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Lion Air Crashes, Others Slipped Over The Past 48h  
User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6897 posts, RR: 76
Posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 14771 times:

Yesterday an Indonesian Air Force Hawk slipped in Pekanbaru Airport.

This afternoon a Bouraq 732 PK-IJH slipped off the runway in Ujung Pandang/Makassar (WAAA).

Just now, Lion MD82 PK-LMN slipped off the runway in Solo Airport upon landing.

Pictures from the TV shows the aircraft slipped offto the right of the runway onto a graveyard. Airplane is a write off, fuselage broken, nosewheel detached. Some deaths...

For those who believed that Lion's an accident waiting to happen, well, today's the day...

Let's see what their PR machine will churn out to the public tomorrow.

Condolences to the victim's families.

PK-KAR



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMiaskies From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1347 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 14626 times:

This is the post I read according to the ASSOCIATED PRESS (AP):


Up to 6 Killed in Indonesia Plane Crash

World - AP Asia


JAKARTA, Indonesia - A Lion Air passenger plane skidded off a runway in central Indonesia and split into two pieces Tuesday, and local media reported that as many as six people were killed.

As many as 24 people also were injured, according to El Shinta radio.

The accident occurred at about 7 p.m. as the plane landed in Solo, a thriving tourist town about 310 miles southeast of the capital, Jakarta, the station said. Ambulances took the injured to nearby hospitals and rescuers were searching for survivors.

Lion Air is Indonesia's top budget airline and recently announced expansion plans. The airline said earlier this month it was buying as many as 25 new planes and expanding routes.




DO THEY JUST FLY MD 82's? What airplanes are they suppose to buy?







Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
User currently offlineStudentFlyer From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 688 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 14606 times:

According to the news received on TV, it is believed that the aircraft overran the runway, hitting the perimeter fence, onto the surrounding road before finally resting on the graveyard as Mandala499 mentioned. It is also known that some of the bodies recovered had been found in pieces. Latest news reported at least 8 deaths, but there are more bodies found.

It is still unclear whether the aircraft was departing or arriving, but it was reported that it is arriving into Solo City/Adi Sumarno, as a transit stop, from Jakarta/Soekarno Hatta, and accident happened at 06:15pm local time (UTC + 7). Flight number was JT538, bound for Surabaya/Juanda with 146 passengers on board (initial report).

Well, this really is an accident waiting to happen, as many of us do believe the 'below-standard' maintenance of Lion Air.

We'll keep you updated

Here's the site, but it's in Indonesian: http://jkt.detiknews.com/indexfr.php?url=http://jkt.detiknews.com/index.php/detik.read/tahun/2004/bulan/11/tgl/30/time/20748/idnews/247742/idkanal/10

Edit: Information about LionAir's fleet, as asked by Miaskies, they operate 19 MD-82, and 5 DHC 8-301.

Regards,
AK



[Edited 2004-11-30 14:41:33]

User currently offlineStudentFlyer From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 688 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 14523 times:

Latest news reported 10 fatalities, including one baby, and 23 injured. It is still unclear what caused the accident.

About the aircraft, according to the news, is 1 out of 10 MD-82s owned by Lion Air. The aircraft was believed to be manufactured in 1982.

Regards,
AK


User currently offlineGaruda From Indonesia, joined Nov 2000, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 14521 times:

Sorry, didn't see this thread before,

But I translated the news in the other thread :
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1841244/

Add the Air Force's Hawk 200 that belly landed in PKU yesterday... 3 in 36 hours...

JA


User currently offlineStudentFlyer From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 688 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 14461 times:

7LBAC111, yes there are fatalities from the incident, as the fuselage broke into pieces. One body was found with the feet separated. And yes there are pictures on that. It is not bodies found on the graveyard, although I know it is a little bit ironic.

Regards,
AK

[Edited 2004-11-30 15:35:05]

User currently offlineA340Spotter From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1981 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 14455 times:

Mandala499 (or anyone else)...

I don't have my acft database with me at work, but is -LMN ex CO and if so, which former reg.?

Thanks
Jeffrey



"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4330 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 14427 times:

PK-LMN was cn 49189/1173, with AeroMexico as XA-AMP since Dec84, to N189GE AFS Investments, then PK-LMN Lion Air Nov02. The aircraft was exactly 20 years old (manufacture date 13Nov84).
the aircraft in better days:
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © M Radzi Desa


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chris Coduto




nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineA340Spotter From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1981 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 14395 times:

Thanks MEA-707 for that update, much appreciated.

Jeffrey



"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
User currently offlineStudentFlyer From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 688 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 14263 times:

Latest figure says that there are now 16 fatalities from the crash. The plane had to be cut-up to retrieve bodies, because they are caught in the wreckage.

Regards,
AK


User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 14170 times:

I think its in the 20's now.

When you look at all the old junk flying around in Indonesia and airlines starting left, right and center you have to wonder how this did not happen before.


User currently offlineStudentFlyer From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 688 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 14142 times:

Just in, latest fatality figure has increased to 31. It is very unfortunate for those who did die, RIP. God bless their souls.

It is quite interesting to see that even with the number of junks flying around in Indonesia at the moment, I think it's more with luck that we often get away with in this country. For Lion, they think more of making revenue than maintaining their aircraft, and even after this incident/accident, I doubt that they will start to make note of the negative side of things.

Edit: It is now known that the Captain, Dwi M survived, but the Co-Pilot, Steven, did not.

Regards,
AK

[Edited 2004-11-30 17:19:50]

User currently offlineIDAWA From Italy, joined Aug 2004, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 14037 times:

Here is a picture of the wreckage



Source: http://www.ansa.it/main/notizie/awnplus/mondo/news/2004-11-30_3376707.html (Italian only)

Sad to hear of this. But does it look like an MD-82?? It doesn't seem a T-tail..maybe it has been messed up by the impact forces

I-DAWA.



Flown on: 319, 320, 321, 340, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, DC9, D10, M11, M80, 146, EM2, BEH, CRJ, DH8, L4T.
User currently offlineSPL From Netherlands, joined Sep 2003, 156 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 13977 times:

The picture in the post above is not from the Lion Air crash. See this link for a photo of the aircraft (article only in Dutch!).

http://www.telegraaf.nl


Groeten Martijn


User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6897 posts, RR: 76
Reply 14, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 13950 times:

OK, death toll now up to 31...

F/O is from Aruba just FYI...

Some witnesses now saying aircraft landed 1/2 way down the runway. Conflicting reports saying that it initiated a Go-Around too late and aircraft touched down and you know the rest...

BTW, Solo is NOT a thriving tourist town... they just got a bigger airport than Jogjakarta, where everyone go to... Only Silk Air (2x weekly), Lion (3x daily) and Garuda (3x daily) fly to Solo... Unlike JOG, which is quite busy with everyone.

Lion flies 19 MD82s on one of the last counts, and 2 734s...
Subsidiary Wings fly 3 DHC-8-300s... Rumours say they got 5.

They blew 1 DHC8 engine a couple of years back.
Their 732 crashed and got written off a couple of years back (2001?)

Their MD82s have problems... Rear airstairs keep falling down according to secondary sources. Lion has slipped many times off the runway here but the news normally gets covered up. This time, they can't... Plus one Lion engineer has been rumoured to refuse to fly on Lion due to their "maintenance policy"... Plus Lion lost their FedEx contract a while back due to failures in safety and security procedures.

This is an airline with many sins... Pilots fly 120hrs a month but only log 90... You don't land due to weather and expect the CEO to call you on your cellphone asking you to get your butt to the destination regardless of weather... etc etc etc... These are undocumentable events unfortunately, but go and take a couple of Lion guys to a bar, buy them drinks, and what comes out of their mouths sound like a real nightmare.

This is just an accident waiting to happen.

N754PR: When you look at all the old junk flying around in Indonesia and airlines starting left, right and center you have to wonder how this did not happen before.

Well, not the other airlines... There are some which are waiting to make a smoking hole in the ground, but mostly are safe, regardless of their aged fleet... Lion unfortunately are one of the few, and is the largest of that "few" I avoid.

I-DAWA: That isn't a picture of the crash. It hasn't been daylight since the accident happened. I wish I can grab the images on my TV and show you here instead.

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineSQNo1 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 687 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 13887 times:

Well Channelnewsasia.com says its 23 dead.

SQno1


User currently offlineIDAWA From Italy, joined Aug 2004, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 13858 times:

You are right, the source I relied upon was faulty! Strange, since it is the most important news-agency in Italy! However I admit my fault, suggest my own deletion and post a real picture of the crash:



I-DAWA.



Flown on: 319, 320, 321, 340, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, DC9, D10, M11, M80, 146, EM2, BEH, CRJ, DH8, L4T.
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 13711 times:



Your other pic looks fake too, but I got this off FoxNewsLive.

AA777jr


User currently offlineAa54heavy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 189 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 13595 times:

FoxNews is reporting 31 dead


Plane Crash Kills Dozens in Indonesia
Tuesday, November 30, 2004

JAKARTA, Indonesia — A Lion Air (search) passenger plane carrying more than 150 people skidded off a runway in central Indonesia during heavy rain and split into two pieces Tuesday, killing at least 31 people, airline officials and witnesses said.

At least 62 people were injured, officials said. Some survivors were still stuck in the wreckage three hours later, media reports said.

The accident occurred at about 6 p.m. as Flight JT583 landed in Solo, a thriving tourist town about 310 miles southeast of the capital, Jakarta, the station said. The MD-82 plane took off from Jakarta with 141 passengers and five crew members aboard, airline officials said.

The plane stopped in the East Java town of Surabaya (search) before heading to Solo, where it skidded off the runway, broke up and came to rest in a nearby cemetery about 100 yards away, airport officials said.

"The plane hit the tarmac and we all started yelling 'Allahu akbar!' (God is Great!)," one passenger told Metro TV. "I grabbed a women near me and just tried to reach (the) emergency exit. Everyone around me was screaming."

Metro TV showed a chaotic scene at the airport, with dead and injured passengers lying on the terminal floor and crying relatives searching for news of their loved ones. The plane sat in darkness.





Roger that, turning to our "other" left
User currently offlineIDAWA From Italy, joined Aug 2004, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 13336 times:

Aa777jr,
my second picture is perfectly real. Here is a nose closeup of PK-LMN:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dinosat



As you may spot, and should have spotted before criticizing my picture, the vertical red stripe in the crashed plane is the same as the vertical part of the L in the above picture. Such strip is located four windows (plus one shaded) aft of the L1 door, in both pictures. The nose section, both in my and in your picture, looks bent towards the starboard side of the MD-82.

Isn't that enough?

I-DAWA.



Flown on: 319, 320, 321, 340, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, DC9, D10, M11, M80, 146, EM2, BEH, CRJ, DH8, L4T.
User currently offlineAviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1486 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 12578 times:

With this news, I recall Mandala499's prophetic postings in the past about the state of the aircraft flown by Indonesia's growing airline community. It is sad to hear of the fatalities mounting from single digit to 31!

I hope that this causes authorities to perhaps cast a more critical eye on the state of the airlines' fleet (not to say that this accident is caused by the aircraft's condition).

KC Sim
Bangkok


User currently onlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4505 posts, RR: 72
Reply 21, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12131 times:

Many of us have seen this coming for at least 2 years now, and have expressed our concerns in many threads here in the past. I guess the only question which remains is what the airline will blame the crash on. Anything but themselves will do... Anything except the dilapidated state of some of their airframes really.

I was in the Garuda Indonesia OCC at the time of the crash and a company plane landed at the same airport about 15 minutes earlier in similar weather conditions and without any problem. The last flight of the day, another Garuda Jakarta - Solo flight was diverted into nearby Jogjakarta airport. Solo airport has meanwhile reopened for traffic again.

As for Lion Air, problems has been extensive, but unfortunately largely undocumented. Let's hope this disaster will serve as a wake up call for the company and make sure they get their act together with regard to the many hickups in their operation. Unfortunately, it's very unlikely that this will happen. Still, one can hope...



User currently offlineSyarif From Malaysia, joined Jul 2004, 29 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11433 times:

This is certainly bad news. I travel a lot to Indonesia from KUL. Will stick with MH whenever possible.
Been on Lion Air once, not really a nice experience.
I wonder how a country so large and diverse maintain aviation standards. What are the variations of aviation standards, practices, enforcements and regulations between lets say Java and Irian Jaya.


User currently offlineGaruda From Indonesia, joined Nov 2000, 584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11180 times:

Latest news, the captain, Dwi M was found dead.. RIP...

The plane itself, PK-LMN was operating MES-CGK before continuing to SOC (and further to SUB), with one of my friend (also an A.net photographer) on board. From what I heard, the APU was malfunctioning, and refueling with one engine running was allowed, hence the plane carried fuel for the whole trip to SUB, so there was still some fuel remains during the crash. Luckily the plane was not caught in fire.


User currently offlineJumboJim747 From Australia, joined Oct 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 44
Reply 24, posted (9 years 10 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10998 times:

If one company has a lot to be desired in the way of maintenance and operating
their aircraft we cant assume that all of Indonesia airlines are the same .
Believe it or not maintenance issues combined with other factors is what ended ansett here is aust.



On a wing and a prayer
25 HB-IWC : Lion flies 19 MD82s on one of the last counts, and 2 734s... Subsidiary Wings fly 3 DHC-8-300s... Rumours say they got 5. Mandala, I think Lion by now
26 BENNETT123 : I found the following on the BBC website. Indonesia crash 'due to weather' The plane ended up in a graveyard Bad weather is being blamed as the probab
27 Post contains images NoelG : This is very sad news - I saw this exact aircraft at PEN in May and was my first glimpse of a 'small' Asian airliner so it brings back memories. I hav
28 Post contains images Mandala499 : Well, Garuda's and my friend who was on PK-LMN earlier was "dinosat" the guy who took the a.net photo I-DAWA posted! Aviasian... We're worried that Li
29 StudentFlyer : Latest update indicated that the Captain was found dead, while the F/O survived the incident/accident. It is still unclear about the number of fatalit
30 Mandala499 : Runway in use was 26 (ILS). Wind was 300 6 - 8kt... Not a tailwind... and I think it's within the 5kt crosswind limit for wet runway for MD80... Manda
31 Post contains images Mandala499 : Taken from the IndoFlyer crew in JOG who drove up to SOC... For fellow aviation enthusiasts to view... *pretty gruesome* Taken the day after the accid
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