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KU And Their ORD Operations  
User currently offlineBeijing21 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2004, 83 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3281 times:

KU has recently redirect their flights to ORD from AMS, where a lot of comptetion is going on and made the profits low, to GVA where they are the sole carrier to operate that route. Has anybody some info of how these flights are working ?

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

yes airliners.net username : Vimanav would know.

User currently offlineHorus From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 5230 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3250 times:

This month's AW magazine had the third article about KU, which included this issue. Sheikh Talal (KU's CEO) said about the suspention of AMS, "Amsterdam was a very seasonal destination and the economies were not good, while Geneva offers a much stronger demand from high-yield passengers." As for the ORD flight, at AMS KU was facing stiff compeition from KL, NW and UA while at GVA they are the sole operator.

Horus




EGYPT: A 7,000 Year Old Civilisation
User currently offlineBeijing21 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2004, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3236 times:

Thanks Horus, I also read the article but the interview was made prior the launch of the services. If indeed they found advantages to motivate a redirection I would be glad to verify their hypothesis.

User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2899 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3147 times:

Pity, I flew KU AMS-KWI four years ago, service was excellent. AMS also lost SQ to New York thanks to the non-stop flights from SIN. This should be good news for KL (and bad news for any future passenger) as KL will now have AMS-KWI to itself again.


I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3062 times:

If this new KU route via GVA to ORD doesnt do well in its first year, dont be surprised to see ORD being suspended and instead JFK becoming DAILY!!!

OR

KU moving from some of its or all of its JFK flights to EWR due to cheaper slots being available there + better US-CAN feed.

Btw...this is 1st hand information Im giving u and not third party  Big grin

I would prefer it if KU suspended ORD and replace it with LAX 2-3 times a week via an EU city due to the thousands upon thousands of Arabs-Iranians-South Asians and North Africans that live in the LAX-SAN area who desperately want an Arab airline to fly them to their homeland which MS at one time used to do via JFK on B 763ERs.

KU would have a monopoly at LAX (especially with Arabs) where as at ORD, AI-PIA give them tough competition alongwith all the Euro majors such as BA-AF-LH-KLM who fly to KWI daily (except AF).

[Edited 2004-11-28 08:35:03]

User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3053 times:

According to CLEVELAND.COM, Tim Clark EKs President has said that

"We have very large ambitions for the United States," said Clark, in an interview in Dubai. Emirates' first nonstop flight started in the summer from New York. Next year there will be another, and soon, three, said Clark. He is looking also at Chicago, Boston and Houston".

"First class is amazing. For travelers willing to spend about $12,000, Emirates has 12 first-class seats that are like private cabins. Sit at a desk in your electrically controlled massaging seat, watch movies on your own 19-inch screen, choose from each item of a multicourse meal that will be served when you want it, then lie back on a flat bed with down-filled pillows and pull closed the sliding door to sleep".



User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3042 times:

"I would prefer it if KU suspended ORD"..from what I know, the ORD route is doing quite well..many non-arabs (i.e. pakistanis/indians) very much like KU as their air carrier to Pakistan/India.....




"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3025 times:

Jacobin777, ORD route for KU isnt doing too well...it is popular with South Indians especially those from COK-MAA-TRV and Pakistanis from LHE-ISB but that is in peak season mainly.

Overall the route is losing a lot of money...I have seen the figures both high and low season and its not good at all. A key factor is the lack of marketing of the ORD route in the ORD area and in its niche markets of India-Pak-Arabia-DAC.

Another factor is that its only twice a week when for such a route to succeed it should be 3 weekly at least minimum especially in order to attract the high yield paying pax and to cover the operating costs.


User currently offlineCodeshare From Poland, joined Sep 2002, 1854 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2992 times:

I've read at some point that the ORD route was supposed to have a stop at Athens, Greece.


How much A is there is Airliners Net ? 0 or nothing ?
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2977 times:

Yes KU won approval from USA to route their ORD flights via ATH with full 5th freedom rights as then they would be the only airline flying that route nonstop + there is a huge expat Greek community in the ORD area + suburbs.

But the Greek govt didnt permit KU to fly the route with 5th freedom rights so KU has to give it up.



User currently offlineEuroLeb From Canada, joined Apr 2004, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2924 times:

Will KU be next to acquire the new B-7E7? Any roumors out there????????


Calgary is my home...
User currently offlineCaptain777 From Kuwait, joined Dec 2003, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2888 times:

Well there are strong roumors that KU will acquire the 7E7. Not long ago a member of A.net said that he saw a picture of KU's CEO in a magazine or website , anyway he said that in the background behind the CEO was a model of a 7E7 in KU livery. Hope that helps.


KU's CEO has been seen alot latly in Kuwaity news papers the last few months. Yesturday he said that it is time for KU to change the whole fleet to a more modren fleet as soon as possible. Another day he appeared in an article saying : that KU will see alot of route altering in the coming months. The CEO also signed several deals with leading companies in the aviation world in order to make a better service for KU's passengers.

Yesturday I even read in the paper that Kuwait Int' Airport will be expanding an adding new terminals for passengers and adding more gates for airplanes, the "expanded" termainal will be owned by a private sector.

What is worrying KU right now is note how the routes do, but the new compition of the first privatly owned airline in Kuwait AL- Jazzira. But the CEO ( Sheik Talal ) said in an article that he welcomes the compition of the new airline and this will not be an obstacle for KU instead it will make a good compition "that we needed " in order for KU to improve it service to attract more passengers.



Captain



the sky is the limit.............actually FL410 is the limit
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

KU moving from some of its or all of its JFK flights to EWR due to cheaper slots being available there.... this is 1st hand information Im giving u and not third party

I highly doubt that your information is "firsthand" since anybody who deals with this would know that you don't pay for "slots" at either JFK or EWR. In fact, while JFK is slot-constrained for operations at peak hours there are absolutely no slot constraints whatsoever at EWR.


User currently offlineBeijing21 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2004, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2747 times:

KU remains in GVA and has faith in it because of the proportion of high yield passenger they can attract on their flights.

1. Does the number be sufficient enough to sustain their strategy of being on markets with only twice weekly connections ?

2. Will in fact GVA remain online ?

In between purchasing 7E7s, will they turn on an another equipment to enlarge their fleet more rapidly than waiting 2009...?
By this time the entire gulf sky will be jammed by the words : "HUBS" and "SPOKES"


User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2740 times:

Another reason the yields are so low, particularly on the ORD-KUW route is that their flights are deeply discounted, particularly to the Indian subcontinent. You can literally fly business class on KU for the price of an economy class ticket elsewhere.

Yet there are some limitations KU has to overcome if they want to be a dominant player, particularly to GVA. First off, they need to align themselves with Star, Oneworld or Skyteam so that frequent flyers will be attracted to them. Secondly, (and I'm hearing this secondhand from people who have flown them), their reputation is as a reliable, well meaning carrier that's not quite up to scratch when compared with the likes of GF and EK. There is no booze (may or may not be a plus) plus their service can be inconsistent. On the plus side, in all classes there is generous legroom, PTV's and the food is not bad.

How's that for a little unsolicited opinion... Anyone else with direct experience?

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineCaptain777 From Kuwait, joined Dec 2003, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2718 times:

In between purchasing 7E7s, will they turn on an another equipment to enlarge their fleet more rapidly than waiting 2009...?

Well KU are looking to buy some A330 to replace the A300/310's. As I said earlyer the CEO said that its time to change the fleet ( I think he means all the fleet ) and as soon as poosible, he also made a comment on how long a delivery may take "between 14 to 23 months " as he said, I think buy saying this he is hinting that the orders will take palce very soon . Hopfuly

Anyone else with direct experience?

I have flow with KU many times. They do have a good service as you said above. PTV's on every aircraft in every seat, a good leg space, a great seat pitch, and excellant ticket prices. Good pilots and staff too.



Captain



the sky is the limit.............actually FL410 is the limit
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2692 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

KU is a nice little airline, flew them on LHR-JFK-LHR on their 777's, and having flown Gulf Air and Emirates previously it was interesting to see what KU were like. Good punctuality, attentive crews, PTV's, and for once, the food was actually tasty. The only downer was the seat pitch on my flight, it felt a bit on the tight side. My mum was once bumped up to Oasis class once on her LHR-KWI-DAC flight, she said it was awesome!




In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2666 times:

GVA is one of KUs top 10 most profitable destinations and hence it will remain online if ORD does indeed in the future get suspended from the route network.

Yes if u live in USA and want to fly from ORD or JFK to India, Kuwait Airways is one of the cheapest options alongwith Aeroflot. Though it is cheap, you get your money's worth as they fly modern A 340s and B 777s to USA with tvs in every seat and ample leg room in Y class (I fly them every May and Aug from ORD or JFK to ISB and back).

Even their Indian flights on AB6s and A 310s have tvs in every seat so for the price u pay, you get a minimum 4 star product with 5 star cabin crew service.

KU isnt confirmed purchasing A 332s...it will be a tough choice as the B 7E7 series is a better all round replacement for their A 310/AB6 fleet where as the A 332 is considered too big of an aircraft to replace flights currently flown by A 310-300s.


User currently offlineCaptain777 From Kuwait, joined Dec 2003, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2627 times:

"A 332 is considered too big of an aircraft to replace flights currently flown by A 310-300s"

You're right but sooner or later these aircrafts must be changed as they are becoming quite old. I mean although they are comftable for the passengers and you can't tell that its an "old" lady from the cabin, but at the first glimbs into the cockpit you'll see how old the aircraft is ! So they will be repalced sooner or later, and when they are repalced they can't be repalced by a smaller aircraft like the A320 or B737 , so arguying with your point up there they must be repalced by the A330-200, because the same routes that can't handle a bigger aircraft than the A300 also can't a smaller aircraft than the A300 regarding passenger yield.





Captain



the sky is the limit.............actually FL410 is the limit
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2595 times:

KUs A 310-300s were newly ordered in 1992 and delivered in 93-95 timeframe so some of them are less than 10 years old. They can easily drag on till 2008 when the B 7E7-800 is going to be launched and then use the -800 to replace the A 310s and -900s (257 seaters) to replace the AB6s.

The cost savings, economics and return on investment on B 7E7-800s/900s I feel would be far better than the A 330-200s. But then again thats a personal viewpoint.


User currently offlineCaptain777 From Kuwait, joined Dec 2003, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2573 times:

KU is one of the airliners that don't take one type of airplanes to make up there fleet. So the 7E7 will replace a type in KU but I don't think it will replace 2 types and it might even not replace any type either i.e Just expand the fleet further.

"personally" this is how I would like to see KU's future fleet

777-200's (more)
777-300's
737-NG's
A330-200's
A330-300's
A340-500's
A340-600's
A3201819's

Yup no 7E7's or A380 !!

With this fleet they should hopfully be able to expand there routes to :

Australia
Hong Kong
Japan
Canada
Moscow
South Africa
LAX
Seattle
San Francisco
New Zealand
South America
China

and also strengthen its routes in the middle east region.


But I think that they will not be doing regional flight in the future and just stick to further international routes like the ones listed above and other current routes. The reason is that lots of privately owned low fare airlines have appeared in the Middle East lately and they are taking over short hauls with a good rate of successes.



Captain





[Edited 2004-11-29 05:20:28]


the sky is the limit.............actually FL410 is the limit
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2563 times:

Well my friend times are changing and hopefully so is KU so having a multi fleet type like the one u subscribe for them will never happen. The fleet structure that u have proposed for KU would be suicidal for them in the short term and long term!!!

You will see either the A 332 or B 7E7s replacing both AB6s and A 310s!!!

Now as far as your destinations go :

Australia - NO...too much competition against EK-GF-QR
Hong Kong - MAYBE...especially freighter flights!!!
Japan - MAYBE
Canada - DEFINITELY
Moscow - NO
South Africa - NO
LAX - DEFINITELY
Seattle - NEVER
San Francisco - MAYBE
New Zealand - NEVER
South America - NEVER
China - DEFINITELY


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2545 times:

Behramjee.......thaks for the information....at least I was 1/2 right regarding the desis!!!

That would be a shame if KU ended ORD...however, if true, and with rumours of EK coming into ORD (eventually/possibly), I could see EK doing well there and taking business from other carriers...

What's interesting is, I just came back from a restaurant here in Chicago (infamous "Devon Avenue") and I was reading the local Pakistani paper, and one ad hyped EK's A340-500 from JFK to KHI via DXB (and a photo of the A340-500 was present)..another ad was for PIA's new 777-200 to Karachi/Lahore and the ad stated there was NO plane changing....just get on the plane in ORD and get off in KHI...which to me is good advertising....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2520 times:

Yes that is good advertising on PIAs behalf but whilst I was in CX Marketing Dept this summer and was making few ads promoting Thailand pkgs and fares to key CX cities in US-Far East etc, I insisted on promoting the destination with the fare or all inclusive package value + number of weekly frequencies as I find an airline's advertisment promoting a city or package deal without a PRICE TAG simply boring!!! Luckily I got my way  Big grin

PIA have reduced their Houston flights to only once a week in off season but will revert to 2 weekly B 777s from Dec. They are not at all doing well with loads to IAH and I wont be surprised if this city becomes a summer/winter peak seasonal route only or gets suspended and replaced by LAX via China or MAN from PAK.


25 Horus : "personally" this is how I would like to see KU's future fleet 777-200's (more) 777-300's 737-NG's A330-200's A330-300's A340-500's A340-600's A320181
26 Behramjee : In response to your fleet suggestions Capt777... 777-200's (more)...YES 777-300's...NEVER 737-NG's...NEVER A330-200's...YES A330-300's...NEVER NOT NEE
27 Jsnww81 : As a Chicago resident, I certainly hope we keep KU. They add a very nice 'international' flavor to the airport. It's a lot of fun to visit Terminal 5
28 Captain777 : Hey Horus How is it going long time no see ( and no the AW issue will be available in Kuwait tomorrow ! ) "Australia - NO...too much competition again
29 Horus : They do operate the A340 and 777 together now, why wouldn't they in the future You'll see you tomorrow... Horus
30 Behramjee : R. Bharathan, the airline's district sales manager in India, told a news conference in Hyderabad on Monday that Qatar Airways's highest yielding secto
31 SR 103 : R. Bharathan, the airline's district sales manager in India, told a news conference in Hyderabad on Monday that Qatar Airways's highest yielding secto
32 Post contains links Horus : Captain777, I'm assuming by now that your read the article...if not read no further..... ...as the article suggested the fleet modernisation programme
33 Stealthpilot : A lot of people have talked about how good an airline KU is so I feel quite bad saying this, but most of the people I know agree with me that it’s,
34 SR 103 : Stealthpilot, I agree with you while I would not go so far as to say “they are not good,” I certainly do not find them to be anything special. Som
35 Post contains images Behramjee : Its BOM not MUM LOL Since 2001, Ive flown KU every May and August ORD-AMS-KWI-KHI and KHI/ISB-KWI-AMS-ORD so 7 trips in total and all in Eco class out
36 Post contains images Captain777 : KU is not the airline it was in the 80's anymore. In the 80's it was "the" airline in the middle east just like EK now. But back then when KU were the
37 Captain777 : Horus The article that you gave a link to up there, does'nt say that KU will be leasing aircrafts. Or does it ?? Because frankly I did'nt understand w
38 Post contains images Vimanav : A thread on KU and I happen to be travelling... what a shame for me to miss this one!! If this new KU route via GVA to ORD doesnt do well in its first
39 Beijing21 : Actually I was waiting for you to read your remarks. It happens after many opinions were shared. I'm personnaly interested how they do with their flig
40 Horus : Captain777, in the AW article they state the airline will lease (and not purchase) the aircraft. They said that ILFC or GECAS where obvious leasors to
41 Behramjee : Vimanav...interesting observations...in the latest AW Dec 04 magazine, your Chairman states that KU is going to convert in the future (2006) its 3 A 3
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