Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 15063 posts, RR: 59 Posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6432 times:
I was checking orbitz for roundtrip flights from SFO-ORD.......it listed a UA 777 from SFO-ORD..and 747 from ORD-SFO..given that both are huge hubs for UA..and a large amount of aircraft available, isn't it a bit of "overkill" to fly a 747 from SFO-ORD?? Would it be because that particular 747 flies somewhere else (i.e. SYD), the yields are that good..or just "overkill".......
Tue, Nov 30 United Airlines 135
Non-stop Chicago, IL (ORD)
San Francisco, CA (SFO)
UnitedFirst From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 478 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6400 times:
Usually when United has its internationally-configured aircraft flying domestically, they're positioning flights. For instance, an international 777 may be arriving at San Francisco from London, turning to Chicago, and then continuing to Frankfurt.
Alternately, the aircraft may simply be doing a domestic run to get it off the ground for a few hours. For example, that 747 may be arriving from Sydney, continuing to Chicago, flying back to San Francisco, and continuing to Hong Kong.
Although sometimes it may not seem like it, United knows what it's doing.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 15063 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6389 times:
Ord747cle...thanks for your input, but that leads me to another question....why posistion it out to ORD in the first place? Why not just keep it for its Pacific runs in the first place? they have enough fleet where they don't need to be needlessly shuffling/shuttling huge aircraft from city to city..wouldnt it be a big waste of jet fuel?
ORDflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6387 times:
I think they are able to fill them because of the high amount of traffic flying between the two hubs, as well as aircraft positioning as you indicated. UA also flies/has flown 747 and 777s on ORD-IAD, DEN, and LAX routes. The only time I have flown a UA 747 was about 2 years ago on ORD-LAX and the flight was completely packed. The aircraft was continuing on to SYD so maybe some pax were on the plane for that flight as well.
N1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 27802 posts, RR: 74
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6355 times:
Yeah, flying those planes, believe it or not, also allows them to compete more effectively against LCCs. With the ultra low seat mile, they can charge low fares and still make some money. They can also sell a full range of fares (F, J, Y+ and Y) as opposed to just 2-3 classes. Also, I bet there are large cargo hauls that will wait for those flights. So, why not sell positioning flights?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Carpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 3018 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6310 times:
Instead of flying two A320 or 757 back-to-back why not fly a 777 or 744. It defintely works out cheaper granted UA has the aircraft available which they do.
For the 1000 morning bank out of ORD, UA collects a ton of passengers from the east-coast to SFO, which some passengers will connect to a flight to Asia.
B6FA4ever From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 820 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6306 times:
the flights are more than likely positioning flights to go from SFO to asia/australia. but also...SFO is UA's gateway to asia...that particular plane may possibly go onto SYD but the 300+ pax may be connecting onto their other trans-pacific flights. so having the huge aircraft holding many people could actually be a good thing.
EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6303 times:
Or it could just be an aircraft headed into or even out of a scheduled maintenance check. Not saying this is the actual aircraft but....UAL has a 747-400 that comes into ORD from Tokyo, it then flys ORD to SFO, then SFO back out again on the Pacific routes until its time to do it all over again. UAL has MX in ORD and SFO, so either base could do the check.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
Baw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2034 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6202 times:
All of you are correct. 1) UAs heavy maintenance (777, 747) is done at the MOC in San Francisco. A lot of aircraft that go in for B and C checks go to San Francisco. I am not certain if they do D checks at SFO anymore, but I do know that all wide body aircraft are rotated through San Francisco. Usually this is put into the mission schedule of the aircraft.
In addition, because the aircraft are rotated into San Francisco, in order to make the aircraft rotation work properly, there may be an occasion that for a period of time, the aircraft is positioned for its overseas missions at SFO or ORD. This entails operating the aircraft between the two airports.
While you may think this is a little nutty, it actually is quite cost efficient. If the aircraft can fulfill its complete mission schedule without a delay or cancellation, then there is NO ferrying of aircraft from anywhere in UAs system to SFO for heavy maintenance. Even though the flights operate as live flights and have light loads, they actually reduce the cost of the repositioning by carrying it live. In the case of AM flights to SFO, the flights can be quite full as they do connect to their entire westbound transpac bank that operates in the early PM from SFO.
The problem UA faces is now that it has dropped MIA-SFO direct, there is one less route that will be able to accommodate a repositioning flight. You will therefore likely only see the -400 on domestic flights between SFO-ORD/IAD. As such, you will probably see the -400 more dedicated to specific flight times on a more regular basis because of the reduction of flying to/from the MOC.
To any of the UA guys, am I missing anything?
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
UA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5987 times:
I would have to say SFO. They have a HUGE maintence facility. LAX I know can't handle a 777 (couldn't service a damaged UA 777 there). I have seen almost every type a/c in and out of there. The Airbus a/c, however, I don't see parked at all over there. Would say ORD for the little guys?
An-225 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 3952 posts, RR: 38
Reply 24, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5205 times:
Don't forget about huge demand for freight and mail between those two cities. Our 744s and 777s have a huge cargo capacity as well as the ability to carry lots of passengers. Once high season hits, you'll see 744s from DEN to ORD, LAX and SFO, and sometimes even IAD. Those planes continue on to international routes.
Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
: With a lot of 777s flying in and out of LAX I think it would be necessary to have a maintnance facility in LAX that would be able to handle the 777. T
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: I dont know which it is to be honest with you but I would bet on it being an international plane. Dont hold me to this but that is my best bet. Or it
: Ok, AAPlatinumflier, like I said earlier, 744s usually go on to Europe from ORD/IAD or to Asia/Sydney out of SFO and LAX. United does not send 744s to
: >I would have to say SFO. They have a HUGE maintence facility. LAX I know can't handle a 777 (couldn't service a damaged UA 777 there). I have seen al
: AN-225, I was saying that the 763 may go on to JFK and where did LAX come from?? UA doesnt even have any 744's at JFK so I dont know where that came f