of any permanent paycuts simply amounts to bargaining (or in this case not bargaining) in poor faith.

As long as they don't actually take self-help (strike) before the Section 6 notice, bargaining, arbitration with NMB, refusal of binding arbitration, cooling off period, or other steps of the Kabuki-theatre process, I see nothing wrong with it. Any strike before that point would be illegal. They've just basically said what they'll do if it goes that far.

Though my knowledge of how things actually work under bankruptcy is a bit short, that's how things would normally work.


25 JAXpax : As for replacement workers, I almost became one due to my ignorance of the situation at the time. I was 19 and wanted to be a flight attendant! I was
26 Jetjeanes : If us Csr,s decieded to actually go out on strike,this could very well be just the end of their jobs, and the company... But i bet the company has con
27 Air2gxs : Lowrider, I have plenty of tools in my toolbox, but when I'm fought every step of the way, I can only feel that the union is out to protect ITS income
28 57AZ : The Railway Labor Act, as enacted and enforced applies to all transportation companies be they railroad, motor transport, airline, etc. Therefore, it
29 Moman : Well I am not union and no friend of unions, but I believe there is a need for them in certain industries. I wish the CSA's the best for US Airways. I
30 SHUPirate1 : Yippee...we've gone through 29 replies, and not one of them has accurately answered the question. Who should I contact? Should I call US Airways Headq
31 JAXpax : I'd suggest calling this phone number, they'd probably be more than enthusiastic to give you information on scabbing: (202) 434-1100
32 SHUPirate1 : JAXpax-Would you like to tell me who in Washington, District of Columbia that is?
33 JAXpax : Would you like to tell me who in Washington, District of Columbia that is? An information number for this topic.
34 SHUPirate1 : JAXpax-Don't play dumb...I know what that number is (it's the number for the Communications Workers of America, who represents US Airways, I just chec
35 OPNLguy : >>>An information number for this topic. Not exactly; it's the HQ for the CWA... (Talk about setting the guy up...) Not that I'd personally recommend
36 Airtran737 : Enjoy life as a scab. I know a lot of old Eastern scabs, and let me tell you, I don't give a damn about how many hours they've logged in a 727 or any
37 57AZ : Airtran hit the nail on the head, though that description of the treatment of scabs is mild compared to that in other fields. If you want any long ter
38 PacificWestern : "Definition of a Strikebreaker," by Jack London "After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, the vampire, He had some awful substance left with
39 Avek00 : " Besides the union cannot strike per the railway labor act with out a federal mediator releasing both party's for a 30 day cooling off period...and a
40 N1120a : >The grocery stores posted signs on the doors looking for temporary workers and paid them something like $18/hr
41 KITH : WOW. Unions, non unions. its disgusting what people will do. If some one wants to be a scab, then by all means call US's main office and do it. The sa
42 Jeb94 : Personally, I wouldn't do this if I were you. Its not worth it but its your own funeral. By the way, the company will still fail, strike or no strike.
43 ORDflyer : A lot of strong opinions on this issue...figured I'd throw in my thoughts. I'll preface by saying that I really don't sympathize much with the US empl
44 Posti : In my experiences unions are nothing but blind conformity at it's finest. I'm independent and not greedy, I can make decisions for myself. You may say
45 Bill142 : They will probably contact rejected applicants. That is what QF did and is currently training strike breakers for planned strikes by FA's over christm
46 RyanAFAMSP : SHUPirate1- The really pathetic thing about these discussions on this forum is that most people have completely bought into the forum that USAirways'
47 SHUPirate1 : RyanAFAMSP-I think we all know that isn't true, it's just one of a good many reasons why US Airways is running into trouble. However, the CWA and its
48 Lowrider : "It takes a whole lot to get someone terminated where I work (excepting some very severe infractions) and the employee (along with the union) is aware
49 Evergreen : The talk of union protections against the evil capitalist machine brings to mind George Bailey's speech to Mr. Potter in It's a Wonderful Life: "Just
50 Law4fun : I would second the Manpower suggestion...stay away from a sinking ship. Let the rats jump ship but don't be part of the replacement rats that are put
51 57AZ : In response to Bill142, the laws of the state in which you work or you employer is incorporated determines whether or not you can be forced to join a
52 Slider : You know, years from now, aliens will read this thread and realize that humans were nothing but unsophisticated apes. This physical violence stuff is
53 SHUPirate1 : Slider-Thank you for the kind words. It's not for your position itself, but for your explaination of your position, as well as you telling us to do wh
54 Slider : Thanks SHUPirate.... I understand the mechanisms which unions use. Ultimately, collective bargaining is dependent upon the threat of--and follow throu
55 Ltbewr : My father was a union member (UAW) at Curtiss-Wright in New Jersey in the 1950's and to 1963. I remember when he was on strike for almost 2 months. It
56 FlyPNS1 : One problem with your hypothesis, ShuPirate: It's not the union that refuses to negotiate. It's USAirways management that refuses to negotiate. USAirw
57 NYCAAer : I could never cross a picket line. I was on strike in 1993, and those who crossed and went to work are still harassed to this day. After the flight at
58 Jetjeanes : And like airtrans didnt get their share of scabs from eastern?? This union backbone was really great from the 40,s to the 70,s,but they are just about
59 Drewwright : Once upon a time, i thought unions were not important...then I went to work for the airlines. I'm guessing, Jetjeanes, that you don't work for the air
60 VC-10 : Unions, however, can also force a company to be more efficient and productive. At an ailing company, the easiest way to reduce costs is simply to redu
61 57AZ : I would venture to say that your experiances were exceptions rather than the general rule. In most industries, a properly run union can indeed force t
62 FutureFo : Trust me you do not want to break a line in anyway, shape, or form. You will be branded for the rest of your natural life. Sean from MCO and MKE
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