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UA Flight Attendants Threaten Chaos  
User currently offlineJMV From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 241 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 5 months 21 hours ago) and read 4742 times:

According to an article in ATWOnline.com, UA flight attendants threaten targeted disruptions to service, otherwise known as CHAOS (creating havoc across our system). The intent, according to union leaders, is to prevent management from destroying UA.

"United Airlines has declared war on us in proposed demands in cuts to wages, benefits and work rules. If management stands by these stipulations they will destroy United Airlines. We are not going to let that happen," union leaders stated.

The article states that the targeted walkouts under CHAOS are supposed to "temporarily disrupt operations and annoy passengers while causing a steady erosion of customer support for the airline."

How do you suppose targeted walkouts by flight attendants that are designed to "annoy passengers while causing a steady erosion of customer support for the airline" will prevent the destruction of UA?


http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=4755


Google begins where my brain ends! ©
65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineTonyBurr From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 21 hours ago) and read 4729 times:

They will not get passenger support or empathy. It could be the ruination to UA. Then they will not have an airline ( or jobs) to create CHAOS. Very foolish idea!

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 21 hours ago) and read 4728 times:

Who is destroying who, here!


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 21 hours ago) and read 4722 times:

Well, typical short-sightedness on the part of another airline union. As if this is gong to impress anyone. What it will do is drive more customers away from UA and further hurt that struggling airline.

Foolish move, which could have bad results for UA.


User currently offlineUnitedtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 21 hours ago) and read 4693 times:


Well according to the railway labor act (which governs airline employees) any labor actions which result in unapproved work action (any labor disputes resulting in work action must go through a federal mediator and once that mediator declares an impasse there must be a 30 day cooling off period before any work action can happen) will result in termination of the participating employees. The original CHAOS program was waged by AS FA's and it was done only after their cooling off period. So these are just big words for now. Anyone who is foolish enough to participate can look for a new job!

-m

 Big thumbs up



User currently offlineBENNETT123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7200 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 4620 times:


The Railway Labor Act, seems to be designed to help management. Is this the intention.

First the dispute has to go to the Federal Mediator.

Then the Federal Mediator has reach an impasse.

Then there is an additional 30 day period.

Any management who can not find some way of negating the impact of the strike must be a bit slow.

Am I missing something here.


User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1798 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 4571 times:

The management is destroying UA, eh? It's probably in their best interests to do so, just that way their preferred stock will pay out in real cash when they liquidate. Meanwhile, at the airports, all UA employees get the shaft and a pink-slip while management jump ship with golden parashutes.

GET REAL PEOPLE... MANAGEMENT ALWAYS WINS.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineOrd From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1378 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

Unitedtristar - These don't seem to be just "big words for now." The article says "According to the union, the legally required 30-day cooling-off period before a strike does not apply when a bankruptcy court agrees to reject a contract."

I am a fan of United but the flight attendants are incredibly stupid. I work in an industry where I have clients. If I didn't like the way my company/job was going, I would never take it out on the product and service I provide my clients. I would get another job.


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3505 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

"The intent, according to union leaders, is to prevent management from destroying UA."

What a bad joke! Chaos will save United. Shut down the unions and send their leaders to the doctor.


User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 4474 times:

The intent, according to union leaders, is to prevent management from destroying UA.

I guess that so that the unoin can destroy it instead. I sympathize with the employees of US and UA, but don't the UA FA's remember all the goodwill and support that was generated during the "summer of hell" when the pilots union held their little slowdown?

While it ain't right...the FA's should ask themselves just how badly they can hurt a group of executives who have their nice little golden parachutes nearby and will have a nice softlanding with millions of $$$ in their pockets whilst the rest of the employees can only hope for a soft spot to thud down into when the airline folds.


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6344 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 4462 times:

Flybyguy,

What percentage of the management employees at UA or any airline do you think have "golden parachutes"? What percentage of the mainline pilots have about a million dollars in their 401K and vested pension plan?


User currently offlineJayDavis From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2000 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 19 hours ago) and read 4437 times:

These Union Hooligans are total idiots. I'm sorry, but I think if you are a member of a union, you pretty much become a member of a cult, along with becoming a mindless robot.

Unions served a purpose in the United States during the Industrial Revolution, but unions are what is wrong with so many of the airlines today. They have such idiotic work rules it is hard to understand them, at times.

I hope that unions continue to lose more of their power as time passes on, it certainly seems that way right now............

I'm so glad I live in a Right-to-Work state!


Jay


User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 19 hours ago) and read 4424 times:

Hello! This is what happened in the summer of 2001! People were treated like crap & refused to fly United, they think CHAOS is the answer to all of their problems, get a clue.


NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 19 hours ago) and read 4412 times:

What percentage of the management employees at UA or any airline do you think have "golden parachutes"?

On the other hand....how many "management employees" have real decision making power at UA or any other airline? The target of the union is "upper managment", and most likely each and every member of that group has a golden parachute.


User currently offlineLtbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12878 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 19 hours ago) and read 4372 times:

This threat of 'CHAOS' may push UA to the brink of Ch. 7. While I understand the frustration of the f/a's at UA, to take it out on the passangers would be very foolish. From a lot of people being out sick, to our comming to a peak travel period, to doing miminal services to pax in flight, there could be a backlash upon them and UA. Worse, there is little support from our current Republican controlled government to recognize the serious crises many working people are in today. Perhaps a better way to protest would be to have 'informational pickets' at airport terminals, noting the perdictiment they are in under bankruptcy.

User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3276 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 19 hours ago) and read 4331 times:

"Unitedtristar - These don't seem to be just "big words for now." The article says "According to the union, the legally required 30-day cooling-off period before a strike does not apply when a bankruptcy court agrees to reject a contract."

ORD - That might be true for US and UA. Problem is, the AFA is trying to make it look like there will be a nationwide strike across all AFA repersented airlines. I know AirTran and Mesaba are both AFA carriers as well. The RLA, as spelled out by TriStar applies to those airlines. AirTran is in negotiations but hasn't been released into the 30 day cooling off period, and I don't believe Mesaba FA's are in negotitations at all. So for either of those groups to join in a nationwide strike would be a violation of their contracts, and probably the end of their careers. AFA knows this, but is conveniently ignoring it in order to spin a little propaganda. The union has to be scared to death about the loss of dues paying members at US, UA, and ATA.


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3799 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 19 hours ago) and read 4311 times:

You guys are missing the point... of course this is going to hurt UAL! That's the inention... or at least the spirit of the threat of CHAOS. It is the hope for UAL to get scared and to submit to the unions demands. I'm sure it is not the FAs intent to shut their company down, though some radicals would probably rather the company shut down than work for rediculous pay.

Everyone seems to remember the "summer of hell" that the pilots caused. But nobody seems to remember what they got out of it. THE BEST CONTRACT. Granted, these are different times and the company wasn't in BK. However, the intent is still the same.

No - Mesaba FAs are not in negotiation. YET.


AZJ


User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 18 hours ago) and read 4295 times:

This is all the F/A's have, they are glorified drink servers. Most will lose their jobs for this. If I made a guess, UAL will do away with their contract first, and anybody causing CHAOS will be causing CHAOS in the unemployment line.

Biggest job group at UAL, and the dumbest job group at UAL.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL


User currently offlineGoingboeing From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 18 hours ago) and read 4236 times:

Granted, these are different times and the company wasn't in BK. However, the intent is still the same.

How's that saying go....The path to hell is paved with good intentions...


User currently offlineNWAFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1893 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 18 hours ago) and read 4219 times:

Ual777contrail,

Sad that you have such little respect for Flight Attendants. Lets just hope in an emergency that your NOT at one of our tables!




THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
User currently offlineKITH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 377 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 17 hours ago) and read 4175 times:

I hope flybyguy isnt at the Labor relations school at Cornell! Haha, all kidding aside I would think the UA Managment would make more money saving the compnay and jumping ship when the stock is worth more then pennies. This labor action will anger the pax, "if gramma can't be seen on xmass." It will win them no sympathy, mine included, and I feel its shamefull how little they are paid. That's the game. -Matt in KITH

User currently offlineCofaninbos From United States of America, joined May 2004, 287 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 17 hours ago) and read 4145 times:

I am sorry, but if we didn't have unions, we'd still have child labor, no minimum wage laws (and the one we have SUCKS enough already), no weekends, and generally no say whatsoever on everyday workplace issues. Take a HISTORY class and learn some facts.

This whole anti-union, "right to work" mantra that exists in America is scary. It represents the overall move to the right of center in this country which is simply amazing when you consider that the rich keep getting richer while the rest of us keep getting worse off!

UA has been run into the ground by the management. They are the ones who get paid to make decisions regarding the overall health of the airline and yet, we are supposed to believe that flight attendants, who have seen slashed paychecks, decreased benefits, and changes in their original contracts, will be the ones to blame?


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3276 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 17 hours ago) and read 4118 times:

"It represents the overall move to the right of center in this country which is simply amazing when you consider that the rich keep getting richer while the rest of us keep getting worse off!"

That's simply not true. A rising tide carries all ships. Personal wealth in this country has never been higher. Home ownership is at an all time high. Perhaps you need a history class as well. What we consider "poor" in this country is envied by the rest of the world.

Don't forget, UA went into bankruptcy while owned by the employees. They had a say in the management of the airline. In fact, they controlled it. The FA's chose not to participate in the ESOP, they didn't want to pay for their share of the company through pay cuts. The other union groups took turns raiding the cupboard, and drove the company into the state it is today.

[Edited 2004-11-19 18:30:21]

User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 17 hours ago) and read 4057 times:

Ual777contrail

A Flight Attendant is a little more than a "drink server", & though I do not support this Chaos action, but it is simply unnecessary to belittle Flight Attendant.



NO URLS in signature
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16931 posts, RR: 48
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 16 hours ago) and read 4044 times:

Would you die already??? Honestly. Somebody finish the damn thing off.


E pur si muove -Galileo
25 Airbazar : Hey TOLtommy, get a grip on yourself. If I was poor and had a choice I can think a whole list of other countries I'd rather be, starting with our neig
26 UA744KSFO : Well, regardless of whether it is done by a Union or not, I think the whole idea of CHAOS is a bad one, and will leave many people out of a job. Howev
27 2H4 : UAL 777 CONTRAIL says: This is all the F/A's have, they are glorified drink servers. Biggest job group at UAL, and the dumbest job group at UAL. Hones
28 JoseMEX : >The intent, according to union leaders, is to prevent management from destroying UA.> ...by destroying it themselves first.
29 Mdsh00 : These idiots will only have themselves to blame if UAL goes under after this. This is somewhat reminiscent of the Supermarket strike in Southern Calif
30 Goingboeing : That's simply not true. A rising tide carries all ships. Personal wealth in this country has never been higher. Home ownership is at an all time high.
31 TOLtommy : Airbazar - I don't recall being rude to you, so why are you rude to me? Those benefits you talk about in countries like Canada, Sweden, and Austria ar
32 Goingboeing : Luckily, you live in a country where you are allowed to believe in socialism. I choose not to, as is my right. followed by Go to Africa or Asia, show
33 7E72004 : Let them go ahead and create "chaos." When they drive the public away from United and theairline goes under they will be left without a job...very foo
34 JeffLAS : I wish they would just pull the plug on the whole airline and start over. These threads are as bad or worse than my " Spirit Airlines Bashing" thread
35 Post contains images Aa777jr : A Flight Attendant is a little more than a "drink server", hahaha I was gonna say something, but I think UA777Contrail said it already.
36 2H4 : A Flight Attendant is a little more than a "drink server" That's like saying EMTs are nothing more than chauffeurs, whose job is simply to drive peopl
37 Post contains links MidnightMike : Flight Attendants at American Support AFA Struggle WASHINGTON, Nov. 19 /PRNewswire/ -- The union representing more than 25,000 flight attendants at Am
38 7E72004 : The CHAOS will just drive passengers to the other airlines...the flight attendants would just be shooting themselves in the back.
39 ANCFlyer : "A Flight Attendant is a little more than a "drink server" Bad call pal . . . I don't support the idea of CHAOS, neither do I support people who think
40 7E72004 : Oh well...that means more business for airlines like Southwest, AirTran, and even some other majors.
41 Post contains images Mdsh00 : The Union Leaders (Masters) will tell their members (robots) what to do and off they will go, blindly into the night . . . . . Of course! Why should t
42 BENNETT123 : Is it true that SouthWest are unionised.
43 BR715-A1-30 : I disagree with Unions... I DO Agree with treating employees right... If an employee did not trust me enough to treat them right to the best of my abi
44 DIA : At one point in America's history, unions were necessary and fair to the employers. . .that started with the Hoover Dam. Now, some unions seem to have
45 BENNETT123 : Several people have referred to "Right to Work", what does this mean.
46 NYCAAer : I think CHAOS is a bad judgment call for UAL F/As right now, although what the company is propsing to impose upon them is rough. Duty days will be len
47 Isitsafenow : This is an open note for UA F/A's and any other that my have tricks up their sleeve. I am suppose to go to PHX in mid Feb with 8 other people from aro
48 Socrates17 : Hi Bennett Nobody seems to have replied publicly yet, so I will. Used to be, that Union contracts with their employers could enforce that all employee
49 Ual777contrail : UAL 777 CONTRAIL says: This is all the F/A's have, they are glorified drink servers. Biggest job group at UAL, and the dumbest job group at UAL. Hones
50 Luv2fly : BENNETT123 Yes almost all work groups at WN are unionized.
51 Cofaninbos : I have taken plenty of history classes (BA in history from Colgate U). Poverty in America is REAL. I am not talking about people that can only afford
52 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I have no problems with F/A showing their disappointment with a particular situation, that is their right but this should be done IN THEIR OWN SPARE T
53 1011 : I just one thing to add here, Remember Eastern Airlines!
54 Bluewave 707 : From a management perspective ... The powers that be @ UA would tell the FAs go ahead & do it. Only, don't plan on coming back. From a pax paerpsectiv
55 UALPHLCS : I don't think the individual flight attendentsare dumb. Far from it. I would agree with 777contrails statement if he reworded it to "the AFA is the du
56 Post contains images FriendlySkies : So let me get this straight. The F/As are going to destroy UA in an effort to prevent management from destroying UA?
57 ANCFlyer : Nope, FriendlySkies, I believe the jist of it all is that CHAOS will allow the F/As to assist Management in destroying UA . . . I feel for the F/As (a
58 Jc2354 : Actually, in a CHAOS situation, flight disruptions and passenger inconvenience are kept to a minimum. It is the "threat" or possibility of such action
59 FriendlySkies : OH! Ok, so it's a repeat of the Summer of 2000? But this time the F/As are causing the "chaos" lol. God help this poor airline and it's (nonexistant)
60 Atcrick : My biggest problem with this forum is that all it is accomplishing is creating animosity amongst almost everybody who posts their opinion. Everybody i
61 UALPHLCS : Friendlyskies, Depite what the AFA will tell people, you are essentially correct. In an effort to keep the management from "destroying" UA, they are g
62 Tgocean : So, let me see if I understand this correctly. I'm a high-mileage business-class passenger on UA. I have two trips coming up (and paid for), and two m
63 Post contains images 2H4 : UAL 777 CONTRAIL You are CREW? You have displayed your intelligence level. Check my profile, I have been with this forum since 02' SO how could I hav
64 Ual777contrail : 2H4, Everybody reacts differently, I will be blunt and point out faults. I would expect nothing less from anybody towards me. I have been in this indu
65 Scotron11 : Hopefully calmer heads will prevail here. I can understand the frustration everyone must feel and certainly, management must shoulder that responsibil
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