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My Turn: If Reno Air Were Still Around  
User currently offlineS12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 10 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2865 times:

I'm sure this has been discussed in the past a few times, but I havn't seen it before.

What if Reno Air were still around? I seem to remember they had great airfares into RNO and LAS from many west coast airports. I thought they're planes looked awesome, too. Do you think they would have survived 9/11? AA sure canabalized them after the buyout, which as I remember was not a popular choice...

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDelta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1264 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2839 times:

They would be still around even after 9/11 !
They would have a fleet of about 50 MD-80/90 and would fly everywhere in the west and even to Chicago/Atlanta/Detroit/Newark and Orlando!
They would be like the PSA of today!

Thank you American for waisting another airline!




Fly easyJet
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4810 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2814 times:
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I will forever hold a grudge against AA for doing that! I miss Reno Air! And yes, their planes looked awesome in that livery.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineS12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2793 times:

I was quite young when AA distroyed Reno. I was probably 12 or 13 at the time, but I still would have loved to fly them to this day. Hell, they probably would have been my airline of choice to LAS this January....

User currently offlineQQFLYER28 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2770 times:

After seeing this topic, I had to make it my first post Airliners.net. As a former QQ employee in SJC, I really hate how AA destroyed QQ piece by piece replacing the routes with American Eagle whenever they can. Working in operations for Reno Air was one of the best job I ever had, I really miss it. Just my 2 cents.

User currently offlineJeffLAS From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2715 times:


They would be flying Detroit-JFK-Beirut!!!  Nuts  Nuts



" Jazz A-380, you have 2,100 feet from the intersection......Cleared for Take-off"
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2701 times:

That color scheme would have looked great on the new gen. 737s.


I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2678 times:

AA has a habit of making everybody else unhappy... One thing that hurt Reno Air were the GPT Charters they did. If it would not have been for those, there route system would not have been so screwed up and they could have redeployed that aircraft somewhere else.

Thanks to AA for destroying another GREAT airline... I guess AA got jealous that Reno Air was just BETTER... Just like TWA. I'm betting they have their sights set on FL and B6, and every other airline.


User currently offlineDBCooper From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2650 times:

RenoAir was the 2nd West Coast airline AA eliminated. Don't forget AirCal. I used to have a blast commuting SFO-ONT on OC...

User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7545 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2641 times:

They would still be flying into Colorado Springs.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 692 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2638 times:

If Reno Air were still around, we wouldn't have had the AA pilot sick-out in February 1999. We would also have a little less debt at AA post 9-11. We wouldn't have bought routes, gates, and aircraft that we didn't need which were eliminated 2 years later. Another mess created by Don Carty.

User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2627 times:

Reno Air would not still be around had AA not destroyed them.

I loved Reno Air as much as all of you. I flew them several times between ONT-RNO, and enjoyed every flight.

And I bought and read the book, "Wings Of Pride", which is an excellent tribute, history, and pictorial to the airline. If you haven't ordered the book, I highly recommend it. It is an $80 well spent. It sits proudly on my coffee table.

In reading the interviews with all of the officers as well as their numbers, it was pretty clear that QQ was terminally ill. Their route network never really made much sense, having hubs in Reno, San Jose, Las Vegas, and Los Angeles and flying all over the map: Alaska, Atlanta, Gulfport, Las Vegas, etc.

To quote Joe O'Gorman, who dressed up QQ for AA:

"They were in and out of over 20 markets, chasing revenues. They used the MD-80's, which were too big for the market. They were unable to find anything that worked. They abandoned what little niche they had."

He has a point.

So while Reno Air was a good airline, I had it not been for AA, chances are they wouldn't have lasted much past 2000 anyway. Even if they would've made it to 9/11, that would've finished them off, just like Midway, Pro Air, Vanguard, and National.



User currently offlineS12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 1 day ago) and read 2589 times:

Interesting points Matt D, thanks. And thanks all for your input.

It's always sad to see an airline with so much potential either get bought by the bigger fish, or destroy themselves. You'd think someone would talk sense into the board and get them to turn things around, but as we've seen, that isn't always possible.

Thanks for the replies guys!

Matt


User currently offlineEric777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 199 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 4 hours ago) and read 2477 times:

For those who have forgotten QQ's livery or don't know what it looked like, here is one at LAS:



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Photo © Andy Martin - AirTeamImages



User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5673 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2443 times:

And why should QQ have been dressed-up for AA's plunder? Why not scale the operations back to the main (original) hubs of Reno and LAX? Sure the MD-80's were too big for most of the markets, but then again, they could've ordered the 717 or smaller. I miss flying them, and working for them.


Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2438 times:

And why should QQ have been dressed-up for AA's plunder?

For several reasons.

1. A takeover/sellout sure beats a Chap 7 liquidation, which was all but inevitable for Reno Air had AA not come along. THEN where would the QQ folks have gone?

2. That's what the shareholders (read: OWNERS) of Reno Air wanted. (see above #1)

3. The path to success has never been "shrink to profitability". It may buy you some time, but if your basic business plan and fundamentals for success aren't there, then it becomes moot.

4. Order the 717? With what money? If you already acknowledge that the S80's were too big, then there really is no argument.


User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26481 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2408 times:

> If you already acknowledge that the S80's were too big, then there really is no argument.<

If the skiddbuggies were too big, the 717 might have been right sized. That is a valid argument, as the 717 holds around 40-50 fewer passengers.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5673 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2403 times:

I wasn't talking about a complete shrinkage. Do a Continental-style turnaround where you keep your profitable areas, i.e. profitable hubs, and keep the a/c you need to fly those, and order smaller planes, like the 717 wich only holds about 100 or so, hell, even smaller would work. The MD-80 was what, 30-50 seats bigger? (Correct me if I'm wrong) I think Reno and LAX alone wouldve been good for the airline. And about the shareholders, even though I am one in several airlines, you might have to angrily convince them thats the only way to go if they EVER want to see their grubby money back.


Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2395 times:

I think that Mr Gorman summed up Reno's situation perfectly in his interview for "Wings Of Pride" (his words, not mine):

"In 1997, Reno Air suffered a 12 million dollar loss following a barely break-even first three quarters in what was one of the industries strongest years. Reno Air wasn't participating in the industries success"


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2371 times:
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Several people had said the 717's would have been the perfect size for Reno! Just where was the cash to buy these planes going to come from?


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineQQFLYER28 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2351 times:

To be honest the most profitable hub for QQ was SJC. RNO and LAS fares were pretty skinny in regards to overall margin due to all of the casino traffic. By the time AA purchased us Joe Gorman had realigned a lot of the flying to the SJC hub out of RNO and LAS to make it more attractive to AA. In regards to the 717, there was no cash to purchase them at the time. As much as loved the company, I do not think QQ would not have made to now on their own.

User currently offlineN276AASTT From US Virgin Islands, joined Jan 2004, 620 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2275 times:

I personally had never heard of Reno Air before my trip to Reno back in '98. I'm an employee for AA and when I heard of the impending acquistion of QQ, my first thought was WHY? All I saw was an airline out west making a name for itself, doing it's own thing. I know that AA only did it to further eliminate competition and maybe management at QQ could've done things a bit differently, but I think AA should have left Reno Air to it's own fate. Call me optimistic, but maybe, just maybe QQ could have pulled through, we'll unfortunately never know. If they were too far gone to save, then it would've been better to have Reno Air close their doors and bow-out gracefully knowing that they did the best they could. That to me is easier to swallow than being taken over by another comany and dismantled. Now, everybody's last impression of Reno Air is that they succumbed to AA and everything about them has now been lost (i.e. AirCal and now TWA).

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