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The Use Of The F Bathroom By Y Passengers  
User currently offlineFanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1615 posts, RR: 5
Posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7827 times:

(Also posted on FlyerTalk)

Maybe I'm preaching to the choir when I say that I feel if you're in Y, you should use the Y bathroom. Tonights first class cabin, EWR to SLC, was overrun by Y passengers not wanting to walk to the back of the plane. Our FA in first did her best to "shoo" the intruders from first, she even attached the rope in effort to keep them at bay.

After about 5 min somebody's kid came crashing through the rope like it was the rope at the finish line, and that action caused the rope to whip the man in 4B in the face as the boy flew by. The boy set a precedent for the rest of the flight, and our FA gave up trying to keep them out. We had people lining up around 4B & C wating for the bathroom, as our FA wouldn't let them wait in the forward galley. As I was seated in 4C, i became even more annoyed as people bumped into my seat as I was trying to eat dinner. So much for a quiet, exclusive first class cabin.

There are two issures at hand here. Issue #1, am I being too picky to not want those in Y camping out in the first class cabin and using the first class bathroom? Issue #2, how does Delta balance the needs of those in first class (by sending the intruders to the rear of the plane) without sounding snooty and pissing people off that are in coach? (I realize they need to be as nice to everyone as possible, as they need every customer they can get.)

Any remarks, ideas, discussion points?


"FLY DELTA JETS"
83 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRtfm From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7790 times:

No I don't think that you are being picky.... you paid for F; they didn't. So they don't get to use the F toilet, eat your food or sit in your seat.

Not sure what the answer is to the second question though, other than just being firm and saying 'no' (easier said than done I appreciate, especially with someone's bratty kid!)


User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7785 times:

F lavs are for F pax. There is no argument.

As for the little rugrat crashing thru the rope and smacking the guy in the face - better be damn glad it wasn't me sitting there in 4B. That little monster and I and his parents would have had a conversation . . . you can bet that.

No excuse, absolutely no excuse for letting a kid run wild like that . . . on a plane, bus, train, where ever.

I can see the nasty letter from the gent in 4B going to DL already. Righteously so.



User currently offlineS12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7772 times:

This has been discussed, in very heated terms in the past. I feel you are, but you aren't being too picky. The lav is the lav. People gotta go. If I was a Y pax sitting directly behind first class, I would want to be able to use the closest bathroom possible. I feel it's a right people payed to have. Now. I have been the First Class passenger on a 757 when the front lav was not in use, while the aft one was full with a line. It was right after the movie, and to top it off, a middle school band was on the flight as well. I generally did not mind them using the front lav, but a line by your seat is anoying. Especially if you are trying to work on private materials on your laptop, etc. I personally don't like people reading over my shoulder and such. As a first class pax, I wouldn't mind at all of Y pax used the lav up front, as long as a line didn't form. That is the rule anyways. You aren't allowed to form a line near the cockpit anyways. So not only would it be helping increase comfort of the F pax, it would also be following the law. I know there are others that feel strongly that Y pax not use the "first class" lav, but I mean...come on. Are we getting spoiled now? It's a bathroom folks, not the seat itself. Are you really going to deny someone with an emergancy when the aft lavs are in use? Are you going to tell that 8 year old to just hold it while the 3 or 4 people in front of him go? That's a little harsh...


User currently offlineJetboyflyhi From France, joined Oct 2004, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7759 times:

Your discussion matter is well received by me.FC is for FC all airlines make PA's stating the forward lav is for FC we as FA's try to enforce this but at times the pax overrun us and I try to avoid conflict (because people will be people)How ever if a line starts I will intervene..I hope this helps your ? Hope you have wonderful FC experience in the future! And we do appreciate you as our passenger! The DL flight I can not speak for. Happy Flying!


Chicken or Beef?
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7747 times:

S12PPL "Are you going to tell that 8 year old to just hold it while the 3 or 4 people in front of him go? That's a little harsh..."

If the little 8 year old can act like a proper person and not run through the aircraft then it's a different story. The example in the original post does not conform to my definition of proper person, period. Harsh as it may seem, that's just too bad. Adults tend to 'look the other way' or simply excuse the actions of a child because that person is a child. I would not. And before anyone asks, yes, I have children, yes they fly with me in F, yes they know how to act in public places. They know there is a time and place to act like an animal and visa versa.

Blast away a.netters.






User currently offlineJpdx From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7732 times:

It can be very difficult, as a FA, to manage that forward lav. If I keep Y paxs from coming up, no matter how polite I am, I get scolded. Accused of being a stuck up, no good, snooty, FA. Of course I'm following company policy, but that does not matter.

It's a good choice to limit traffic up front, mainly from a safety point, but also if a pax pays for first (thru $$, or upgraded -- hey -- you've earned it!) they also deserve a quiet cabin.

On international flights it's a different matter, it's US law that paxs cannot move forward AT ALL. On my last flight I had a pax screaming at me in first coming back from Mexico. THAT was fun! When you try to explain why (lav next to flight deck--US law--get arrested) they just don't care. I love my job, and all jobs have their downsides...this is it for me!

Funny thing is...those very same passengers who get upset about being denied usage of the forward lav probably would get irate if they were sitting in first class and had people constantly moving forward to use it. Ahhh...human nature!

[Edited 2004-11-25 08:37:56]

User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7724 times:

Jpdx-Isn't it an FAA Regulation that passengers must use the lavatory in their own cabin?


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineJpdx From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7715 times:

Only on international inbound flights -- at AS it's company policy only on domestic. And I think we're getting sued for it on the domestic side...

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7708 times:

jpdx, I do not envy your position. You lose or you lose.

SHUPirate1, if there is an FAA rule, I've never heard of it. Airline policy I'm sure. I recall, pre 9/11 when the F/A would pull a curtain between F and Y there was a polite but obvious sign (on CO or US, I forget) that read simply: Premium Cabin Passengers Only . . .something like that. Between the sign and the drawn curtain, it eliminated the issue nearly completely.

Not any more . . . no curtain, no sign . . . I believe the smaller, single aisle aircraft suffer this problem more prevelently then a wide body with the F and J/Y cabins separated by a couple of lavs, galley, doors, etc.



User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2661 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7699 times:

I believe the FAA rule is that people cannot 'congretate' anywhere other than their assigned seat. Which would include a line to the lav, front or rear.

I'd take the kid aside and give a few words of wisdom in a calm quiet manner(enough to scare the crap out of him and go back to mommy crying).

What's more disturbing, is I've never seen a line like that for a lav on a full DL 738 (assuming a/c type here). Maybe the food for sale was stale or something?



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineJetboyflyhi From France, joined Oct 2004, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7697 times:

Jpdx I totally agree w you thank you for your post.


Chicken or Beef?
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7696 times:

On my flights, the Captain always mentions F lavs for F passengers and Y lavs for Y passengers....and too bad for the Y passenger needing to go to the restroom up front (I tend to travel cattle class most of the time, so i'm in that Y group).............

if a passenger wants to be treated as an "equal", fly an LCC like WN....that way there will be no "classes" present.....

an emergency, i can understand, but premium passengers deserve premium service....end of story....




"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2661 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7682 times:

Jacobin777: "the Captain always mentions F lavs for F passengers and Y lavs for Y passengers"

The captian??? or the cabin crew / flight attendants ??>



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineS12PPL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7666 times:

People...we're losing something in the translation. It's a toilet. It's not exactly a first class meal or anything. It's a toilet. People relieve themselves in there....That's all. It is a toilet. I don't quite understand how it's a big deal. Now, if it was some exlusive service provided to first class passengers, then I could understand. On most domestic US flights, they don't put anything special in the lav to make it a special "First Class S**tter". If we can't get past the fact that it's just a damn toilet, I think we are getting a wee bit stuck up here. If I'm "paying" lots of money to use the toilet, I might as well stick to coach. Hell, at least that way I'm only paying about $140 to use the crapper. Let's also not forget that most people don't "pay" for first class. They use miles, or executive privilages to bump up from a cheap fare. So before we get all snooty, and yes...if you care who uses the damn toilet, we are being snooty, let's also remember some people payed the same price as you for that seat you are in, you may have only used your miles to upgrade. So, if I found out you used miles to upgrade from that same $140 internet special fare, and you're whining at me for using "your" lav, we'd be having a discussion.

C'mon guys...let's get beyond this...Remember, we use the thing maybe once on an hour and a half flight...4-5 times max on a JFK-SFO/LAX flight. Am I right?


User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7604 times:

Every flight I've been on with AA, they have clearly stated that F and Y class passengers should use their respected lavatories. I have never had a problem using the restroom in F class when I'm seated there. no one ever barges past the galleys to come up front.

AA777jr


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19260 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 7508 times:

It's a toilet. Just that.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 7502 times:

See Post #2 and Post #5 and Post #9. Nuf Said . . . .

User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 33
Reply 18, posted (10 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 7485 times:

Yes, it's a toilet. But C/F passengers also respect the quieter cabin etc. F/C class facilities are for F/C passengers no matter if you paid with miles or money. Try using the premium class lav on an Asian airline... First there is a curtain that has a big "FIRST CLASS PASSENGERS ONLY" sign, if that doesn't work the F/A will be escorting you back in no time. The way it should work.


Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (10 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7428 times:

B4Real..you stated...

"The captian??? or the cabin crew / flight attendants ??>"....nopes, the captain!! I might even have the captain mentioning it somewhere on my camcorder (AA738 SFO-ORD), I would have to look for it.....I'm flying again on Friday, so I will pay attention to it..



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 20, posted (10 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7410 times:

If I was a full fare paying pax sitting in F (and I assume you mean on US domestic services?) and people were disturbing me persistently, I too would be pissed off. When you pay for an F class seat you expect some exclusivity, privacy even.

Pe@rson's comment that it is just a toilet. Does that mean he would offer his bathroom at home to any passing tramp should they need a number 2?

7LBAC111



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineChilledflyer From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7391 times:

I don't agree with some the people here because you should only use what you have paid for. Simple as that. If anyone have ever noticed, F/C class toilets are ever so slightly different to Y class toilets. Having such difference already suggests that people in first/business have paid for the privileges in having such luxury, no matter how small the difference is.

--chilledflyer--



Justice delayed, Justice denied
User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 33
Reply 22, posted (10 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7334 times:

I guess SQ for example would love the Y class folks using all the Bvlgari cologne in the F lavs... Big grin


Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineFanoftristars From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1615 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (10 years 1 month 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7133 times:

S12PPL:

You're right, it is just a toilet. The thing that bothers me was the congregation around first class. The constant disruption of people walking past and bumping into me or waiting next to my seat.

I may have not paid a first class fare but I did originally pay a mid-level fare on DL (as did my travel companion who was also upgraded), I was changed from an ealier connecting flight to the later non-stop flight getting in much later than I had wanted, and you may not understand the value of a frequent flyer to an airline, but DL does when they award their medallion flyers with those seats. It's a nice way of saying thanks for the $$Thousands I pay DL each year.

I agree the 757 is much better because it has two forward lavs, one behind first and one in front of first. This keeps the intrusions to a minimum.

One other thing that is annoying, medallion members that don't get the upgrade will often use the first class facilities like they are their own. If I don't get my upgrade, I respect the status/fare paid of those that did get an upagrade, and I use the toilets in the back like the rest of Y. Besides, it's often fun to wait at the back and talk with the FAs on their frustrations.



"FLY DELTA JETS"
User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 month 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7126 times:

My 2 pee worth. Y cabin should use the toilets in the Y cabin.

Hhhmmmmmm perhaps the airlines should start making Y pax pay for the use of F/C toilets on board. Boy oh boy, I can see it now. $10.00 a pop for the lou


25 Post contains images Zonky : I'm surprised Ryanair doesn't sell paper by the sheet on their trolley, to be honest
26 Post contains images Pe@rson : You could use my toilet, 7LBAC, so I guess I would offer it to tramps.
27 BHMNONREV : This must be becoming an issue as of late, I flew DFW-BHM in F class on AA a few days ago and twice the pilot stated the lav "protocol" for the Y pax.
28 Pilotaydin : hey please dont bash me, not a good day, but basically if someone paid more for a ticket, they sit up front...and yeah they get their F service and al
29 Skymonster : If I pay an F-class fare, or EARN an F-class upgrade, there are some things I expect. Amongst them are, a better seat, more leg room, a better meal, c
30 Aerofan : Pilot - humerous but u are right. I think it is another one of those entitlement crap that is currently making the rounds. You know the type - I didn'
31 Post contains images EGGD : If you paid for the ticket, then I believe you have a right to be upset. However, if you are non-revving/all expenses paid trip or free upgrade then I
32 Pilotaydin : aerofan i agree with ya about that stuff.... maybe it's me, i am from a third world country and ive grown up in 3rd world countries, ive never been ab
33 Planespotting : I think Y class pax could use the F class lav, however they should not be able to line up for it and with only minimal disturbance of the first class
34 Aerofan : If I was a FA. I would not allow any Y pax to use the F or J cabin toilet.
35 Aerofan : What's next? hmm I don't like how my seat recline, I'm going to rest in a J cabin seat for a bit.... or I definitely don't like the food that you are
36 CrossChecked : QUOTE : People...we're losing something in the translation. It's a toilet. It's not exactly a first class meal or anything. It's a toilet. People reli
37 Fanoftristars : "If you're a Y passenger, you STAY IN Y. If you're a J passenger, you STAY IN J or Y and if you're an F passenger, go where you want." CrossChecked: I
38 CrossChecked : Fanoftristars, cheers for the reply! Of course, there's no issue for a F pax touring the rest of the plane or a J pax going in to Y for a walk around,
39 S12PPL : Does no one read what I type?? I have said at least twice now that as an F passenger, I do not mind Y passengers using the special "first class crappe
40 Post contains images Fbgdavidson : What about the reverse? Flying LHR-BCN on 767 a couple of weeks back CE only covered a few rows and so I had to venture behind the curtain with the ru
41 CrossChecked : QUOTE : Does no one read what I type?? Nope! QUOTE : Hell, I havn't been turned away yet. You haven't been on one of my flights then, mate. [Edited 20
42 KateAA : I sometimes allow passengers from coach into business and business into first if there is a wait for the bathroom, but I make a point of escorting the
43 Fanoftristars : "Those on this board that think it's such a huge hassle to let Y pax use the damn toilet once in a while" I don't think it's a problem, once in a whil
44 LegendDC9 : This was much less of a problem before the curtains were taken out as deviders between cabins. Now people in Y just assume they can go to the nearest
45 PacificWestern : There have been times when because of trolleys being in the way, FA's in Y class have told passengers to use the FC loo as getting to the rear of the
46 Jonty : soz for the stupid Q but why can't they have a curtain dividing the classes?
47 Post contains images Pilotaydin : ok...everyone go before the flight and we'll solve this legend: i dont think people assume it, or think it's their right...they need to go to the bath
48 COEWR2587 : I always thought, F class lavs should be for just F class pax. I hate it, not to discriminate, when kids and elderly pax try to use the F class bathro
49 UAfan17 : It is not right to use an F lav while sitting in coach unless u GOTTA GO BAD because then just explain the issue to an F/A and im sure things will be
50 Hmmmm... : For those that say a toilet is a toilet - I say -Oh no it ain't. The toilet is the most important seat in the house. Whether it be on the ground, or i
51 Post contains images NWADC9 : Remember that a.netter that works for XJ as an FA and got some apple juice and warm water and poured it right in front of the lavatory and laughed at
52 Ckfred : Here's a dumb question. Do F passengers get in trouble for using lavatories in Y? If there are a couple of people waiting for the First Class lav, and
53 KITH : As a usual coach passenger, I have used the FC lav, but only when I can't get back to the back. Recently I've been traveling F a lot more and on my mo
54 Jacobin777 : Pilotaydin....i couldn't agree more, those lavatories in all classes are disgusting..i try to avoid them as much as possible..the most I'll go is once
55 Skydrol : Although there is an announcement at the beginning of flights that the forward lavatory is exclusively for the use of the first class passengers, I ha
56 CrossChecked : QUOTE : being an F pax doesnt make people cleaner, and being Y doesn't make them dirtier No, you're absolutely right! But being 12 F pax DOES make the
57 LegendDC9 : "soz for the stupid Q but why can't they have a curtain dividing the classes?" Jonty, after 9/11 curtains were removed so the F/A's and any marshals o
58 Post contains images Lincoln : Ckfred: Here's a dumb question. Do F passengers get in trouble for using lavatories in Y? If there are a couple of people waiting for the First Class
59 Ken777 : I believe the main problem is on the smaller, single aisle planes. If the flight is a short one, like an hour, I'm not too worried about people from Y
60 Flybyguy : I think out of respect Y passengers should remain in Y. I personally will find it not entirely proper and quite embarrassing if I just waltzed up into
61 KKMolokai : I just returned from spending Thanksgiving in Hawaii, and both to/from Hawaii (on AA), on each flight both the captain and purser (during their announ
62 N1120a : You know, I generally have started ignoring these threads as the elitism here gets really annoying, but I think this one warrents a response. First of
63 N317AS : I was just on an AA flight from SEA-ORD-STL and back. The F/As on all the flights made it perfectly clear that F Class lavs were for F Class and Y Cla
64 Airgeek12 : I agree with mostly everyone in here;I don't think you are being picky at all. If you payed for first class ticket- you also paid for the first class
65 Post contains images Fbgdavidson : but there's nothing like popping your head behind the curtain 1/2 way through the flight and peering in on "cattle class"...Kids running around, peopl
66 VS045 : It can be annoying if y pax are queing for the F lav, they should stick to what they payed for, but if you gotta go - you gotta go! However, I do reca
67 UA744KSFO : I like the way that the lavs are situated on the UA 757's. There is one exclusively for F, two exclusively for Y, and then one between the two cabins.
68 Supa7E7 : It is always amusing how the FA or Capt puts this policy into customer-friendly mumbo jumbo. ..."Thank you for respecting this arrangement." (kind of
69 Cactus739 : Just something to think about. I went to several airlines websites and checked out seatmaps for their 757-200's. It looks like American is the most ge
70 Blueairbureau : From this F/A's stand point, if you conduct yourself in a first class manner you should be allowed to wait behind first class until that lav is vacant
71 Fanoftristars : I think the bottom line is this: Rule #1 Y pax should stay out of the first class cabin during flight. If a Y Pax tries to use an F bathroom, they'd b
72 Skydrol : Blueairbureau: Pax travel in F for one of four reasons: - they have the money to pay for an F ticket - their employer has the money to pay for an F ti
73 Fbgdavidson : The lavs are there for necessity. They are not part of a specific quality of service provided such as legroom, seat width, full recline, food, drinks,
74 Arkhem : Let's not forget about the executive traveling in F who became furious because they cut him off booze and then pissed on the seats and in the aisle an
75 Blueairbureau : There will always be somebody who is the exception to the rule. I'm not an idiot Skydrol. So save your lectures for Y class. Because your not telling
76 N328KF : This sort of situation is what the onboard AEDs are for.
77 Post contains images Blueairbureau : N328KF, O.K., I give,what do you mean? I would never intentionaly use that on a Y class pax unless they needed it. Besides it's not a taser
78 Jetboyflyhi : HEY N328KE what ?....The AED is for all PAX no mader Y class or sitting hot in the back.we have the AED in all AC and I hope it is never used......
79 N328KF : I was referring to alternate usage as a crowd-control device.
80 Jetboyflyhi : what .this is about the sh*ter and if you are better than the 1st class pax
81 N328KF : Easy: Use the AED on unruly passengers who refuse to use the proper bathroom.
82 Blueairbureau : WoW! we just found a new use for a life saving device on a crapper forum topic. When will the uses for the AED end.
83 J_hallgren : Back some years ago, when I flew from TPA-BOS/PVD about 3 times a year, I always used a bulkhead seat due to my height...I would, on those rare times
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