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Run-In With A Cop At BFI  
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6671 times:

OK guys.. check out this BS: I was in Seattle for an interview on Tuesday (the 23rd), and had some time to burn before meeting another a.netter for lunch. So I decided to go down to BFI for a while and watch the arrivals/departures (double bonus because I had SEA arrivals overhead!  Big thumbs up). Anyway, I was sitting in a public parking lot, just south of the control tower on the west side of BFI, and this unmarked blue Explorer rolls up and parks behind and to the left of me for like 20 minutes. He was staring at me, and running my license plate number and whatever. Then he comes over and asks for ID because I guess sitting in a public parking lot watching planes take off/land is "suspicious". Can you believe that crap? I mean.. I was pissed. I produced my Boeing ID and asked the officer what on earth could be suspicious. I mean, I was just sitting in my car, occassionally getting out to get a better view of the SEA arrivals above me.

Argh.. so mad!  Angry Why has our hobby/passion become a crime or a reason to be suspected of being a "terrorist"!?! Just leave us alone you bastards!!!

Steve

78 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9629 posts, RR: 68
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6602 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

which parking lot were you in? If it was to the north of the tower that is a no-no. And are you sure it was a Ford Explorer, and not a blue GMC Yukon (Blazer)?

I just reread your post, I see that you were in the south lot.

I hope you were at least professional (unlike your post here).

[Edited 2004-11-29 01:45:02]

User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6586 times:

yes.. it was the parking lot just SOUTH of the Tower, and it was a blue Ford Explorer. It was a King County Sheriff's deputy (in plain clothes, I asked to see his badge), that was harassing me. Once I produced my Boeing ID, he left me alone for the most part. (He still sat and watched me for a while.)

[Edited 2004-11-29 01:47:07]

User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6566 times:

One suggestion if you want to spot at BFI is to use the parking lot at the Museum of Flight, which is right adjacent to the field. As long as you're unobtrusive, you should not attract a lot of paranoia. Alternatively you might also try the east end of the field using the parimiter road paralleling Airport Way S. The view is more restricted, but there is the bonus of a couple of airplane shops to boot.

Hope this doesn't scare you away from SEA entirely, and I hope you do get the job here.

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6558 times:

It seems you wern't"run" so I guess things worked out.
I am NOT defending the overzealous cops but they do have a job to do. If he was convinced you were not a bad guy and left you there then ...so what?
I have been questioned a few times and run a few time but mostly for rail-fanning than around an airport.
At DTW or the parking deck at ORD, you WILL GET RUN...no questions asked, just get going, bud...
I have watched planes at Boeing field even when Clinton and Air Force One popped in.
No one was run....all people there were given the once over by the secret service minutes before the plane landed, but not told to leave.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9629 posts, RR: 68
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6551 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

its just an odd story Steve, as I hang out with fellow spotters and photogs several times a week in this lot, sometimes with as many as 8 cars in a bunch, plus the usual 3-5 cars of random people sitting there watching the traffic.

User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6550 times:

Oh Charles, I'm a local. I live down in Maple Valley. I just don't get into the city as much since I work in Renton. Anyway.. I did check out Airport Road on the eastern side (by the Aviator's Store), and I've been to the Museum of Flight previously. The MoF parking lot is pretty good, but it's just too far south. That spot where I was at was great because it was at the perfect spot to catch a G-V rotating right in front of me, and I saw a BEAUTIFUL Citation X landing with thrust reversers deployed. That was my main criteria for where I was at, it was better located then the MoF parking lot.

Steve


User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6532 times:

Yeah Royal.. it was odd to me too. I've been there a few times previously, and I thought I remembered seeing on the SEA Spotter webpage that this is one of your favorite spots.

So I'm still trying to figure out, if people spot there that often, and it's public place, why was he harassing me?

Steve


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9619 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6513 times:

The Museum of Flight is a good place to stare at planes from because no one will bother you. It is perfectly normal for people to stand at the fence and watch for long periods of time and security there does not care at all. I have never had problems at BFI. Usually the only cops around are the Boeing security ones since it is a general aviation airport. I feel sorry for you being stopped, but the area near the control tower is not a good place. There are cops around there all the time. You are right about MoF being too far south though. Has anyone ever tried spotting at the terminal on the east side of the field? I have been there, but never for any period of time.

[Edited 2004-11-29 01:59:00]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6511 times:

Also Royal... just as a side note. I'm saving up for a good camera right now.. so when I have the $$$, I'm interesting in join you and some of the other local spotters for some time at BFI/SEA, maybe grab a bite to eat or whatever. I'll be in touch to see when/where you guys are getting together.

Steve


User currently offlineJfkaua From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1000 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6503 times:

i know its probably fustrating.. but look at it this way.. say your the cop and you see a guy looking closley at the way aircraft arrive and depart and the paths and where they pass over... imagine you don't say anything and the next day you see on the news that a arriving 747 was shot down out of that parking lock out of the back of the same car that you saw... you would of wished you at least just went over their and made sure nothing suspicious was going on... i mean i know its hard but whenever you get pissed at what someones doing... put your self in their shoes and pretend to know only what they would.. and then see what decision you would make...

User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6500 times:

Sorry for the mix-up Steve. I forgot you live in the area...

On a separate note, if you ever get the opportunity to attend a function at the MoF, by all means do it. We hosted an international gathering of airport chaplains at the MoF which included dinner in their 3rd floor function room which includes an unobstructed view of the south end of the field and doors to an outside balcony where I spent the majority of my time. During the evening we had the opportunity to watch a number of the cargo aircraft including Airbourne 767's ATI and DHL DC-8's and UPS 757's taking off to the north. It was an opportunity I don't get anymore to watch movements from such a good vantage point.

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6486 times:

As far as photography goes.. would they have a problem if I sat on top of my car (a little red '88 Camry) to get shots from over the top of the fence?

User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6444 times:

say your the cop and you see a guy looking closley at the way aircraft arrive and depart and the paths and where they pass over...

there's nothing secret about aircraft arrival patterns--they're published by the FAA.....

BCAInfoSys , this has been happening all over this country for 3+ years. There are scores of threads on this board of stories just like this. Hopefully someday enthusiasts won't be viewed as suspected terrorists.



Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6439 times:

As far as photography goes.. would they have a problem if I sat on top of my car (a little red '88 Camry) to get shots from over the top of the fence?

Well, er, there's only one way to find out...  Laugh out loud

Charles, SJ

[Edited 2004-11-29 02:13:32]


The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9629 posts, RR: 68
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6436 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

you dont need a camera to come hang out  Smile

User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26450 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6433 times:

Quite frankly, I think you did everything right and the cop everything wrong. It gets really annoying when you get some scared of everything hick cop or a wannabe Super cop (or security guard) trying to push you around because they have a gun. Good on you for not folding to this guy and keeping your spot.


Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6410 times:

Alright Royal. What are the general patterns you guys tend to stick to? Any particular times or locations? I assume it's usually more during the warmer months? (As the Nov/Dec drizzle doesn't do much for photography.. lol)

Feel free to e-mail me or IM me.

Steve

AIM: SteveAtUSU
MSN: shetzel@cc.usu.edu
E-mail: steve.hetzel@gmail.com


User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6380 times:

What really happened? It's hard to tell from the original post.

Was the cop rude or unprofessional in anyway? If he just asked for your ID and asked what you were doing I'd hardly say you were "harassed"


User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6361 times:

SATL382G... it was just his attitude and his arrogance. He was just some 2-bit thug with a gun who felt the need to harass and (attempt to) initimidate citizens, to compensate for his (lack of) manhood. When he first came up to the car, he just rudely asked me what my business was and if I was causing any trouble. I politely told him that I was on public property, I was interested in aviation and I was just watching aircraft. He said that it would probably be a good idea for me to get moving along, to which I responded that unless this was private poperty (which I knew it wasn't), or unless I was given a compelling reason, I would choose to stay where I was for another 20 minutes or so.

It wasn't in what he said, it was how he said it. He automatically assumed that I was "out to cause trouble" or whatnot. It perturbed me that he jumped to conclusions about me when I thought aircraft spotting was a pretty common occurance. He just seemed like one of these guys that liked to harass people to feel better about himself.  Angry

If he had been polite and unassuming about the whole matter, I wouldn't have had a problem with the whole affair. His attitude just instantly put me on the defensive when I didn't feel that I had any reason to be defensive about the matter.

Steve

[Edited 2004-11-29 02:32:33]

User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6292 times:

Sorry to hear about your incident, but as SATL382G says, it hardly sounds like harassment. As far as the percieved "attitude", being authoritative is one of the first things they cover in police academy. Railfans have had a much harder time of it since 9/11 as well. Do be aware that even if you're on public property, the police can still tell you to move along, since many municipalities have anti-loitering laws. Mostly they are not enforced as law enforcement percieves it to be poor use of available manpower. Railfans not only have to contend with local police, but private police forces maintained by the individual railroad companies. The reason I say police forces is that they are officially recognized law enforcement agencies with sworn officers, who are empowered to make arrests and investigate crimes that occur on railroad property. Unlike private security, in most states they may conduct vehicle pursuits as long as the offense involved occurred on railroad property and they are allowed to use marked and unmarked police units. Get on the wrong side of a special agent and you'd think your Washington cop was "Officer Friendly."

[Edited 2004-11-29 03:43:14]


"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9629 posts, RR: 68
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6269 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

to fully understand how odd this story is you need some background info.

The parking lot in question is used by people from all walks of life to watch aircraft, eat lunch, take a nap in your car, etc etc.

It is in clear view of the BFI control tower, as well as the Airport Police station (staffed by the King County Sheriffs Office).

The police patrol the lot at all times, both airside and on the public side. Something just doesn't add up. Perhaps someone called the police on Steve, and they felt the need to follow up.


User currently offlineCopter808 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1085 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6232 times:

It sounds to me like he was just doing his job. Your attitude sounds like it was a bit out of line too under the circumstances.

I've read your post 3 times now, and I still don't see what the problem was. You were sitting on public property, on or near an airport, paying particular attention to the activity on the airport. Suspicious? Depends on what each party is thinking. Your activity certainly does NOT appear suspicious ONCE THE FACTS ARE KNOWN! All the officer was trying to do was find out the facts.

It has been my experience that MOST of the time when an officer has contact with someone they think he is overbearing or coming on too strong, regardless of how polite he may be.

Let's face it, most people--myself included--don't like to have their activities questioned by someone in authority, We have to realize though things are different after 9/11. I also have to wonder how you made the determination that he was "a two bit thug" and how you knew anything about his manhood!

You were questioned because the officer was looking for answers. Your answers and attitude determine his next step. (Do they make sense?) If your answers did not sound plausible, there would be a whole lot more questions.

The officer did his job by observing you, asking a few questions, and apparently satisfied by your answers, left you alone.

What do YOU think he should have done under the circumstances?


User currently offlineSquad55 From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6201 times:

Steve;

Maybe he asked you like that to get a rise out of you... Therefore he knows you are telling the truth??

I would not call him a thug or less of a man. That man lays down his life for our safety every single day....... He is doing his job.. He is doing a job that puts him in potential danger at any moment. You cannot expect him to be understanding because you are an airplane spotter. Maybe he doesn't' know anything or care about aviation. I have an interest in Law Enforcement and have spent many hours on ride a longs in the BFI area. I take his behavior as normal, he was just doing his job.


User currently offlineBIGBlack From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 600 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6144 times:

I would rather have that happen then to have no one care what you were doing at all. It is good to know there are people on the job who care about our security. Times have changed


Someone special in the air
25 BR715-A1-30 : I would have done the same thing...EXCEPT FOR ONE DETAIL... Had I been the cop, I would have asked you to get out of the car, and struck a conversatio
26 767ALLTHEWAY : I feel that the officer in this situation was in the right. I cant comment on his "attitude" but he was doing his job. We all know that post 9/11 ever
27 ANCFlyer : BCAInfoSys: "yes.. it was the parking lot just SOUTH of the Tower, and it was a blue Ford Explorer. It was a King County Sheriff's deputy (in plain cl
28 Itsjustme : As an employee in the airline industry, I would think you'd appreciate the diligence of an officer trying to protect the safety of airliners. But inst
29 N1120a : >As an employee in the airline industry, I would think you'd appreciate the diligence of an officer trying to protect the safety of airliners. But ins
30 Itsjustme : Second, harassing someone in a public parking lot who is obviously not holding a weapon or attacking anyone is just that, harrassing them And the offi
31 N1120a : >And the officer would be able to determine these things how? By ESP? Osmosis? Consulting a fortune teller? Getting out his trusty crystal ball? Noooo
32 Itsjustme : Hmm, take one look at the guy and see that he is not carrying a bazooka or rocket launcher. They are kind of hard to miss. Yeah, OK. I think someone f
33 ANCFlyer : N1120a: "There is no dilligence here. First off, the only airliners at BFI are the ones that are being built. Second, harassing someone in a public pa
34 N1120a : >Yeah, OK. I think someone forgot to take their medication today.
35 ANCFlyer : Itsjustme: Yeah, OK. I think someone forgot to take their medication today. Agree 100 percent - him and Mr. Boeing (BCAInfoSys) both need some Ridalin
36 N1120a : >Agree 100 percent - him and Mr. Boeing (BCAInfoSys) both need some Ridalin or a Darvon or something . . . .
37 Itsjustme : N1120a.....seriously....you and BCAInfoSys gotta lighten up a little bit. Like it or not, a lone person sitting in a parking lot, public or otherwise,
38 767ALLTHEWAY : "Hmm, take one look at the guy and see that he is not carrying a bazooka or rocket launcher. They are kind of hard to miss." Well, correct me if im wr
39 FLY2LIM : I am always amazed at some of the "geniuses" that post on a.net. Yes, there was someone with a very serious attitude problem, but this time it was not
40 Ctbarnes : Yes, America is paranoid and for good reason. I disagree. Reasoned, anticipatory strategies and accurate intelligence are far more effective than the
41 Pilotaydin : look it's just unfortunate....the cop did his job, and the poster was trying to do his job by being an avid aviation enthusiast... perhaps they did or
42 BigOrange : BCAInfoSys You should try spotting here in NY then you'd know what hassle was! You just gotta live with it and realize that the guys are just doing th
43 AA777 : I had a similar experience at DCA. I was very very mad.... best thing to do is to keep on going and ignore these experiences as much as u can. Some co
44 ScarletHarlot : I've met Steve, and he is a good dude. I would be frustrated by the situation as well. It doesn't hurt for the cop to ask politely what the deal is. N
45 LN-MOW : The cops at BFI are generally nice. I pulled over by the UPS terminal this morning to get a pic of a parked MD11 and a police car passed by as I jumpe
46 FLY2LIM : A.netters live by the belief that everyone should be comfortable with their habit (hobby, past time, whatever) of spotting. As such, the seem to belie
47 Post contains images Ctbarnes : are you working at SEA on Sunday? I'm flying out to IAH around 1, and would love to say hello. Unfortunately Thursday and Saturday are my airport days
48 N1120a : >You obviously haven't been to BFI, because if you had, you see it's on the approach to SEA. Oh, and ahhhh, not to mention BFI being an active field,
49 Clickhappy : for anyone interested we are planning a large get together on Wednesday, several people well know to this website are visiting, along with us usual su
50 Aviationwiz : Had I been the cop, I would have done the same thing, asked for some ID maybe, ask you what you were doing, etc. I would have however made it more of
51 Post contains images BCAInfoSys : Alright guys.. after I had some time to vent a little steam and get some perspective on the matter, I realize it really wasn't that big a deal. It jus
52 Access-Air : Okay guys, Rude behaviour by ANY authority figure no matter the circumstances is very distressing. Whether they understand what we are doing or not I
53 Itsjustme : Access-Air writes: I am so tired of hearing the phrase "after 9/11"......Frankly who cares Oh, I'd venture to say the family members and loved ones of
54 767ALLTHEWAY : I am so tired of hearing the phrase "after 9/11"......Frankly who cares That’s amazing, that an American citizen can say that, I find it appalling a
55 VSMike : Pulhhhhhease... Get over yourselves. Airline spotting, watching, photographing, reg. writing, fuel-sniffing (or even window licking) is not a crime. A
56 Itsjustme : Get over yourselves. Airline spotting, watching, photographing, reg. writing, fuel-sniffing (or even window licking) is not a crime. I must have misse
57 Jonathan L : I didn't see Access-Air demeaning the 3000 lifes lost on 9/11, he was simply pointing out that a lot of civil liberties are floating away thanks to th
58 Itsjustme : I didn't see Access-Air demeaning the 3000 lifes lost on 9/11 I think anytime one uses the words "who cares" in conjunction with "9/11" as Access-Air
59 VSMike : Itsjustme, Time to familiarize yourself with an "implication"... Re-reading the post, and the speculations, might make it clearer... You're too cute V
60 Airlinelover : Had I been the cop, I would have asked you to get out of the car, and struck a conversation with you... That is the best way to tell whether or not so
61 N317AS : Getting back to the subject, some of us are well aware that a certain operator (CL) on the east side of the runway has been talking about getting the
62 Post contains images Bahadir : BCAInfoSys, at least you were not like me , a guy with an accent. During my contract work with Boeing, I spent a lot of time in that parking lot, at t
63 Jetpixx : This same thing happened to me in Pittsburgh once. I was just minding my own business, taking photos in January. It was a snowy day, which I figured w
64 Access-Air : I guess in my defense I had better say that I should have my "Who Cares" a bit differently. However what I am saying is that I am tired of everyone us
65 Post contains images 767ALLTHEWAY : Access-Air, As I re-read my post It does look more harsh than I intended and would even go to say that my flag comment would be somewhat undeserved fo
66 Itsjustme : Access-Air.....I concur with 767ALLTHEWAY and admit that my comments directed at you were too harsh as well (so much for counting to 10 before replyin
67 Bluewave 707 : What spotter hasn't been checked out by law enforcement? Here @ HNL, there's the private contract security firm Securitas and the Hawaii Sheriff's Dep
68 Lnglive1011yyz : I think it's the same everywhere you go. The stickler is that most cities / municipalities have by-laws against loitering in public places. Unfortunat
69 Gilesdavies : The UK is no better! I was at LTN spotting in an area around the back of Runway 26/8 near the emergency vehicle access pint and was a really nice late
70 Flyabunch : Many times on business trips to Seattle, I will have some free time. I just about always choose to park and watch either at Boeing Field or Renton. I
71 Access-Air : Hey itsjustme and 767ALLTHE WAY.... Apology accepted...no hard feelings... We all are pretty tired of being harrassed as it would be, even pre 9/11...
72 Flybynight : You guys have a map of where you actually hang out and spot. I live in Sammamish, but I work in downtown Seattle, so I do try to stop down to Boeing F
73 Clickhappy : check out www.seaspotter.com
74 Post contains images Ordflyer : Oh by the way, I think there is some sort of unwritten law that says it is ILLEGAL to take pictures out the windows of OHare and Midway Airports!!!! W
75 Post contains images Juanchopancho : They ran my ID last Sunday in Detroit. It was no big deal really, the cop had his lights going and everything, it was quite a scene. "Basically, the A
76 Post contains images Miamix707 : Some cops are just bored and have nothing better to do than to hassle people because they can. Lol, I love how taking pics is a dangerous thing.... Ju
77 WesternA318 : Out here in SLC, I've been run maybe once since after 9/11, but usually the cops know me now from spotting and seeeing me in terminals waiting for my
78 Post contains images Miamix707 : WesternA318 Funny, I know two guys who went to an area where it's not smart to be in at MIA, since you do look suspicious trying to sneak in by there
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