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Iran, Embargo, Iran Air, MD-90s  
User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4512 posts, RR: 53
Posted (9 years 10 months 17 hours ago) and read 3563 times:

Was looking through the B9 MD-90 post and got to thinking that it is a grave human factors situation that Iran cannot buy new passenger planes with X% US made parts, where I cannot remember what X is.

What exactly are the conditions of the embargo and how do other ppl feel about this?


PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26484 posts, RR: 75
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 16 hours ago) and read 3530 times:

The rule is that no US company can invest over 40 million dollars per year in Iran, or derive that much in revenue for sales to Iran. If you add up how much jet engines cost, or even US componants in almost any non-Russian jet, you get to that total very, very quickly. That is why Iran got so close to buying RR powered airbus planes and failed. The only new planes they have been able to buy have been Russian, or allowed because of the US shooting down an 290 innocents on an Iranair flight.

I think that the embargo on Iran is a waste and should be lifted, then the government there will have nothing to point at and will fall quickly.
BTW, the Iranian government has stated their preference for purchasing Boeing aircraft, if given a choice, probably due to their success with keeping the ones they have in the air. (not A v. B, but what they said).



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineYhmfan From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 607 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 16 hours ago) and read 3528 times:

I see the logic in an embargo on military aircraft but civilian aircraft is a different story.
The only people that are harmed are the civilians who have to fly old and, probably, unsafe aircraft.



If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 16 hours ago) and read 3498 times:

I see the logic in an embargo on military aircraft but civilian aircraft is a different story.


I disagree. In a totalitarian state such as Iran, all civilian aircraft are effectively under the control of the govt and can in theory be used to transport troops and support the military.






Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26484 posts, RR: 75
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 16 hours ago) and read 3486 times:

>The only people that are harmed are the civilians who have to fly old and, probably, unsafe aircraft.<

While newer planes would be nice, Iranair has done an amazing job at keeping their old planes in very good shape. The actually have the facilities to overhaul any Boeing plane completely in Tehran. It is pretty crazy.
They still have 707s, 721s, 741s 747SPs, etc. that are in great shape and going strong. They are the NW of the middle east  Big thumbs up

>I disagree. In a totalitarian state such as Iran, all civilian aircraft are effectively under the control of the govt and can in theory be used to transport troops and support the military<

Iran is a democratic republic, and with few exceptions, really does adhere to that. There are things that the Iranian clergy do that arenot right, but generally, life in Iran is governed by a civil law code similar to in europe (except the UK with Common Law) and the government controlled by a democraticly elected parliament.
Also, the government of the US, can and does use civilian aircraft to transport troops and support the military, and effectively controls all airplanes in the US through the national registration database



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 11 hours ago) and read 3401 times:

Iran is a democratic republic, and with few exceptions, really does adhere to that. There are things that the Iranian clergy do that arenot right, but generally, life in Iran is governed by a civil law code similar to in europe (except the UK with Common Law) and the government controlled by a democraticly elected parliament.
BS. While Iran may hold elections on a regular basis, unelected clergy that are not accountable to elected officials or the public limit the extent to which those elections are democratic. The clergy can eliminate large numbers of candidates from contention in elections on political or other arbritary grounds. The clergy control the judiciary, the intelligence and law enforcement agencies, and miltary and use that power to stifle poltical dissent and control the lives of people and to enrich themselves and their families. The parliament has passed some reforms, but either their reforms never go as far as the electorate desires or the clergy prevents them from carrying out the reforms. The result increasingly seems to be that the public is giving up on elections. Many student groups, having been disappointed by the reformers they elected, want the public to register their disgust by not voting and lowering turnout. As long as the unelected clergy maintains control of the armed forces and courts, there will never be anything approaching democratic governance as we know it in the west.

By the way, as far as I know Europe isn't governed by sharia.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 11 hours ago) and read 3381 times:

I think that the embargo on Iran is a waste and should be lifted, then the government there will have nothing to point at and will fall quickly.

Uh, Iran has a pro-American public that obviously isn't offended by the embargo, but that doesn't really matter since the powers that be in Iran really don't care what the public thinks. Do you really think the embargo is what the government points at to justify its existance and its anti-American stance? Ever heard of "westoxification"?



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 10 hours ago) and read 3356 times:

I think it´s up to every country to decide which country they want to sell things to, if Iran refuse to sell oil to USofA, fine their decision...


User currently offlineB727fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 7 hours ago) and read 3275 times:

Iran is NOT a democratic republic! It is ruled by an absolute theocratic dictatorship. The govnt. of Iran by any means is NOT a representative of its people. Mass of Iranians are wonderful, genuine and pro-democracy. Unfortunately, their hands are tied by the ruling clergy. Now as for the embargos, the real victims here again are the people of Iran. If Iran was a true democratic country today, I bet among other things, it would also have one the worlds best airlines. Lets not forget, before there was EK (the best airline flying out of the M.E.) IR (pre-revolutionary era) was a modern and glorious airliner. If things were different, we would see 744 & 777s flying into place like LAX, SFO, JFK (they had JFK services) and perhaps other cities in the US and many other parts of the world. Due to the current political situation, and the fact that Iran is now under watch due to its nuclear advances, I can see a chance of easing economic sanctions as a trade off. That means that maybe IR will be able to buy newer B's & A's. I certainly hope to see that millions of the wonderful people of Iran will truly be free someday. It is a great country with tremendous potentials.

User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4512 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 3188 times:

i can see the point of the embargo and especially the comment which was made that civilian aircraft could be used to support the military...

by that logic i suppose its quite unlikely that the embargo will be lifted or that they will be allowed to buy from Boeing.

I still think they should be allowed to by from airbus, regardless of US components of Airbus planes. Unlikely though.

Imagine how great an A340 or an A380....even a 777 would look in IR colour scheme.

I suppose the only benefit to this is that we will still have the chance to fly on 741s and 742s and 747SPs on a reputable airline for a good while.



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 3180 times:

Iran is a democratic republic, and with few exceptions, really does adhere to that.

Iran is a theocratic republic, where the democratic leaders are still under the absolute power of the clergy.

Its actually what the Iraqi people want, too, but we're preventing that from happening.

I expect that in 20 years, the US will be more of a Christian republic than a federalist one.

N

[Edited 2004-11-21 20:22:58]

User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 3157 times:

Iran is a theocratic republic, where the democratic leaders are still under the absolute power of the clergy.

Its actually what the Iraqi people want, too, but we're preventing that from happening.


I don't think that is the case because the religious Shi'a are mostly accepting of what the senior leadership in Najaf wants, which is while they want the republic to be based on Islamic law they do not want absolute power for clerics as is done in Iran. It is a fundamental theological conflict between the senior clergy in Najaf and those who think like Khomeini.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineYhmfan From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 607 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3009 times:

In a totalitarian state such as Iran, all civilian aircraft are effectively under the control of the govt and can in theory be used to transport troops and support the military.
You are correct that, in theory, civilian aircraft can be used for military purposes. The same applies to just about everything else:
Food can be used to feed the troops
Medical supplies can be used to treat soldiers
Educational tools can be used to disseminate the regime's message.
Are we to completely cut off the civilian of a country because a regime that is not their choice is ruling their country?

PS Strange as it sounds, I am going to click on the suggest deletion button after i have posted this and suggest moving this to non-av!!!!



If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you
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