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What Happened With AA's Mrtc?  
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3483 times:

Hi,

I'm just wondering what happened with AA's "More Room Throughout Coach"?. I noticed in my last flight with them in an A300 that apparently [or obviously] something went wrong. It's not a reality anymore.

Can anybody tell me why?

Thanks,

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4105 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3444 times:

In a dumb move, they got rid of it on the domestic fleet. Now, if you want more room, you'll have to come fly UA.  Big grin

Yes, they have more revenue seats now, but MRTC was a big draw for the AA frequent fliers. It was a dumb move on the part of AA IMO.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3438 times:

And thats why FriendlySkies you will never be a part of an airline management team. A business is there to do what?....





MAKE MONEY, Pure and simple economics my friend.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineTommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3419 times:

I just like the new seat covers. Yes, I am around 6 feet tall, but a comfortable seat is better than more legroom. Legroom can also be controlled through exit rows, or removing your bag from under the seat in front of you. Yes MRTC was a great thing, but it will not shift me from one airline to another.


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3402 times:

So, more seats = less room = more paxs = more money. I think the the "dumb thing" was to create the program MRTC that evidently didn't worked.

Am I wrong?

But if it is working for UA, why not for AA? Just because UA destine some [not all coach seats] to the "more legroom program" ?



User currently offlineORDflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3361 times:

The A300's and 757's have had MRTC removed for some time now, and it was just more recently that they announced the entire fleet will be returning to normal.
I think the the "dumb thing" was to create the program MRTC that evidently didn't worked.
Well, I belive their thinking was that by having the most coach legroom they would be able to lure more flyers and therefore their planes would be going out more full and they would make up for the revenue lost by removing rows of seats. Personally, I am sad to see MRTC go. I am tall, and it was a major factor in me choosing to do almost all of my recent flying with AA rather than my hometown airline (UA). I went out of my way to fly AA because of MRTC even if the price was higher than competitors. I know others have done the same, I guess in the end it just wasn't enough.


User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3346 times:

"Well, I belive their thinking was that by having the most coach legroom they would be able to lure more flyers and therefore their planes would be going out more full and they would make up for the revenue lost by removing rows of seats."

Please correct me if I'm wrong. You said "by removing rows of seats...". Is not truth that AA only removed just one row per airplane when introduced this program? That's what I read somewhere that I can't recall now.


User currently offlineIberia340600 From Spain, joined Oct 2003, 804 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

I think the the "dumb thing" was to create the program MRTC that evidently didn't worked.

Not really a dumb thing. When AA decided to do MRTC...the airline industry was in much better shape than it is now and AA's move was to lure more passengers and also increase frequencies. Now with the reduction of frequencies on certain routes, a couple of extra rows on an airplane goes a long way.



Visca Barça!!
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3309 times:

But such program was introduced after 9/11. Isn't it?

I mean, the airline industry was in a bad situation already [when such program was introduced].










User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3258 times:

Yes, I do believe MRTC came after 9/11 and early 2002


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineAA7573E From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 475 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3248 times:

You are poorly informed.

MRTC was introduced fleet wide in the mid to late 90's, coenciding with the technology boom and the surging US economy.

Over the past two years, AA has phased out MRTC on the 757 and A300 fleets, and has opted for a more dense cabin layout in an effort to maximize yield. However, the remaining 550 (give or take) S80, 738, 767, and 777 airframes all have, and will continue to have MRTC.

This has been discussed to the nth degree on this forum. Try doing a search first.




See you up front!
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3209 times:

Uh, AA7573E, perhaps it is you who needs to do a search.
Perhaps on AMRCorp's website for press releases, I am sure it is there.
MRTC is leaving the entire fleet. MRTC was not introduced in the mid 90s by any stretch of the imagination. I lean toward 98-99.

We know that it was pre 9-11, as there was some debate over whether the TWA planes would be refitted to MRTC. In the end, the entire TWA fleet was MRTC-converted. All of this took place in early 2001.
Taca, here's the scoop as far as I can tell. Originally, they thought they could charge coach passengers an extra $10- theoretically making MRTC an insane profit machine. Turns out, they couldn't. Yields are ridiculously low, and would continue to be low even if you started putting people in overhead bins, these days.

Different fleet types had different numbers of seats removed. MD-80s had two rows removed, as did 757s, if I remember correctly.

It works for United because United charges money for it. It's a separate class- only the full-fare coach passengers get the Economy Plus seating assignments.

I think that just about covers it. It's a shame they're ending the program. From a passenger's prespective (mine) it was GREAT. But, I will still fly them when it best fits me.


User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3173 times:

"This has been discussed to the nth degree on this forum. Try doing a search first."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------


No need to be rude or impolite. If you don't like this thread just simply don't participate. You're not obligated to.

You don't also know when this program started when you said:

"You are poorly informed.

MRTC was introduced fleet wide in the mid to late 90's, coenciding[sic] with the technology boom and the surging US economy." That's a period of five years.

The point here is that the service is over. No longer available. The reasons... Just read the previous posts.


User currently offlineAA7573E From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 475 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3166 times:

MRTC is still available at AA. Its in the entire fleet, discounting the A300 and 757 frames. MRTC is not coming out of the entire fleet, and all the rows of seats that were removed are not being put back. The program was begun in the mid to late 90's. The TWA fleet was obviously not encorporated at that time, since the acquisition of TWA had not even begun.

From a press release dated October 2004:

American will add back a portion of the coach seats previously removed from its MD80, 737, 767 and 777 fleets. On the MD80 and 737 aircraft, only one of the two rows of coach seats originally removed will be added back to those airplanes. In addition, the MD80 reconfiguration will expand the first class cabin by two seats, in recognition of the value American's customers place on its first class product.

TACA. It's common to research threads before posting them, so I will suggest again, that you look things up before starting new threads.

[Edited 2004-11-24 13:47:08]


See you up front!
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3147 times:

"TACA. It's common to research threads before posting them, so I will suggest again, that you look things up before starting new threads."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I did it before posting anything. And guess what? Got nothing.

I just double check, and also... got nothing again.

Am I doing something wrong? Maybe. But I was trying to do my best at that time [ when searching ].

Thanks a lot for the advise, but as I said, I already did it.

And don't be angry for a situation that affect your apparently favorite airline. That's my recommendation to you.


User currently offlineFalcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3143 times:

They found out MRTC meant L$TC.  Big grin



User currently offlineSkedguy From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 135 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3076 times:
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Sorry, AA7573E, but I think you're missing the big picture and getting caught in AA's spin-doctoring.

Yes, it's true that the release says that only one of two rows will be returned the Y-cabin in the S80s, but it also says that "the MD80 reconfiguration will expand the first class cabin by two seats". Currently, the F-cabin on the S80s is rows 3-5 on the one side and rows 2-5 on the other side. The side with rows 3-5 also has a lav and closet, which is why it has one less row. Unless AA plans to remove the F-cabin closet, guess where the room for that extra F-cabin row is going to come from? Yup, the Y-cabin.

In summary, even though AA is technically only replacing one of two Y-cabin rows in the S80s and 738s, in essence MRTC will be a thing of a past with the expansion of the F-cabin on the S80s.

[Edited 2004-11-24 17:56:55]

[Edited 2004-11-24 17:57:24]

User currently offlineAA7573E From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 475 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3053 times:

AA M80's do not have a row 2 in them, seating starts on row 3. You may want to take a look at seatguru.com, or try flying first class once before you start making statements about the seat configuration.


See you up front!
User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3238 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3043 times:

If I may add my two cents worth here.

only the full-fare coach passengers get the Economy Plus seating assignments.

Actually, FFs with elite status with UA and StarAlliance gold card holders
can also get on the Economy Plus seats, on whatever fare they are booked.
I'm the latter and been using EP seats for a few years now and, yes, they
absolutely rule compared to getting crammed in economy on any other airline.
I was also reading in another thread that companies that have a large
corporate deal with UA can also book their employees on EP seats, again
irrespective of fare. I wouldn't be surprised if UA use this as a lever to get
some corporate accounts back from AA.

But, now, going back to our main topic. I'm one of these people who also
loved AA's MRTC. I flew JFK-NRT twice last year (each leg is 14h) and
MRTC made the flights more bearable. In fact, the second time I was happy
that I was booked on AA because of MRTC. But now, without it, I will join
the few people who have already posted on this thread and get out
of my way to fly UA because of the EP seats.

If AA think that they can increase their profits by removing MRTC,
good luck to them (and I'm actually really saying this sincerely).
However, they have definitely lost my business.

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3030 times:

AA7573E-

MRTC will be completely gone, all planes (except the MD's and 737) will go back to their pre-MRTC configuration.

You are correct seating starts at Row 3, which is stupid as hell, Why not just start at row 1.

American will add back a portion of the coach seats previously removed from its MD80, 737, 767 and 777 fleets. On the MD80 and 737 aircraft, only one of the two rows of coach seats originally removed will be added back to those airplanes. In addition, the MD80 reconfiguration will expand the first class cabin by two seats, in recognition of the value American's customers place on its first class product.

Meaning that all planes will get back rows, with a couple adding more FC to match NW's previous All 16 seat FC (Minus the DC-9-10 which will be gone in a month)



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3009 times:

Skedguy

You're absolutely right. AA7573E take a look at this link, because your statement is false.

http://seatguru.com/airlines/American_Airlines/American_Airlines_MD-80.php


User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2978 times:

My presumption as to why MRTC started post-9-11 is because of the rampant overcapacity across the board. Not many were flying for over three years so they may as well remove a few rows and build a better customer loyalty with those who did fly during the airtravel slumps while saving on needless weight. Less seats = more cargo capacity and that's where the money was.

Don't you notice now that AA cleverly changed the "More Room Throughout Coach" logo to simply "More Room"? If you read the small print there's now more room for everything... except your legs.




"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
User currently offlineLY4XELD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 857 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2948 times:

Did A300's ever have MRTC? I find it hard to believe that they have already implemented the removal of MRTC since the announcement a few weeks ago. AA 757's haven't had MRTC, and I'm not sure if the A300's are in the same boat. It took quite a long time to get it implemented in the first place.


That's why we're here.
User currently offlineSkedguy From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 135 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2940 times:
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AA7573E,

Yes, you are technically correct that the AA S80s on the right side are rows 3 through 6 -- not rows 2 through 5 as I incorrectly stated. However, I think my point was clear to 99.9% of the readers here.

Also, why the inflammatory comment, "(...)try flying first class once before you start making statements about the seat configuration."? This is only my second post ever to Airliners.net, and although I'm a frequent reader, it's comments like these that keep me from posting more often. I happened to have worked in AA mgmt for more than four years, and now I've been doing flight scheduling/planning for almost four years at one of the most successful carriers in the U.S. (No, I was not laid off from AA -- I left well before 9/11).

Anyway, I feel like I have something worthwhile to contribute here, especially since one of my closest friends in what used to be AA's Mktng Planning was instrumental in the MRTC program. Yes, I got the row numbering wrong in my post (big deal), but I wasn't speaking about the F-class issue out of total inexperience.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2928 times:

Skedguy, there are many ignorant people here who don't bother to read what one is saying or are just very rude in general......i try to avoid confrontational comments unless i feel a comment is way out of whack..that being said, you will find many thoughtful, intelligent and articulate comments/information here...

welcome to the club,



"Up the Irons!"
25 Raybolt : Sorry to say so, but some of the B772s have extra rows added back already. They are being added back in during heavy checks. I was on both N778AN and
26 RogerThat : Skedguy, pay no attention to what some of these people say. I'm one of the 99.9% who knew what you were talking about. I was caught up in AA's spin-do
27 AA7573E : MRTC was not a reaction to over capacity post 9/11. It was a great marketing and sales move by AA at a time when people paid for comfort, and LCCs wer
28 Goingboeing : as there was some debate over whether the TWA planes would be refitted to MRTC. In the end, the entire TWA fleet was MRTC-converted. That would mean t
29 Post contains links AirChaos : According to American Airlines website, nothing has happened to MRTC. You may want to check out the below link. http://www.aa.com/content/uk/onboard/y
30 Tommy767 : MRTC was released in 2000 NOT the 1990s. It was continued after 9/11 and advertised dramatically over the past few years. In 2003, they scaled the pla
31 Post contains links and images Burnsie28 : According to American Airlines website, nothing has happened to MRTC. You may want to check out the below link. http://www.aa.com/content/uk/onboard/y
32 TACAA320 : AirChaos and Burnsie28 indicate two different links with different information brought by AA's web site.. That's very interesting and confusing, becau
33 Burnsie28 : Airchaos is looking at the British site which is less updated, currently MRTC is still there but will be gone soon.
34 Ckfred : First of all, MRTC was announced in the late winter or early spring of 2000. I remember, because I heard Mary Frances Fagin, the AA spokeswoman at ORD
35 Burnsie28 : The problem may have been that AA only advertised MRTC in its major markets, such New York, Boston, L.A., Miami, Chicago, and Dallas. It was never par
36 SegmentKing : I believe that MRTC was in response to United's Economy Plus, and nothing else. Think that AA was going to take out seats on their own? That's bullshi
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