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Sure Would Be Nice If AS Had A Widebody  
User currently offlineFlybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4925 times:

With AS's direct flights to several Eastern US cities, including Miami, Boston and New York/Newark, it sure would be nice to have a bigger plane to ride on. Are there even any thoughts within AS to get maybe a 762 (like CO did), or maybe a nice new 7e7!




Heia Norge!
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12103 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4876 times:
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Let me ask this, WHY? Every new plane type they introduce to the fleet costs $$$$$, something a lot of airlines, including AS are watching very closely!


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4864 times:

I never understood why AS never made a play for SEA-NRT as it has changed hands a few times. Also SEA-LGW/FRA.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4831 times:

I never understood why AS never made a play for SEA-NRT

Very few LoCos have initiated transoceanic intercontinental service and lived to tell about it.

AS and HP are two of the rare exceptions, and I rather doubt they plan to repeat that any time soon.


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4810 times:

While, in theory, an AS widebody sounds good, the truth is that AS really does not need larger aircraft for its current route system. As does well with its 737/NG/MD80 fleet - with the "smaller" aircraft, they offer lots of frequency on business routes which makes AS popular with high-fare business travellers, also, the use of smaller aircraft allows AS to shift capacity to where its needed. Alaska's route system has seasonality - more service to Mexico in the Winter and increased service to Alaska in the summer. Flexibility is a good thing.

Routes like LAX-SEA and SEA-ANC, routes that could probably support a widebody, have many departures per day - increasing aircraft size would cut back the number of flights. AS's newer transcons out of SEA show a profit because only because smaller aircraft are used - 767s are not needed for these routes (especially in the winter), again, AS would rather offer 2 737s per day beween SEA-BOS than one 767 as demand increases - more connections, more choice, more passengers. While AS does offer a good number of connections at SEA, its not a huge hub, and due to SEA's geographical location, it can never be developed into a mega connection center such as Dallas or Chicago......after flying from ORD to SEA, connections on to Alaska and some Pacific Northwest cities are all that really make sense - no one but a price oriented low-yeild pax would consider flying ORD-SEA-LAX for example.

As for SEA-NRT, AS elected to stay out of the long range international game for several reasons, first, the need for larger aircraft, second, when the SEA-NRT route authority was bouncing around, AS did not have adequate feed at SEA to support the route, third, long-time partner NW flies the route, and lastly AS simply did not want to take the risk. AS has also stayed out of the Hawaii market - AS could certainly have tried SEA/PDX/ANC-Hawaii flights - but they have elected not to in order to avoid risk, huge competition, and to isntead focus on the pacific coast and the development of domestic service out of SEA.

AS did place an order for one 747 plus one option about a zillion years ago, the order was cancelled, AS determined that it did not need and could not afford such a large aircraft. They were right. Boeing also tried to convince AS to take the 757, again AS passed and went with the 739. I really dont think that we will see anything larger than a 739 in AS colors for the foreseeable future.


User currently offlineFlybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4755 times:

Luv2fly - Why? Because on long flights across the continental US it is more comfortable to fly a larger plane. Besides, I believe the SEA-MIA flight has certain restrictions since it is so close to the limit for a 737NG.
If AS is serious about its continental US expansion, I think it should have bigger and more comfortable planes.
I see your point about purchasing planes simply to make for a comfortable flight doesn't make sense, but if the expansion keeps going, I would think AS could easily fill a 7e7 (and how cool would it be if AS was the first US airliner to get the 7e7 - considering AS is based out of Seattle).
Of course, the upgrade to a wide-body would have to make financial sense, and if the expansion to the East Coast continues, I would think there is a chance for a larger planes.
Also something to consider, a 736 has a very small first-class section. With a 767 or a 7e7, AS could gain more revenue from passengers flying first class. I realize there is a problem with that theory since first class is commonly used when people cash-in mileage.



Heia Norge!
User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4742 times:
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As already said, why would they by a plane that would not fit in with the rest of the system. You dont see WN jumping into wides just because the money losers have them.


Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineFlybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4691 times:

WN and AS are two different types of airlines. AS uses the more traditional hub system, so a larger plane could be a good match.
As I also said, IF they keep growing, a wide-body would possibly be a good match.
If expansion continues, a larger plane would likely fit the rest of the system, as you put it.

Also, are you saying airlines like UA or AA are loosing money because the fly larger planes? I would think the traditional airlines are loosing money because they are oversized and not run efficiently. I don't think the size of the plane as much as the size of the fleet is the issue.
I would think that flying one wide-body is more efficient than flying two single-aisle 737's.



Heia Norge!
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4667 times:

Also something to consider, a 736 has a very small first-class section. With a 767 or a 7e7, AS could gain more revenue from passengers flying first class. I realize there is a problem with that theory since first class is commonly used when people cash-in mileage.

Just a correction in your facts, AS does NOT have any 736's. In the 737 family they have: 732 Combis, 734s, 73Gs (737-700s), 738s (4 on order), and 739s.

And in response to the rest of the thread, widebodies just aren't needed. I have flown almost all of the US domestic carriers, and let me tell you, AS is far and away my favorite! They absolutely blow away the competition! The are the best US carrier in my opinion.

One further point: AS is not a LCC by any measure, but they're also not a traditional/legacy carrier. They are what I consder more of a niche carrier that borrows from each of the 2 other models. And they've filled their niche role well, so why change what isn't broken?

Steve


User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12103 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4606 times:
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The argument about a wide body being more comfortable then a narrow body is perception on your part. Half if not more of the traveling public have no idea what type of plane they are traveling on. And last I looked WN most certainly hubs there fights.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineBronko From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 810 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4570 times:

Very few LoCos have initiated transoceanic intercontinental service and lived to tell about it.

Alaska Airlines is not an LLC.

At least, I don't think they are, nor have I seen them referred as such before. What is the threshold for LLC/Mainline etc?



Jet City Aviation Photography
User currently offline737-990 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 365 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4546 times:

It's interesting that while you suggest a widebody would be preferred on a transcon flight a lot of US carriers are replacing their domestic widebody fleets with narrowbody aircraft. United is the latest removing it's 767-200s from transcon markets and replacing them with 757s in a 2-class config. Continental mainly uses 737NGs and 757s for it's transcons out of EWR. AmericaWest is using the A319 for new eastcoast markets form California and lets not mention JetBlue with its A320s. Due to so much competition on these markets airlines the trend is against widebodies with their higher operating cost.

Alaska currently hasn't even expressed interest in any widebody aircraft. I think that in a few years the 737-800 with winglets will be the mainstay of the fleet, replacing current MD-80s and 737-400s, and it should have any problems making the SEA-MCO/MIA nonstops.



Happiest is a man who has his vocation as a hobby
User currently offlineWeAreUnited From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 423 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4487 times:

United is the latest removing it's 767-200s from transcon markets and replacing them with 757s in a 2-class config.

United is replacing with reconfigured 3-class 757's. It is their new premium service (nicknamed p.s.). There a quite a few threads about it.... some with pics.


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4371 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4418 times:

"Luv2fly - Why? Because on long flights across the continental US it is more comfortable to fly a larger plane."

Since when? Comfort depends less on the size of a plane than on how an airline chooses to configure the cabin. A 737 with a 32-33" pitch in Y will be more comfortable than a 777 with 31" pitch, for example.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineJet1977 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4402 times:

This is more of a Technical Question.
I am wondering if an AS B738/9 become ETOPS rated, could they fly from ANC to NRT?
I belivieve that it is only a 4 hour flight between the two cities.


User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26450 posts, RR: 75
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4367 times:

I am sure you meant LCC (low cost carrier) and not LLC (Limited Liability Corporation). AS is really the last of the true regional carriers, in the mold of Hughes Airwest, PSA and AirCal. Even AS has started flying transcons, but has limited their service to a few flights to SEA or LAX. What we call regionals now are what we used to call commuters and fly smaller planes (though that has changed too).


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2447 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4349 times:

ANC-NRT is more like 6 hours or so if I remember right. I flew that on a JAL 747 about 13 years ago if I remember right...


You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4310 times:

As for SEA-NRT, as long as NW flies it, AS can't fly it.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2900 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4307 times:
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AS has done a good job to not need widebodies since they're network whores (in a good way)...

NRT comes courtesy of NW.
Europe comes courtesy of KLM-Air France.
Besides their own East Coast flights, they have lots of codeshares with AA/DL/CO/NW.

So why, again, would they want their own metal on these routes?


User currently offlineFlybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4286 times:

I prefer widebodies for a few reasons:
1 - Two isles make for easier moving around the plane. Long flights mean more trips to the bathroom or just getting up and moving around.
2 - Speaking of bathrooms. There are more of them.
3 - Less likely to be completely full (just more seats).
4 - Usually a bigger plane is better through turbulence.

As to the comment that most people don't know what kind of plane they are flying on, I would agree. I've had people tell me they flew on a 747 from SEA to EWR on AS!!
However, I'm an enthusiast, so I have a different perspective on what I like to fly on. Also, I have found that most business travelers that a lot are pretty aware of what they fly on.

So, let me pose the question. If AS gave you the choice of a 777 and a 737NG to fly from SEA to MIA. Which would honestly pick??



Heia Norge!
User currently offlineCactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2447 posts, RR: 31
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4271 times:

Your reason 3 doesn't make sense to me.

"Less likely to be completely full"

Why would they want to fly a plane that wasn't full? If a 738 is big enough, why would they want a 777?

To answer your questions, I'd pick the 737 flight. Mostly because by the time it was time for my trip, they'd have had to park the 777 cuz they were losing money on it.




You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineGreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1101 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4269 times:

Your reasons for a widebody are the reasons why AS don't want a widebody!

I would pick the AS 737-NG.



Now you're really flying
User currently offlineJafa From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 782 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4264 times:

Getting a new aircraft type because its cool is not a good business decision. The narrowboby planes AS has suits thier routes very well.

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4245 times:

I have often thought that AS missed the boat when it came to the 757. I am not an airline employee of any sorts, just a VVFF, and I wouldn't want to second guess AS management. . . having said that I think AS would have done well with ANC-OGG/LIH/HNL on a 757. I will not fly AS transcon simply because I don't want to be strapped into a 737 for more than an hour or two. There's no mistaking that I am a "bus" fan, but I have nothing in particular against a Boeing. It's the AS aircraft I don't like . . . no IFE, tight seat pitch for a transcon aircraft (in F where I usually fly). I see no need for them to compete internationally, their code share/marketing agreements with CO, NW and AA can handle that. But I would agree, get some other aircraft to make those transcons from SEA to MCO, MIA, IAD and DCA; and the ANC-ORD run. A 737 simply isn't the hot ticket for that . . . .

User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4224 times:

"Routes like LAX-SEA and SEA-ANC, routes that could probably support a widebody, have many departures per day - increasing aircraft size would cut back the number of flights."

Exactly... While I wasn't around for it, from the history it seems that PSA made this mistake with the "Mother Grinningbird" (aka L-1011), where not only did frequency drop, but "it took as long to load and unload as it did to actually fly the route"

From what I understand, that cost PSA some serious money trying widebodies from on similar routes, something airlines REALLY can't afford to do right now.

Or so I've read...

Lincoln




CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
25 ClassicLover : Regarding a widebody for longer flights, it's all down to personal preference and how the cabin is configured. I did transcontinental in Australia on
26 Luv2fly : Two aisles mean easier to move around, well not if you have carts blocking both aisles. More bathrooms yes that is true though you also have more pass
27 Luv2fly : Also AS does offer and have IFE on its flights.
28 ANCFlyer : AS IFE consists of those sillly little hand held movie gizmos . . . that's not IFE, that's cheap imitation . . . when I say IFE, I mean seat back, mus
29 Post contains images Ei2ksea : Keep it small, keep it toit (Goldmember style ). Look at AS and the fab long thin routes they have with the B737NG and with their new B738's the oppor
30 Luv2fly : From the Alaska web site What's a digEplayer? The digEplayer is a convenient handheld device which uses video-on-demand technology to deliver a spectr
31 NWADC9 : AS was going to be one of the first customers for the 747 when it came out, as well as obtaining routes to Europe, but they couldn't get the routes, s
32 Post contains images Airliner777 : Just a question... Would Alaska Airlines ever get winglets for their B737NG fleet?
33 Greaser : Airliner777, i believe their 737-800s come with winglets, but not sure
34 Mauilono : Yes, winglets will be installed on all 73G aircraft, first will be N619AS. Should see it flying with them by December 20th. We are also replacing our
35 EA CO AS : AS IFE consists of those sillly little hand held movie gizmos . . . that's not IFE, that's cheap imitation . . . when I say IFE, I mean seat back, mus
36 LN-MOW : Handhelds are the future. AA and KLM are among the airlines trying them out, and you'll see more come along as the selection widens. And as we will se
37 Flybynight : Are the digEplayers available in coach? Some people are too serious here. Of course I don't suggest that AS should buy widebodies just for "shits & gi
38 Avek00 : "I must say, though, I am amazed at how many people would prefer to fly on a 737 over say, a 767 on a 6 hour flight." At the end of the day, it's NOT
39 LN-MOW : I flew SEA-MCO on AS' 739 a couple of months back, and I prefer them to e.g. DL's 767's any day of the week ..... Better seatpich, nicer colors, more
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