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YYZ - Gtaa Posts Q3 Loss On Financing Costs  
User currently offlineCanuckpaxguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 2681 times:

http://www.680news.com/news/business/article.jsp?content=b111235A

An interesting piece of news for the Greater Toronto Airport Authority. Despite significantly higher revenues and a decent operating profit of almost CAD$100M (EBITDA), they post a net loss of almost $29M when all is told.

I'm interested to see what they might do to offset their future losses given their financing costs (as well as depreciation and amortization, although not affecting cash) will remain largely fixed moving forward.

They're already the most expensive airport in North America. What are they going to do?

Your thoughts....

G

...and before anyone says it, GTAA does not mean "Go To Another Airport!  Wink/being sarcastic

[Edited 2004-11-13 01:04:42]

8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2658 times:

I think it's more good news than bad. You have to look at the trends. Revenue is up about 40%, and revenue is rising at more than double the rate of operating expenses. This bodes well for future quarters. The GTAA needs revenue growth and it's happening.

The capital costs seem manageable.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2637 times:

"I'm interested to see what they might do to offset their future losses given their financing costs (as well as depreciation and amortization, although not affecting cash) will remain largely fixed moving forward."

Answer to that is easy, they will raise the rents again, continue their pyramid construction programs and ignore the demands of their real customers, the airlines, because in the opinion of the GTAA the airlines are not their customer, the passengers is. It's this kind of bakwards thinking (Thanks Louis) coupled with the fact that they were poorly privitized, and really operate by their own rules...

This is an uncommon newsrelease from the GTAA who usually only talks when things are good, so I suspect that there will soon be an annoucnement that the rents and fees are going up and no one has any say. If this is the case then it is an indication that all though Louis is gone, his mentality is alive and strong in the form of John Kaldeway...



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2624 times:

ignore the demands of their real customers, the airlines, because in the opinion of the GTAA the airlines are not their customer, the passengers is.

The passengers ARE the real customers Slawko. Not the airlines. I can say this as an unbiased observer as I am not an airline employee.

YYZ passengers appreciate the new T1 and laud the current expansion plans. The airlines are merely the conduit, or the middleman -- similar to a supplier to a grocery store.






Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCaptainGomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2582 times:

We've had this discussion before Neil. Sure, the passengers are one group of end-users at the airport, but the GTAA deals directly with the airlines, and other companies doing business at the airport. It is the airlines that are paying the fees at the airports, and the airlines bring in the passengers. Passengers are the airline's customers, and the airlines are the GTAA's customers.

The airlines will likely see another large increase in the cost of doing business and servicing customers at YYZ.



"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2563 times:

New T1 makes the airlines an even more important customer. The common-use building means that the airlines (are forced) to lease everything from office equipment, IT/T networks, computers, phones, right up to the Kiosks themselves. GTAA is providing the airlines with a service in the terminals, and at all of the other facilities on site.

Its like if I had the only parking garage in the city, and you wanted to park your car here, you agree to a lease for a parking space, and I then decide to build three more floors, and add a car wash. The three extra floors are great, state of the art concrete, the carwash is to small for your car, because I never asked you how big your car was, or if you needed a car wash in the first place, but none the less you still have to pay for it all and I’m doubling you're rent. But remember you can't park anywhere else in the city...

That kind of thing wouldn’t fly anywhere else, in any other industry, yet it is permitted, and even encouraged by the likes of the liberals, and transport Canada.

The passenger is a customer of the airport, when they come and park, when they use the toilets in the terminal, or the info kiosks, but they are there for one reason and one reason only, they are getting on an airplane, and if that plane wasn't there, neither would the terminal. At the same time, the GTAA did a poor job of evaluating the needs and operational requirements of airlines that also serve those same customers. Just ask any passenger arriving from and international flight at T1 and connecting to a domestic flight how easy it was to find the re-check, it's air Canada’s fault of course, because if not theirs then who's?

I'm amazed that a capitalist like you Neil, who jumps on even the smallest hint of monopoly with respect to air Canada would support a semi-governmental, overly bureaucratic, monopolistic organization such as the GTAA, and the way they have treated their customer/tenants since Louis took power.

While you're view is from the perspective of someone on the outside, and I respect that, I'm speaking as someone who's seen it on both ends, as biased as I may be. And I know you don’t think very much of the work that I’ve done Neil, but the fact is that I have seen how things work over there, both as an employee of the GTAA, dealing with issues such as the operational shortcomings of New T1, and from the airline side of it dealing with stuff like leasing office space.



"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2555 times:

It is the airlines that are paying the fees at the airports, and the airlines bring in the passengers. Passengers are the airline's customers, and the airlines are the GTAA's customers.

Wrong. Absolutely incorrect perspective. God...you would be crucified in an MBA class Nuno.  Smile

The passengers pay the GTAA fees. It is a flow-thru cost for the airlines -- whether they choose to absorb the cost or pass it on to the customer is up to them.

The airlines do NOT bring in the passengers. The passengers create the demand for the airlines. When an airline goes under, the passengers remain. Hence the airlines are superfluous.

'm amazed that a capitalist like you Neil, who jumps on even the smallest hint of monopoly with respect to air Canada would support a semi-governmental, overly bureaucratic, monopolistic organization such as the GTAA, and the way they have treated their customer/tenants since Louis took power.

Youre right -- I am a capitalist. There is NOTHING monopolistic about the GTAA. You are free to fly from YHM or BUF if you want. We could all bankrupt the GTAA overnight by flying from YHM or BUF. A choice real estate location for an airport is NOT monopolistic.

And I know you don’t think very much of the work that I’ve done Neil, but the fact is that I have seen how things work over there, both as an employee of the GTAA, dealing with issues such as the operational shortcomings of New T1, and from the airline side of it dealing with stuff like leasing office space.


Thats just bureaucracy Slawko. Every industry has it. The airline industry is no exception. If there were 3 competitive airports in the YYZ area, all would have the same operational issues and office leases etc. Thats business Slawko. WHen you get industry experience elsewhere, you will realize that. Also, as a student, you are not involved in the decision making or authority within the GTAA or your airline employer....so no offense, you are a junior employee, and hence an outsider yourself.








Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2541 times:

Maybe you can enlighten this student Neil, at what point does a flow through cost become a cost directly related to the airline? By you're reasoning, as I understand it catering if a flow through cost, as the coast of the food is passed on to the passenger though the purchase of a ticket, same goes for fuel, hell you pay for the airplane and the employees as a passenger too, so really anyone who buys a ticket on Air Canada isn't a customer of the airline, they are a customer of the GTAA, CARA, Consolidated, Boeing, Airbus, Bombardier, etc etc.

The GTAA does provide the passengers with services, YES that we all accept, and as a result they are their customers, but the airlines, retailers, service providers are all also customers of the GTAA, and the GTAA to date shows little interest in even listening to the requests of those customers. The Airlines have said it, IATA has said it, even Collonette himself suggested their may be a problem at one point, yet you Neil seem to know otherwise...guess you're right then ah?

"Also, as a student, you are not involved in the decision making or authority within the GTAA or your airline employer....so no offense, you are a junior employee, and hence an outsider yourself. "

Neil I suggest that you reserve your comments to stuff that you actually know to be factually correct. FACT is yes I was at the GTAA though my education, (it'll take a lot more then that to offend me my friend, I take pride in all my work regardless of the position) no, I didn’t now have authority to make decisions, nor do most regular employees of that company or any other company, that doesn’t mean that I didn’t see how the organization functioned, I witnessed first hand some of the frustration from Air Canada with respect to the way things were being done with New T1. FACT is that none of my previous airline positions (AC, QN, 2T, or SG) including my current one had anything to do with my education, just so happens that I am studying and working full time, I'm not on the front line, nor have I ever been, and I'm involved enough in the decision making process now at my new job to see just how little input the airlines have in the way that their requests, or even suggestions are being met.

Just two bits, for one of us junior low life employees...  Smile
(For the record I enjoy reading your posts, and respect your opinion more then most others, but by now I've probalby triggered you're shit-stiring for entertainment gene so it'll be my last post on the subject unless you actually want to debate facts instead of slander)  Smile Have a good weekend...

[Edited 2004-11-13 06:14:25]


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2507 times:

Maybe you can enlighten this student Neil, at what point does a flow through cost become a cost directly related to the airline?

That's a very easy question. When the airline assumes control of the efficient management of the cost, it moves from being a flow-thru cost (equal to all airlines) to a managed cost. GTAA fees are true flow thru. Fuel is only partially flow-thru. Airlines have some ability to improve the efficient use of fuel with a newer fleet and thru hedging.

but the airlines, retailers, service providers are all also customers of the GTAA, and the GTAA to date shows little interest in even listening to the requests of those customers.

No. The airlines, retailers etc are USERS of the GTAA in providing service to the customer -- the passengers.

I'm involved enough in the decision making process now at my new job to see just how little input the airlines have in the way that their requests, or even suggestions are being met.

I'm sorry Slawko but I disagree. Unless you are a member of mgmt with actual signing authority for expenditures approved by the CFO, you are really not involved in any decision making process. Sorry man. Just stating facts.

by now I've probalby triggered you're shit-stiring for entertainment gene

I will challenge any 21yo student who claims to have decision making authority in ANY corporation, in any industry Slawko.








Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
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