Fiedman From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 187 posts, RR: 1 Posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8621 times:
With the addition of the new Embraer and Bombardier jets into the fleet Air Canada CEO Robert Milton says that there will be new non stop flights out of Calgary to new US cities.
Behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4483 posts, RR: 43 Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8332 times:
YYC is a major OIL CITY with high yield paying oil executives flying in and out of it plus Alberta state is known worldwide for its beef and farming/agriculture.
A YYC-DFW or YYC-IAH route is only natural linking two major OIL STATES-CITIES + YYC-NYC (preferably EWR).
YYC-California will definitely be a UAL-AC codeshare as LAX and SFO are big UAL hubs and AC can feed UAL flights out of either hub with this flight.
Why YYC-BOS??? Whats the potential and sort of demand on this route?
All in all I see also a way in which they want to aggressively compete with West Jet on YYC-USA routes and hope to sway pax to their side and hope for WJ to reduce frequencies or pull out of some YYC-USA nonstop routes.
Cofaninbos From United States of America, joined May 2004, 287 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8307 times:
AC already flies non-stop twice daily between IAH and YYC with 319s. CO also operates two daily flights on the same route, changing seasonally between 73Gs and 735s.
I hope this doesn't mean IAH will downgrade to regional jets from YYC. We already saw that happen with our Toronto flights (went from 2 319s to 3 CRJs)
VonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4621 posts, RR: 40 Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8233 times:
Behramjee:
AC already has direct flights from YYC-IAH, YYC-LAX, YYC-SFO and these are not codeshare flights with UA. Did you think we didn't have any transborder service or something?
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21290 posts, RR: 19 Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8199 times:
I wonder if AC might add some service to ORD. UA and AC seem comfortable with both serving a route (see recent UA/ZW anncouncement of ORD-YOW), and ORD is certainly an important O&D market and connecting point.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6636 posts, RR: 19 Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8195 times:
Okay.. the article says Texas (probably DFW or AUS), California (SAN, OAK, and/or SJC) and East Coast Cities (NYC, PHL, BOS, BWI, BNA, ATL, RDU, or CLT) are the likely choices. Any other suggestions? And remember they said they are looking for the 0-4.5 hour range... (MIA, FLL are at the 5 hour range)
SHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3661 posts, RR: 18 Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 8184 times:
Is YYC-LGA inside the perimeter? If not, any chance of a daily flight from JFK, in addition to the daily A-319 from JFK-YVR?
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31155 posts, RR: 76 Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8069 times:
Okay.. the article says Texas (probably DFW or AUS), California (SAN, OAK, and/or SJC) and East Coast Cities (NYC, PHL, BOS, BWI, BNA, ATL, RDU, or CLT) are the likely choices. Any other suggestions? And remember they said they are looking for the 0-4.5 hour range... (MIA, FLL are at the 5 hour range)
What the article, published by a little too optimistic local media, says doesn't matter what.
DFW? No. They can't even fill mainline on DFW-YYZ, so they use RJs.
SAN? OAK? SJC? No. They don't fly to any of those in the first place. SJC-YYC service lasted only a few months when it last operated.
AUS? No. They lasted two months on YYZ-AUS.
NYC? Good idea.
PHL? Unlikely.
BWI? Nope.
BOS? I truly doubt it, even though it was mentioned.
BNA? ATL? RDU? CLT? Ha. Not happening.
MIA or FLL? Much more likely than BNA/ATL/RDU/CLT, but still no. Market already covered, as Westjet flies FLL-YYC year-round.
Katanapilot From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 166 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 8050 times:
more great news from AC. looks like the reconstruction is much more than a livery change and a piss poor sponsorship deal with celine (who DOES like her?!).
embraer is really winning me over with the 170/75/95. some of the slickest planes out their, i'm sure they will be a runaway success.
AirStatDFW From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 364 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 7989 times:
"DFW? No. They can't even fill mainline on DFW-YYZ, so they use RJs"
It didn't say they were adding mainline service either. So it wouldn't matter if they couldn't fill one to YYZ. They could still add service to YYC. I believe UA also flies to YYZ through DEN same aircraft and flt number.
BO__einG From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2760 posts, RR: 20 Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7834 times:
When I first saw the article I was building up excitement in hopes of Air Canada adding new destinations overseas.
After reading it I was honestly somewhat dissapointed and how Milton spoke, he sounded as if this new move to connect more cities in the US was some sort of a revolutionary event for Calgary.
For aircraft type, sure an Embraer machine in Calgary would be a first ever!
I think some cities are quite possible but most seem rather so-so in terms of how successful these routes will be for the city.
Note: YYC overall will be booming in transborder traffic whether it is from this move by AC, or new services from US carriers.
New York City.. JFK, not a chance, LGA-strongest possibility, EWR-maybe.
I think Boston is interesting and I like to see this happen once again.
D.C. National (DCA), it is the capital of the USA and this might be an interesting possibility.
And how about ATL. Connecting YYC to the busiest airport in the world will certainly open a shitload of boarding gates for connecting pax.
STL-Lambert/or Cinncinati would be interesting as they would be the first to fly to central USA.
NOw.. Bring back Hawaii!
Expanding my global domination one spotter at a time..
SHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3661 posts, RR: 18 Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7824 times:
BO einG-You will not see LGA-YYC...YYC is well outside of the LGA perimeter, now that I have checked. Any NYC-metro service from YYC would have to be into EWR or JFK, except on Saturday.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6636 posts, RR: 19 Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7636 times:
Hey MAH4546...
You have laughed at all my suggestions, what do you think? They have to be flying those birds somewhere. And the choices are Texas, California, and East Coast Cities. So which one do you think they will be? I thought of all the likely choices in which they already fly within 4.5 hours.. And as I stated, SoFL is NOT an option because it is out of their flytetime rule... So now that you have laughed off all my suggestions, what are yours?
Accargo From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 610 posts, RR: 8 Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7588 times:
DFW? No. They can't even fill mainline on DFW-YYZ, so they use RJs.YYC is not YYZ, possible due to oil industry
SAN? OAK? SJC? No. They don't fly to any of those in the first place. SJC-YYC service lasted only a few months when it last operated.SAN is possible along with SFO with a "right sized " acft, the 175 would fit that bill.
AUS? No. They lasted two months on YYZ-AUS.Again YYC is not YYZ, and likely to see YYZ-AUS back again with the new acft coming.
NYC? Good idea.Agree, NYC is a huge market
PHL? Unlikely.
BWI? Nope.
BOS? I truly doubt it, even though it was mentioned.
BNA? ATL? RDU? CLT? Ha. Not happening.I don't see a large enough demand for these market from YYC either, but if there is enough connecting traffic available from the west (YVR/YEG/YXE/YQR) it might work.
MIA or FLL? Much more likely than BNA/ATL/RDU/CLT, but still no. Market already covered, as Westjet flies FLL-YYC year-round. MIA and FLL are good bets, especially FLL exactly because WJ flies year-round. WJ doesn't have the cost advantage it used to hold, and AC can be competitive with a 175 and eventually a 190.
It sure is easy to rain on the parade when you don't have to explain why you dumped on each of these routes. You can't compare what happened previously with any routes as the equipment and costs to operate will now be substantially different. The Embraer will be able to operate routes profitably that the Airbus products couldn't. There is another factor that comes into play, we will likely see more direct flying when the Embraer products show up. With the high costs imposed by the GTAA, AC is planning on avoiding routing through YYZ if possible.Western pax that previously connected through YYZ may move through YYC instead. Routes that couldn't sustain a 110 to 140 seat Airbus may work better with a 70-100 seat Embraer. WJ smallest acft will seat 118 (737-600), so routes it cannot operate profitably, might be profitable for AC with a 73 seat Embraer.
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4684 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7455 times:
If AC starts service to AUS or DFW, it better expect a fight from AA. I think AA flies DFW-YYC 3 or 4 times a day, and probably gets a fair amount of traffic connecting from AUS.
Accargo From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 610 posts, RR: 8 Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7379 times:
If AC starts service to AUS or DFW, it better expect a fight from AA. I think AA flies DFW-YYC 3 or 4 times a day, and probably gets a fair amount of traffic connecting from AUS.
The timetable shows AA flies twice daily YYC-DFW using MD-80's. If AC does start YYC-AUS, I think pax would rather go direct than connect through DFW.
Whiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 692 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6926 times:
I don't think Milton nessecarily meant that all these routes will be EMB or RJs. With the new jets coming on line, it will free up some A319/320s to do certain routes e.g. LGA & IAD. Good news for YYC but I would also like to see some more international routes.
25 PlaneGuy27: I would think IAD would be on the short list maybe for summer only. AC runs a YVR-IAD summer daily.
26 MAH4546: You have laughed at all my suggestions, what do you think? New York City, and that's about it. UA/AC already fly from Calgary to LA, San Fran, Phoenix
27 Lt-AWACS: Well as for Texas-Alberta, as noted already Houston-IAH is covered with AC to Calgary, and CO to Calgary and Edmonton. DFW-Calgary has the two AA flig
28 PanAm747: Would love to see AC back in SAN, even if it is with an RJ. I miss seeing the Air Canada A319... Since HP Express is starting SAN-YVR (albeit for a di
29 WJV04: Well im a ramp rat for CO here in Calgary.. And its safe to say that when i come in to work everyday, its pretty much expected that the CO flight will
30 Yyz717: This is nothing more than Milton speculation. It means nothing until routes are announced. Indeed, it's possible that as WJ, SG continue to grow, AC w
31 ERJ170: Anyone think there will be more markets out of Montreal added with the introduction of the E175/190?
32 EuroLeb: How about service between Calgary and Energy rich Alaska (Anchorage)??? Wouldn't this be the only non-stop between the state of Alaska and a major Can
33 MAH4546: Wouldn't this be the only non-stop between the state of Alaska and a major Canadian city? Alaska Airlines and Air Canada both fly YVR-ANC.
34 Dutchjet: Just a bit of ancient history, back in 1975 I flew JFK-Winnipeg-Calagary with AirCanada on a then band-new 727-200...the 20 of us on board were treate
35 STT757: AC flew EWR-Calgary seasonaly for a few years during the '90s, I guess Ski traffic heading to Banff?.. AC has a good number of flights out of EWR alre
36 MEL: Washington has excellent connecting opportunities through United, and it's alliance partners... however, other than a few smaller cities like Charlott
37 Crj 900: During the Jazz roadshow last month, Joe Randell CEO of Jazz told us that the first route the CRJ 705s will operate is YYZ-IAH-YYC-YVR, so yes, I woul
38 Spyderz: While this isn't really a new destination from YYC since Westjet already serves the route, but it is almost certain the Air Canada will resume YYC-YXX
39 Yyz717: I am skeptical about lots of new nonstop service out of Calgary (and Edmonton) to the US cities.....the key cities/hubs already have nonstop service a
40 Accargo: WJ will not sit by and watch AC add alot of new US routes from YYC/YEG anyway. What are they going to do about it? Will they match route for route, fl
41 CanadaEH: Accargo, I'm curious to know how the market will react to the EMB and CRJ's that Air Canada is going to start operating in 2005. There's no doubt that
42 Yyz717: What are they going to do about it? Will they match route for route, flying there 120 seat all Y 737's, against AC's 73 seat Embraer's offering J and
43 Accargo: WJ continues to have lower operating costs than AC hence can be profitable when AC cannot be. WJ also has a much more loyal customer base in YYC than
44 Lymanm: The Elites and SEs out in YYC will appreciate having a cabin in which they can upgrade in, too. Not the case currently on some routes.
45 Yyz717: You have no idea what either WJ or AC's operating costs are at the current time or in the foreseeable future. You make that statement as it is part of
46 CanadaEH: WJ continues to have lower operating costs than AC hence can be profitable when AC cannot be. WJ also has a much more loyal customer base in YYC than
47 Sebring: Take total operating costs of both airlines and divide by ASM. It's public information. Now do the same with yield and and revenues per ASM, and compa
48 Yyz717: Now do the same with yield and and revenues per ASM, and compare the two carriers. It's all public information. Exactly. WJ reported a profit in its l
49 Accargo: Exactly. WJ reported a profit in its latest quarter. AC, a loss. WJ's quarterly profits have shown a steady decline this year. AC's quarterly losses c
50 CanadaEH: Im merely making the point that WJ will not let AC expand considerably at YYC, and where they choose to go head to head, WJ will outlast AC with a low
51 Yyz717: WJ's quarterly profits have shown a steady decline this year. Yet WJ remains profitable. Unlike AC. AC's quarterly losses consisted of large amounts o
52 Yyz717: Lower unit cost isn't a factor anymore. While Air Canada's does remain higher (at least at this point in time), Air Canada has the benefit of internat
53 CanadaEH: I agree partially, but not totally. The overwhelming majority of AC's traffic is O+D in most (if not all) markets. AC's capacity is crowded heavily in
54 Accargo: CanadaEh, thanks for joining in with your perspective. Hopefully some balance can be found in the domestic market, but like you I fear there will be c
55 CanadaEH: In another forum, someone called Westjet the 'meat in the bologna sandwich'. What does that mean, you ask? Air Canada is the bun on the top - the high
56 Lymanm: "Jetsgo has no place to go, you can't go any lower than $1" Don't count all your eggs before they're hatched. Leblanc has nowhere else to turn but to
57 FLYYUL: JetsGo is the better low-fare provider from Toronto. Though WestJet provides better service out West from Toronto, JetsGo still has more flights to Ne
58 CanadaEH: Though WestJet provides better service out West from Toronto, JetsGo still has more flights to New York, Florida, California, Maritimes, Rapidairs tha
59 Yyz717: Air Canada is the bun on the top - the high end traffic, Westjet is the meat, and Jetsgo is the bun on the bottom - the low end traffic. It's not that
60 Accargo: It's not that simple Nor is it as simple as you make it out to be when you state that AC has to have operating costs equal or less than WJ or SG. You
61 Sebring: I bet the yields of all 3 carriers are approaching each other on routes where they compete. Yep, he's wrong. AC's domestic fare structure is significa
62 VonRichtofen: I didn't see many (if any at all) execs on SG here in YYC. SG flies YYC-YYZ which has a lot of business traffic. What I saw were mostly penny pinching
63 Yyz717: Nor is it as simple as you make it out to be when you state that AC has to have operating costs equal or less than WJ or SG. You totally disregards th
64 Accargo: And the problem for AC is that the same undisciplined mgmt and militant unions members that drive up the unit costs, remain in place. This is your la
65 Yyz717: And the problem for AC is that the same undisciplined mgmt and militant unions members that drive up the unit costs, remain in place. This is your las
66 Ktachiya: Yyz717 They can't emerge and go straight back in. I think AC has some strategies or they wouldn't have announced getting new jets and stuff. Yet the o
67 Yyz717: They can't emerge and go straight back in. No, it may take 2 or 3 years, as per US or CO. You are correct. Yet the only thing I just think AC should d
68 ChrisA330: It should be noted that AC's labour costs are still in the process of being reduced and they won't see the full benefit for another year. Employee buy
69 Sebring: Umm. No. The BULK of AC routes are the same as they have been for 30 years -- specifically YYZ-YUL/YOW/LGA/YVR/YYC etc etc. These are the routes that
70 Yyz717: It should be noted that AC's labour costs are still in the process of being reduced and they won't see the full benefit for another year. Employee buy
71 Accargo: This is actually great news. More important than wages almost, I've talked about significant changes within AC and you choose to ignore it, yet know y
72 Yyz717: You obviously don't know what AC has planned to protect yield, AC has dropped from 85% to 50% market share in Canada and has lost its ability to prote
73 Sebring: No, the yield control is not transferring to the low cost carriers. Quite the contrary. They are fragmenting each other's yields. Air Canada's market
74 Yyz717: No, the yield control is not transferring to the low cost carriers. As WJ/SG grow, yes it will. Simply law of economics. The higher the market share,
75 Accargo: And yet both carriers continue to expand strongly into US markets. WJ has expanded strongly into the US this year, as has Canjet and Jetsgo. The route
76 FLYYUL: Guys.... As a frequent participator in these futile debates, I suggest we all put an end to this constant AC bashing tirade.
77 Yyz717: There are a host of transborder routes that may be profitable with a 73 seater that are not profitable using a 120 seater. I agree. But conversely, th
78 Accargo: You need to realize that this is an aviation discussion forum, not an AC-glossing forum. I can understand that as an AC employee you are defensive and
79 Yyz717: Yes, this is an aviation discussion forum, and I am just as free to posts what I wish within the guidelines as you. Correct, but you are new to anet a
80 AC_B777: Neil, I don't think anyone is attacking you personally. However, some of us AC employees feel that you get off on attacking AC, which in my opinion is
81 Yyz717: However, some of us AC employees feel that you get off on attacking AC, which in my opinion is a personal attack against me and my fellow employees. I
82 Srbmod: YYC-ATL on AC will never happen. Hell, ATL-YYZ reverted to Jazz last year, first with a mix of BAe-146s and CRJ-200s, now all CRJs. They also tried YU
83 Yyz717: YYZ-ATL used to be 4 daily AC 320 in the late 90's. NOw 5 daily CRJ. Capacity has hence dropped 50%. DL has gone from 2 daily 757/2 M80 to 2 daily 732
84 Accargo: I simply dont think you 40000 people can pull it together. The facts are that there are no longer 40,000 AC employee's. The number is closer to 28,900
85 AC_B777: Neil, you don't have to know me personally to attack me, or any other AC employee to attack them. When you bash AC, the unions, and employees, then yo
86 Yyz717: I'm not saying you are attacking my personal life, but you are attacking my professional life and the company I work for. Stating facts about your low
87 Fallingeese: I can not be overlooked that higher load factors are thanks to the elimination of Zip, and the retirement of the 747. You can do the math and see just
88 AC_B777: Not to be picky, but many of the routes that have high loads were not flown by the 747. Also, these a/c have only been retired a few weeks, and really
89 Yukimizake: Fallingeese, so AC makes some positive changes, this is a good thing, right? So why only point out that this gives them a chance to put a positive spi
90 Fallingeese: Sure it's great that Air Canada might once again be profitable at some point in the future. Are they there yet....by all means no. The problem is when
91 AC7E7: "Ace Aviation Holdings inc. Releases Third Quarter Results: Reports $243 Million of Operating Income Before Reorganization and Restructuring Items" No
92 DavidYYC: I wish this thread were re-named AC vs Low cost Airline debate, or "lets bash AC". To think that it all started with, ".....new destinations out of YY
93 CanadaEH: All I can say to people is if you don't like Air Canada, get your butts on Westjet. If there should be any negativity towards an airline and its manag
94 Yukimizake: Most topics regarding AC end up this way. This time it took a while, it wasn't until reply #30 that the resident AC hater/WJ lover changed the directi
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