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UA 747 SFO-ORD Overkill?  
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6012 times:

I was checking orbitz for roundtrip flights from SFO-ORD.......it listed a UA 777 from SFO-ORD..and 747 from ORD-SFO..given that both are huge hubs for UA..and a large amount of aircraft available, isn't it a bit of "overkill" to fly a 747 from SFO-ORD?? Would it be because that particular 747 flies somewhere else (i.e. SYD), the yields are that good..or just "overkill".......

Return
Tue, Nov 30 United Airlines 135
Depart: 10:00am
Arrive: 12:34pm

Non-stop Chicago, IL (ORD)
San Francisco, CA (SFO)

Economy | 4hr 34min | Boeing 747 | View seats



"Up the Irons!"
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOrd747cle From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5988 times:

It was most likely a positioning move for their larger aircraft. The 744's make frequent runs to the Pacific and Australia.

Ord747Cle


User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6324 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5985 times:

Perhaps it is a positioning flight? Perhaps for a SFO - Asia flight? But, they wouldnt have the aircraft on the route unless they had a good reason for it, whatever that reason may be.

User currently offlineUnitedFirst From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 478 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5980 times:

Usually when United has its internationally-configured aircraft flying domestically, they're positioning flights. For instance, an international 777 may be arriving at San Francisco from London, turning to Chicago, and then continuing to Frankfurt.

Alternately, the aircraft may simply be doing a domestic run to get it off the ground for a few hours. For example, that 747 may be arriving from Sydney, continuing to Chicago, flying back to San Francisco, and continuing to Hong Kong.

Although sometimes it may not seem like it, United knows what it's doing.

Derek


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5969 times:

Ord747cle...thanks for your input, but that leads me to another question....why posistion it out to ORD in the first place? Why not just keep it for its Pacific runs in the first place? they have enough fleet where they don't need to be needlessly shuffling/shuttling huge aircraft from city to city..wouldnt it be a big waste of jet fuel?




"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineORDflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5967 times:

I think they are able to fill them because of the high amount of traffic flying between the two hubs, as well as aircraft positioning as you indicated. UA also flies/has flown 747 and 777s on ORD-IAD, DEN, and LAX routes. The only time I have flown a UA 747 was about 2 years ago on ORD-LAX and the flight was completely packed. The aircraft was continuing on to SYD so maybe some pax were on the plane for that flight as well.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5956 times:

sw733 and UnitedFirst..thanks for your inputs..making sense to me now ..well at least a little bit...  Smile




"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5954 times:

Its more costly to leave it sitting on the ground.

N


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5950 times:

THANKS EVERYONE!!!!

 Smile  Smile  Smile



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineLAXINTL From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25370 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5941 times:

UA has successfully used B747s and such large aircraft for inter-hub flying for several years now.

Sometime you can also see 2 narrowbodies operating wingtip to wingtip flights spaced only minutes apart between hubs due to the shear connection demand is so great during certain periods.

Using 1 single widebody can take up the demand and replace such narrow body flying.






From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26493 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5935 times:

Yeah, flying those planes, believe it or not, also allows them to compete more effectively against LCCs. With the ultra low seat mile, they can charge low fares and still make some money. They can also sell a full range of fares (F, J, Y+ and Y) as opposed to just 2-3 classes. Also, I bet there are large cargo hauls that will wait for those flights. So, why not sell positioning flights?


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2954 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5890 times:

Instead of flying two A320 or 757 back-to-back why not fly a 777 or 744. It defintely works out cheaper granted UA has the aircraft available which they do.
For the 1000 morning bank out of ORD, UA collects a ton of passengers from the east-coast to SFO, which some passengers will connect to a flight to Asia.


User currently offlineB6FA4ever From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 816 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5886 times:

the flights are more than likely positioning flights to go from SFO to asia/australia. but also...SFO is UA's gateway to asia...that particular plane may possibly go onto SYD but the 300+ pax may be connecting onto their other trans-pacific flights. so having the huge aircraft holding many people could actually be a good thing.

~B6FA4ever


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5883 times:

Or it could just be an aircraft headed into or even out of a scheduled maintenance check. Not saying this is the actual aircraft but....UAL has a 747-400 that comes into ORD from Tokyo, it then flys ORD to SFO, then SFO back out again on the Pacific routes until its time to do it all over again. UAL has MX in ORD and SFO, so either base could do the check.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineBaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2028 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5782 times:

All of you are correct. 1) UAs heavy maintenance (777, 747) is done at the MOC in San Francisco. A lot of aircraft that go in for B and C checks go to San Francisco. I am not certain if they do D checks at SFO anymore, but I do know that all wide body aircraft are rotated through San Francisco. Usually this is put into the mission schedule of the aircraft.

In addition, because the aircraft are rotated into San Francisco, in order to make the aircraft rotation work properly, there may be an occasion that for a period of time, the aircraft is positioned for its overseas missions at SFO or ORD. This entails operating the aircraft between the two airports.

While you may think this is a little nutty, it actually is quite cost efficient. If the aircraft can fulfill its complete mission schedule without a delay or cancellation, then there is NO ferrying of aircraft from anywhere in UAs system to SFO for heavy maintenance. Even though the flights operate as live flights and have light loads, they actually reduce the cost of the repositioning by carrying it live. In the case of AM flights to SFO, the flights can be quite full as they do connect to their entire westbound transpac bank that operates in the early PM from SFO.

The problem UA faces is now that it has dropped MIA-SFO direct, there is one less route that will be able to accommodate a repositioning flight. You will therefore likely only see the -400 on domestic flights between SFO-ORD/IAD. As such, you will probably see the -400 more dedicated to specific flight times on a more regular basis because of the reduction of flying to/from the MOC.

To any of the UA guys, am I missing anything?

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineOrdpark From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 574 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5690 times:
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UA does 747 'A' checks at ORD...

User currently offlineOrd747cle From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 240 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5590 times:

Where do they do the D checks?

Ord747Cle


User currently offlineUA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5567 times:

I would have to say SFO. They have a HUGE maintence facility. LAX I know can't handle a 777 (couldn't service a damaged UA 777 there). I have seen almost every type a/c in and out of there. The Airbus a/c, however, I don't see parked at all over there. Would say ORD for the little guys?

Thanks again.

UA777222



"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
User currently offlineUA777222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3348 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5504 times:

You will therefore likely only see the -400 on domestic flights between SFO-ORD/IAD.

Actually, on the SFO-IAD UA only operates 2 767-300/ER flights in the morning and the rest are A319/A320's. So if anything a 777 would be a joy! The 777 used to always be on this route.

Thanks again.

UA777222



"It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark."
User currently offlineEIPremier From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5482 times:

There were two daily scheduled 744 flights over the summer on the SFO-ORD route. I flew on the 3PM ORD-SFO flight in August and it was a 744 as scheduled...completely full at that!

User currently offlineSFORunner From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

I would imagine the FAA "imposed" flight reductions at ORD also would force UA to use higher capacity aircraft to make up for reduced frequency.



[Edited 2004-11-13 12:02:20]

User currently offlineUnited_Fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7496 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5272 times:

I flew in a 100% full UA 744 ORD-LAX in July. The plane came into ORD from Japan - had Japanese Duty-free booklets in the seatback. From LAX it may have gone to Narita or SYD or LHR.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineNWAFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1893 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5263 times:

They are also great Cargo flights..UA does well with their 744's between ORD-SFO, DEN-SFO (777's)...they can position cargo well.


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User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5252 times:

Most 'A' checks can be done right at the gate.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineAn-225 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 3950 posts, RR: 40
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4785 times:

Don't forget about huge demand for freight and mail between those two cities. Our 744s and 777s have a huge cargo capacity as well as the ability to carry lots of passengers. Once high season hits, you'll see 744s from DEN to ORD, LAX and SFO, and sometimes even IAD. Those planes continue on to international routes.

Alex.



Money does not bring you happiness. But it's better to cry in your own private limo than on a cold bus stop.
25 AAplatnumflier : With a lot of 777s flying in and out of LAX I think it would be necessary to have a maintnance facility in LAX that would be able to handle the 777. T
26 Planespotting : On my next flight (DFW-DEN-SFO) on the 22nd, i am flying on a 763 from DEN-SFO. It's flight 423, 8:20pm-10:01pm. Anyone know if this is a int'l or a d
27 AAplatnumflier : I dont know which it is to be honest with you but I would bet on it being an international plane. Dont hold me to this but that is my best bet. Or it
28 An-225 : Ok, AAPlatinumflier, like I said earlier, 744s usually go on to Europe from ORD/IAD or to Asia/Sydney out of SFO and LAX. United does not send 744s to
29 N1120a : >I would have to say SFO. They have a HUGE maintence facility. LAX I know can't handle a 777 (couldn't service a damaged UA 777 there). I have seen al
30 AAplatnumflier : AN-225, I was saying that the 763 may go on to JFK and where did LAX come from?? UA doesnt even have any 744's at JFK so I dont know where that came f
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