Rumorboy From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 351 posts, RR: 1 Posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6003 times:
Union President Calls for Nationwide Strike
Tuesday November 16, 10:01 am ET
Flight Attendants Say 'No' to Unrelenting Concessions
PITTSBURGH, Nov. 16 /PRNewswire/ -- Patricia Friend, president of the Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, today called on the union's Board of Directors to authorize a nationwide strike against the concerted effort by airline management to wipe out union contracts and deprive employees of their livelihood. AFA represents flight attendants at 26 airlines.
"We will stand up for the profession we have built by taking a stand for flight attendants everywhere, in this country and around the world," Friend declared to board members at the opening of the board's annual meeting, in Pittsburgh. "Airline management needs to understand that there will be serious consequences if they persist in their attacks on our contracts."
Friend noted that through bankruptcy, management has made an end run around the collective bargaining process by threatening liquidation and introducing a third party, the court, with the power to impose a draconian settlement. For example, US Airways last week asked a court to approve its plan to tear up its union contracts, scrap its pension plans and eliminate health coverage for retirees. United Airlines, the nation's second-largest carrier, wants nearly $140 million in concessions from flight attendants, on top of the $314 million annually it has already extracted from the flight attendant work group. United also seeks hundreds of millions more by attempting to terminate its pension plans. Seven carriers with AFA representation are currently in bankruptcy, and others are on the brink.
"Our entire industry is in turmoil and the careers of our flight attendants all hang in the balance," Friend said. "Pensions, for which flight attendants have dedicated many years of hard work, are being wiped out with the sound of a judge's gavel. Health care coverage for employees in an essentially unhealthy work environment is reaching cost levels unaffordable to flight attendants who every year sacrifice more of their income to 'save their airline.' Almost everywhere we look, flight attendants are being forced to work longer hours with reduced rest time, and all for ever-decreasing wages. This must stop"
The AFA Board of Directors is expected to act on a resolution authorizing a strike later today.
More than 46,000 flight attendants join together to form AFA, the world's largest flight attendant union. AFA is part of the 700,000 member strong Communications Workers of America, AFL-CIO. Visit us at http://www.afanet.org.
Source: Association of Flight Attendants-CWA, AFL-CIO
Braniff727 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 686 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5899 times:
Is it just me or is this starting to look a lot like Eastern Airlines?
I understand that the groups are not happy about the state of the industry, but this to me seems completely foolish on their part. If they do in fact strike, they would cripple the two airlines in the worst financial state.
They are either really foolish, or really smart hoping their respective companies shut down and they, some of them, get picked up by another, more financially sound airline.
Avek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4092 posts, RR: 18 Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5895 times:
Why the hell would ANY airline employee support this move? Don't you realize that if there was an industrywide strike the legal backlash would be severe - I cringe at the thought of what a GOP President & Congress would do to American labor laws in the aftermath of such a job action.
Besides, striking AFA members only translate to more flying business for non-AFA represented FAs (e.g., DL/CO/NW/AA), as the AFA carriers go bankrupt or liquidate in short order.
Sfo777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 19 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5873 times:
Sounds like what all of us pax was hoping wouldn't happen - that UAL is shut down by the flight attendants. Are the work changes the legacy airlines requesting really that onerous? Will they be working harder than Southwest F/As?
Miamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5859 times:
This is a page from the Frank Lorenzo playbook. But in this case, to strike now, would be suicidal. My opinion is that the chiefs and the indians have to make nice. The days of a CEO making 10M while the operation is in the crapper have to be gone. Just like the unions protecting the lazy and inept from being fired; there is no place for this in this day and age.
Ordinduaflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 123 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5738 times:
It's not as if the FAs (or other airline employees) don't have my sympathy with respect to the givebacks, etc that are being asked of them. BUT, the thought of going on strike against an airline, particularly one in a difficult financial situation such as UA, US, etc is about as smart as throwing the baby out with the bathwater. As mentioned above ref: Eastern...a strike would be the last nail in the coffin. Does the AFA think there are enough jobs within the industry that they'll be able to easily pick up and start flying with another airline should their current employer go under? Hopefully this is just posturing on the part of AFA management and the union membership is not in support of such an action.
Cory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 6 Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5631 times:
I don't think that it is fair to ask all the F/A's nationwide represented by the AFA to go on strike. CO hasn't asked for any wage givebacks from any of its employees, so why should CO F/A's go on strike? Nothing bad has been done to them.
Contrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1818 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5546 times:
This is the most nauseating example of gross stupidity I have ever heard of. I sincerely hope that this union president is the only moron supporting this insane idea. Surely nobody in their right mind would vote for it.
If such a strike happens several airlines will go out of business for good. A few hundred thousand people will be without work, and very few of them will ever work in the airline industry again because the jobs won't be there any more. A lot of these people will be looking at long term unemployment because the economy will be back in a recession. And then there's the extreme inconvenience it would cause the traveling public, something I seriously doubt the union has even thought about.
I have an idea: why don't we all send an e-mail to the union telling them what a stupid idea this is. Their address is: email@example.com. I'm going to.
Sfo777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 19 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5529 times:
I think that the UAL F/As deliver outstanding service and know I could count on them in an emergency - I'm sorry to see them choosing to do this.
I agree with Boeing757/767. The plain fact is that the airline industry has changed dramatically and those who are choosing not to change should find other jobs instead of dragging down the company, their fellow workers, and the millions of passengers who have faithfully supported their respective companies through buying tickets and putting up with a fairly huge decline in service due to cutbacks. I do think there are enough passengers in the US who might pay a little more for service but they don't want to pay much more and there is going to need to be a redefinition of what everyone does around flying folks from point a to b.
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3220 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5434 times:
It's really a shame that the union does such a disservice to their dues paying members by putting out a possibility that could not possibly happen.
Each airline labor contract is governed by the Railway Labor Act. The rules regarding strikes under the RLA are very specific, and there are many steps that must be followed before the company can impose new work rules/or the union can strike. That's why airline industry labor negotiations tend to drag on for YEARS, because it is so hard to get to the "self-help" point.
IMO, the AFA showed their total ignorance of the basic tenants of business. If I'm not mistaken, didn't the AFA recently become part of the CWA? Their business acumen must not be too good at all.
Maybe the AFA should consider lowering their dues, in order to empathize with their rank and file. But I doubt that'll happen. After all, the union leaders have their lifestyle to maintain, right?
French style "national strikes" don't work in France, and thankfully, can't happen here!
Rumorboy From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 351 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5385 times:
"French style "national strikes" don't work in France, and thankfully, can't happen here! "
Actually other unions have a right to do a sympathy strike with the AFA. For example Easterns IAM went on strike and ALPA sympathized with the union and also went on strike. The rest is history. If ALPA wanted they can also do a sympathy strike(I doubt it). This is very ugly for everybody.
OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4680 posts, RR: 23 Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5344 times:
I hope they don't but the next 4 years very well could be organized labor's last stand. As a union member in a state soon to be controlled by a GOP legislature and Governor (Matt Blunt-Missouri) I understand the frustration.
Blunt's goal is to make Missouri a right-to-work state which will in effect render my union toothless. I am neither gung-ho union nor gung-ho company. I do however that I should be able to support myself with one full-time job. After the union sold me down the river earlier this year (no raise for 2-3 years but free insurance, in other words I get squat while people with umpteen kids get free health coverage) I'll be the first to resign from the union when the state does go right-to-work. It would not be in my best interest to shut my company down but if they suddenly told me I'ld be making 20% less I'ld be in dire straits. I have been looking for another job for 3 YEARS, but to start at the bottom again would be the same as taking that 20% cut.
It's easy to say FIND ANOTHER JOB, that's hard enough these days but what if you need to find ANOTHER TWO JOBS just to break even? Both sides need to sit their asses down and work for the benefit of the company instead of seeing whose got the biggest d*ck and screwing everyone in the process.
If there's a middle class left in 4 years it won't be because of level headed people like myself, it will be because militant unions and self serving greedy management can't see the big picture.
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3220 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5305 times:
AFA doesn't have the right to call a general strike across all AFA represented carriers. It would be a one by one process.
Yes, sympathy strikes are allowed, but again, on a case by case basis. It has more to do with language in most contracts that allow labor groups to honor other labor groups picket lines.
Don't forget, AA pilots staged what turned out to be an illegal strike when they protested the purchase of Reno Air. AA sued the union and won a huge judgement. AA had the compnay over a barrel, I think the damages award was somewhere in the area of $40 million. Do you think the AFA would risk that?
Ltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12330 posts, RR: 12 Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5282 times:
It is unfortunate that this union is calling for a 'nationwide strike', but I understand their anger and frustration leading to this call.
How many of you would like to go to work one day and be told your salary is being cut 25, 30, 40%, your going to lose your pension, you may be laid-off, your going to have to pay more into your health care insurance, you will be required to work 10 more hours a week without overtime pay and only get 4 hours sleep between work shifts oh, and have you deal with surly customers...and so on. I agree though that the unions here maybe leading their members and some of the airlines on a death march.
I would also note that unlike 25 years ago, being an f/a is a long term career now, not just someplace for a single woman to work at for a few years before getting married. Maybe the airlines want to turn back the clock to the 1960's where all f/a's were female, never with the company long enough to qualify for a pension, when housing and general living costs were a lot lower, the turnover was a lot higher meaning less time at a company so pay could be lower, where they could fire you if you put on 5 extra pounds or became pregent. I don't know of any former f/a's whom are involved with higher management with any USA based airline. I also know that f/a's are required by law and business necessity to have on all flights to serve and if needed to save passangers in a crash or incidnet and 100's of them have died on the job, including over 12 on 9/11. And you wonder why they want to strike....
Rumorboy From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 351 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5239 times:
"Don't forget, AA pilots staged what turned out to be an illegal strike when they protested the purchase of Reno Air. AA sued the union and won a huge judgement. AA had the compnay over a barrel, I think the damages award was somewhere in the area of $40 million. Do you think the AFA would risk that?"
That was considered a illegal sick out. Not a strike. The money owed in that case was given back during the last concession package by the pilots. It almost bankrupt the union(APA).
7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3586 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5235 times:
A nationwide strike is just plain stupidity...whoever came up with that idea should have his/her ass kicked real good. As mentioned in a previous post, airlines such as CO has not done anything to warrant a strike. I think if it happens then let it happen at the specific airlines (UA, US, etc.). These people need to realize that if their wages are not cut, then they will not have wages at all because the airline will go under. I feel sorry for the innocent children of these workers who are going to feel the brunt of any action.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
Qqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2198 posts, RR: 14 Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5125 times:
It surprises me that so many on here, who obviously don't work in the airline industry, have such a strong opinion. I am neither suggesting the nationwide strike is a good idea or bad, but unless you're in the industry and a union member, I really don't think you're qualified to comment.
I also find it interesting how unions are under constant attack on this forum. People, if you're really interested in the airline industry, you're going to have to accept the fact that unions are a large part of it. Very few airline employees are not represented. As Miamiair said above, we need to focus more attention on the management of the airlines, their grossly inflated salaries and benefits and their golden parachutes for when they leave or fold the company.
It floors me that the majority of the A.nutters are pro company and not pro-employee, especially since you'll find very few management members on this forum. But then again, we all like to be armchair CEOs.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
25 TOLtommy: QQ - Unions may be a large part, but what purpose do they serve today? Interestingly, the most unionized carrier in the country is Southwest, which is
26 Clipperaurora: Boeing757/767 hit the nail on the head.....GO FIND ANOTHER JOB Why hurt the whole company and those that value their job, these freakin people are idi
27 BlatantEcho: I'm not pro union by any stretch, but I'm all for this. It'll kill off at least a few airlines, and the industry can consolidate and "start over" The
28 Qqflyboy: TOLtommy... you've made a good point. Let's look at Southwest. Before I start, let me say this: I am not bashing AA, I don't dislike my job and no I a
29 Blueairbureau: This is a real tough choice. Support the union and possibly cripple my airline or continue working at my profitable airline. Although I understand my
30 AirT85: Please forgive me of my arrogance if I show any. I am only 19 years old and was barely old enough to comprehend Eastern Airlines shutting-down and nev
31 ASTROJET707: Back in 200 I was caught in the bullshit at UA as the pilots were flying by the rules of their contract to the letter of the law. I had flights cancel
32 STLGph: Tony -- I believe everyone shares your sentiments. But some people just truly -are- stupid and only think about problems with problems, not solutions.
33 Chgoflyer: Move over John Lewis! Stand forward Patrica Friend who in my opinoin sounds like a real AFL-CIO commie. I hope they all strike so that they can be rep
34 Frontiers4ever: If they strike they might as well start looking for a new job. They will fold and fold faster then a poker play with horrible cards. -Frontiers4ever
35 FriendlySkies: Wait. Doesn't the bankruptcy court have to approve a strike for airlines in Chap. 11? I don't think a judge overseeing UA, HA, or TZ would approve the
36 Baw716: Patricia Friend needs a reality check. What she doesn't get is the fact that there are NO alternatives but to cut costs in this current environment. I
37 JEFFLAS: I am all for this. The De-Regulation of the airline industry has been a total DISASTER.
38 Gnomon: With respect to the poster above who wrote of his irritation that A.net users are "pro-company" and "pro-management:" No one here is necessarily "pro-
39 Flyabunch: Unfortunately airline management does not have an exclusive on stupidity. Both airline management and union management need to get over this crap if t
40 Ual777contrail: It is time to break the unions. F/A's will not break UAL, they aren't that smart to do so. They will find their lives in the air were better than work