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Pan Am And Communist Airlines At JFK?  
User currently offlineFogCreekCEO From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 23 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6294 times:

In the 1970s and 1980s, why did all the airlines of communist countries fly out of the Pan Am terminal at JFK (as opposed to terminal 4 with all the other international airlines?)

And why was Pan Am the only American airline flying to communist countries?

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5700 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6134 times:

It was probably due to Pan Am's longstanding rule as the "Chosen Instrument" for the US government.


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User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6093 times:

Before deregulation, there were really only two global U.S. airlines - Pan Am and TWA. Other airlines, such as Braniff and Eastern, had extensive and pioneering route networks in Central & South America and the Caribbean, but the blue globe and the double yellow globes were always considered THE international airlines. And their reputations were legendary...

In the eyes of the U.S. government (that did NOT provide a state-run national carrier such as Air Canada or Air France, etc), Pan Am and TWA were symbols of American influence all over the world. Much like the internet now, these airlines functioned to connect America to the world. So, when it came time to award routes to eastern Europe during the communist era, pictures of Uncle Sam on a Boeing or McDonnell Douglas jet itself could not have been more a symbol of American technology, progress, and bravada more than those airlines. They were our good-will ambassadors to the world. In return, when Eastern European airlines needed our assistance, who would they be most familiar with?

I miss these proud birds in our skies...now I'm getting verklemmt...talk amongst yourselves... Big grin



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineAA B777-200 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2001, 505 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5979 times:

I agree PanAm747, at one point PanAm was THE face of America.

Since I'm Dutch I sometimes have the same feeling with KLM. Whenever I'm at some remote place in the world where the bluebird picks me up, it is then that I already feel home!

Too bad TWA and PanAm left us oh so quickly!


User currently offlineHz747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1689 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5915 times:
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PanAm and TWA were also the only American airlines that flew into the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. With the addition of the 747-SP, and then the 747-300, Saudia would use the PanAm terminal as well. In the early years of Saudia (now Saudia Arabian), TWA did a lot of work for the Saudi airline via contracts before abruptly pulling out of the Kingdom. I remember it well, as my mom and dad were terminated before being hired by Saudia directly.

I agree, at the time, it seemed that TWA with its two globes, and PanAm with its one globe, were the face of the US abroad. I'm not quite sure I would call PanAm an instrument of the US government though.



Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8142 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5906 times:

Hz, that was actually the exact phrase used by Pan Am and it's friends in the US gov't: Pan Am was indeed the "chosen instrument".


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5790 times:

Having been there during that time frame, Pan Am's name was second only to Coca Cola in name recognition around the world. We were the ground handlers at JFK for LOT Polish, Aeroflot, CSA Czech Air, Tarom Romania as well as Saudia. These were all reciprocal agreements as these countries handled our flights also.

Ed



Ed
User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5761 times:

Additionally at the time of the CAB we had domestic and international designations for airlines.

Pan Am was extremely limited in which domestic destinations it could serve and who it could carry (ie connecting to Intl only) whereas domestic carriers like Delta, United etc were only supposed to go domestically, Mexico, Canada.

Later domestic carriers were given Intl rights but Pan Am and TWA were delayed for domestic because they were "too big and strong"

ACVitale


User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5705 times:

Activate,
A little correction. TWA always had a rather large domestic schedule while Pan Am had none. Juan Tripp had alienated so many congressmen that they absolutely refused to award any domestic traffic to Pan Am. Following deregulation, Pan Am finally had the opportunity to run a domestic market and this led to the acquisition of National. The only domestic service prior to that were extensions of International flights that could not carry any passengers between the 2 domestic city pairs.

Ed



Ed
User currently offlineTolosy From Luxembourg, joined Oct 2003, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5691 times:

Since I'm Dutch I sometimes have the same feeling with KLM. Whenever I'm at some remote place in the world where the bluebird picks me up, it is then that I already feel home!

Well next time you will fly with KLM, you'll feel in France


User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6490 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5671 times:

PanAm747,

Didn't Northwest have a fairly sizeable operation to Asia before deregulation ?


User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5525 times:

Bobnwa,
Northwest still has a pretty big presence in SE Asia. Their original name was "Northwest Orient Airlines" and they were Pan Am's chief competitor. I was lucky enough to get one of their DC-7C's between ORD and IDL back in 1961. It originated at SIN and worked its' way back to New York. Had bunks and all for first class passengers.

Ed



Ed
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6490 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5459 times:

Clipper002,

My question was asked tongue in cheek. I was trying to point out to PanAm747 that there were more than two global US airlines. Northwest was and is the largest US carrier to Asia.


User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5392 times:

Sorry about that. You're correct on both accounts. They used to have some really great service back then.

Ed



Ed
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5366 times:

>>Their original name was "Northwest Orient Airlines"<<

Actually, their original name was "Northwest Airways".... then Northwest Airlines, then Northwest Orient, then back to Northwest Airlines.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5349 times:

I stand corrected - I should have included Northwest Orient's Pacific route network with Braniff and Eastern's Americas network (I knew there were others!!). Their Tokyo hub was a spoil of WW2, which they have continued quite successfully today.

I'd be curious to know the extent of Pan Am's East and Northeast Asia service at its peak - how did it compare to NW?



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
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