Aa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6214 times:
Saw a thread on here that sounded silly at first...
Why would LAX airport officials highly discourage carriers from flying the 727 Officials reportly have denied several Mexican carriers from flying any 727 into LAX and told them to bring another a/c on to their runways. What gives?
N1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6119 times:
The main reason for it is noise. LAX is an all Stage III airport with very testy, very rich neighbors with beachfront property. Even hushkitted 727s are very loud. For example, Aviacsa used to fly in 722s with hushkits and winglets (like Pan Am III had) and they switched to 737s asap. 727s can still come in in the day time, if they have hushkits or Tay conversion, but they will not fly in on scheduled PAX flights. One of the main reasons for the Mexican carrier, that I believe was MX, being stopped from flying with the 727 was because it was to be a tecalote flight, one of the ones that leaves late at night and arrives early in the morning in Mexico. LAX has a loud aircraft curfew, which they enforced here. Hope that helped.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Aa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6101 times:
N1120a,
One of the main reasons for the Mexican carrier, that I believe was MX, being stopped from flying with the 727 was because it was to be a tecalote flight, one of the ones that leaves late at night and arrives early in the morning in Mexico.
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15870 posts, RR: 66 Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6054 times:
I guess that it comes down to the subjects of noise and pollution
Are you kidding me?
I would think 4 engine a/c would put out alot more pollution and noise.
AA777jr
No he's not kidding. Compared to more modern quads, the 727 is much louder and dirtier.
And as Spacepope pointed out, the wheel loading is way up there. In fact, the 722 has the highest wheel loading of ANY Western jet flying today. Yes, that's including the 773.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
COEWRNJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1061 posts, RR: 21 Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6016 times:
Could someone please explain to me what wheel loading is?
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15870 posts, RR: 66 Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5988 times:
Wheel loading is how much weight is on each wheel. The heavier the plane and the fewer wheels, the higher the wheel loading. So if you have a heavy plane you need more wheels or the wheel loading will be so high that the wheels will sink into the pavement.
For example, the 380 has 4 more wheels compared to the 747, and can thus have a comparable wheel loading despite higher weight.
Total weight is of course also important, but this comes more into focus when you are talking at the total weight that a bridge or culvert can take.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
COEWRNJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1061 posts, RR: 21 Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5966 times:
Planespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5941 times:
Noooo it's not banned at LAX. Haven't you seen the tv show!? that one 727 is always parked outside Heather Lockliers window.
Dalmd88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2365 posts, RR: 15 Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5885 times:
They can't ban the 727. Only the FAA can ban an aircraft type. This comes out of the local noise ordanices put in place by cities like LGB. As the law stands only the FAA has this power. The few that were in place have been grandfathered in. LAX has to allow any legal aircraft to use it's facilities during operating hours. The 727 have hush kits which bring them into complance with Stage III. Sure they are still loud but they do meet the regs. Tehy can ask operators not to use them but that is all they can do.
Leskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 72 Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5858 times:
Dalmd88, can they - in other words, would this be legal - use the method that's common here in Europe - the "gentle encouraging" of use of modern equipment by simply raising the landing fees for marginally compliant aircraft?
That was, among others, one of the primary reasons why B727s left our skies quite a while ago...
Chrisjake From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 843 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5661 times:
doesnt Raytheon fly that interesting looking 727 into LAX regularly? ...the one with the loong pointy nose? i know i saw it there on my last visit back in April.
chris
Well nothing's dead down here, just a little tired
LongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4280 posts, RR: 36 Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5635 times:
I would think the wheel loading of a B727-200 would be about the same as an A321. I regularly fly the A321 to LAX, (quietly). It has the same wheel configuration as the B727-200.
Air Canada's A321s weigh about 205,000 lbs/ 93,000 Kgs, about the same as our long since retired B727-200s.
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
United_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7159 posts, RR: 8 Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5574 times:
I guess they're not banned.....
Airline Champion Air
Flight Number 624
Departure City (Airport) Tucson, AZ (TUS)
Departure Time 11/12/2004 04:27 PM
Arrival City (Airport) Los Angeles, CA (LAX)
Arrival Time 11/12/2004 04:36 PM
Remaining Flight Time 00:24
Aircraft Type Boeing 727 Stage 3 (-100 or -200)
Current Altitude 31,000 feet
Current Groundspeed 445 mph
Flight Status In Flight
Airline Federal Express
Flight Number 1866
Departure City (Airport) Oakland, CA (OAK)
Departure Time 11/12/2004 03:06 AM
Arrival City (Airport) Los Angeles, CA (LAX)
Arrival Time 11/12/2004 03:54 AM
Remaining Flight Time 00:00
Aircraft Type Boeing 727 Stage 3 (-100 or -200)
Current Altitude 0 feet
Current Groundspeed 0 mph
Flight Status Arrived
Airline Federal Express
Flight Number 3858
Departure City (Airport) Oakland, CA (OAK)
Departure Time 11/12/2004 02:00 PM
Arrival City (Airport) Los Angeles, CA (LAX)
Arrival Time 11/12/2004 02:55 PM
Remaining Flight Time 00:00
Aircraft Type Boeing 727 Stage 3 (-100 or -200)
Current Altitude 0 feet
Current Groundspeed 0 mph
Flight Status Arrived
'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
LAXINTL From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22030 posts, RR: 51 Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5527 times:
B727s banned at LAX?? huh
Nope we regularly get B727 ops from cargo carriers and charter airlines like Miami Air and Champion Air.
I'd actually love to see more 727s, as its indeed a classic aircraft.
One thing that LAX was somewhat restrictive on was prior the nationwide stage-III requirement, any NEW services had to be operated by stage-III compliant aircraft. This precluded non hushkitted stage-II B727s and other aircraft like the older DC-8s from being introduced at LAX.
However now that all aircraft are required to be stage-III in the US, this requirement went away.
The only other real noise restriction at LAX is a ban on engine runs for maintenance during the late night/early morning hours.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
N1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25852 posts, RR: 79 Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5494 times:
>They can't ban the 727. Only the FAA can ban an aircraft type. This comes out of the local noise ordanices put in place by cities like LGB. As the law stands only the FAA has this power. The few that were in place have been grandfathered in. LAX has to allow any legal aircraft to use it's facilities during operating hours. The 727 have hush kits which bring them into complance with Stage III. Sure they are still loud but they do meet the regs. Tehy can ask operators not to use them but that is all they can do.<
Like I said, they have stopped new services from coming in if they are over a certain decible level, in between certain hours.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Jetjeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1415 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5408 times:
There not banned,wouldnt donald trump be surprised if he was diverted to san...lol
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5379 times:
those jerkoff people..its like what i hear about SFO..where its too loud for planes to arrive at 1R/1L and DEFINITELY a source of problem at ORD where the locals don't want new runways......well you know what...TO BAD.those airports have been there before anyone (at least most) people's sorry ass got there....and if not..to bad..there are WAY too many people, workers, companies, lives, etc. dependent on these things happening....don't like it...MOVE!!!
Jetjeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1415 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5130 times:
Yeah and ive got a convair 880 that smokes to hell,,they would really love that
Midway7 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 140 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4242 times:
Just a note:
I miss the ole 727 at airports. It was fun to watch them take off on 95 degree days, barely climbing, loud as hell, with smoke coming out of the back. That was spotting.
Syncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 1983 posts, RR: 14 Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4101 times:
I'm pretty sure Kitty Hawk Cargo takes a 727 into LAX from FWA almost everyday as well.
25 Frugalqxnwa: Jacobin777, I definately agree with you, especially since LAX started out as Mines Field in the late 1920s. In a few more years, DEN will also be havi
26 Tan flyr: "I miss the ole 727 at airports. It was fun to watch them take off on 95 degree days, barely climbing, loud as hell, with smoke coming out of the bac
27 BR715-A1-30: Midway7, I hear ya. When I was in San Antonio in 2000, DL and UA would still bring 727s in. I'd watch those babies in Mid-July struggle down that runw
28 United_Fan: I remember watching UA and Champion 727's trying to climb out of LAS in 105 degree temps!!!
29 Lufthansa: AA777jr, you've got to be kidding me? You haven't heard of a hushkit? Anyway, the things are made by several different companies, but basically work o
30 United_Fan: I'm sure 727's are banned into SNA because of all the NIMBY's there.........thankfully they are definately NOT banned in ROC ! I can't get enough of
31 A320319318: United fan, thank you for posting all the carriers that still do fly the 727. Mexicana operated 727 that had the hush kit, even the TECOLOTE flights t
32 Aa777jr: I never said they were banned at LAX, I said airport officials high discouraged any landing of 727 regardless of the time of day because the noise is
33 StearmanNut: Hushkits essentially do the same thing as high bypass turbofans. It takes the cooler outside air and mixes it around the the outside hot exhaust air a
34 AMS: Also another fact is that 727 climb very slow, especially during hot weather. It takes more time in between take-offs for ATC. EWR was also complainin
35 DC3CV3407ac727: watch us takeoff out of vegas on a 110 degree day, with 173 pax,48,000lbs of gas because of t-storms that need to be dodged enroute, its great fun, a
36 United_Fan: DC3CV3407ac727,MX's 727's were equipped with an afterburner of sorts - JATO - for use in an emergency. I love watching Champion's 72's screaming off
37 Fredadx: I think Falcon Air flies the 727-200 into MIA. I really miss those good old tri-jet days of passenger service, especially the 727. Give me an old Nat
38 Aa777jr: What engines are running on the 727 that make it so noisy? AA777jr
39 DC3CV3407ac727: THE SMOKE AND NOISE GENERATING PW JT8D, lots of speed, lots of decibels,how did Eastern ever get away with calling their 727s Whisperjets?
40 Andrewuber: Sync is correct - we (Kitty Hawk) do operate at least one B-727-200 from FWA-LAX daily. We're currently also operating a leased Express.Net A300 on th
41 RayChuang: Actually, because of the stringent noise emissions rules and the fact that most 727's are getting way up there in airframe life, by default you won't
42 Stpeterc: They are not banned nor can they be. AIP grant assurances do not allow the airport operator to discriminate based on aircraft type. You also cannot ch
43 Bluewave 707: What about Aviacsa's 732s that fly into LAX? Those buggers are just as loud. I saw a Champion 722 @ the Imperial Terminal at the beginning of the mont
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