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TWA Domestic Routes?  
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3322 times:

I am aware that when TW was bought out they had a very exclusive international route system. What, if any, domestic routes was TW flying when they were bought out? How many international flights did they have compared to domestic?

Do you think UA could survive if the focused more on international service (like TW did) and let LCC handle domestic routes?

AA777jr

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3274 times:

Domestic consisted of almost every major city in the United states to STL. They flew JFK-LAX, SFO, MCO, MIA, SJU and SJU-BOS, LAX, FLL.

Probably a few more but that's off the top of my head.


User currently offlineTW741 From Liechtenstein, joined Sep 2004, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3273 times:

What, if any, domestic routes was TW flying when they were bought out

hmmm - TW had an extensive domestic network - finally (before getting TWA LLC as part of AA) operating out of the main hub STL and, to a lesser extent - JFK/LGA. Listing all cities served would be a long posting. Let's put it this way: TW was serving almost any state of the USA including Hawaii. Only in the northwest TW was more or less just serving PDX and SEA plus a few cities like Boisie or Kalispell.
At a certain time TW was also trying to build up minihubs namely ATL and ORD - I think that was still the "Icahn period".

=TW741=



TWA - we showed you how good we have been!
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3295 times:

>.Do you think UA could survive if the focused more on international service (like TW did) and let LCC handle domestic routes?<<

Actually, in the end, TW was retreating from transatlantic international service. It ended service from JFK to MXP, FCO, MAD, BCN, ATH and other markets during the last few years of existence. It then started focusing on Caribbean markets.

TW had a huge domestic operation (400+ daily departures) out of STL, its primary hub. It pretty much ended all domestic service out of JFK, save transcons, during the same period it stopped transat's out of there (jetBlue's arrival hastened the end to many JFK domestic routes too, especially Florida).

From STL, TW or it's Express partners flew to (not complete list):
ORD
MCI
DFW
LAS
ONT
SNA
SFO
SEA
PDX
MSY
SDF
LIT
MEM
FLL
MIA
PBI (ended before takeover)
ATL
BNA
IND
GRR
DIA
MSN
DEC
SPI
BMI
CMI
Marion, IL
Kirksville, MO
Columbia, MO
SPF
LGA
EWR
JFK
BOS
BDL
WAS
IAD
BWI
DTW
CLE
CVG
CMH
RIC
Norfolk, VA
PIT
PHL
TPA
MCO
SJU
HNL
OGG
MSP
RST
MLI
UIN
DSM
LNK
OMA
CLT
RDU
JAX
TUL
OKC

Plus more...

[Edited 2004-12-01 20:23:54]


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3254 times:

>>Only in the northwest TW was more or less just serving PDX and SEA plus a few cities like Boisie or Kalispell<<


TW stopped serving Boise several years before its end, and I'm not sure it ever served Kalispell.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlinePlanespotting From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3531 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3228 times:

TWA was, in essence, the last mainline Major carrier to serve Moline Illinois (MLI). When i was in jr high on any trip to moline i would beg my parents to stop by the airport (pre september 11, you could get to the gates) to watch those lovely TWA DC-9 30's and 50's go from Moline to St Louis. I talked to an ex MD-80 F/O at TWA who works here at southwest now and he said that they carried some amazing load factors to and from there, the airplanes, on average he said were over 80% full during peak times. Not bad for little Moline, who the best we can do now is get 3 (i think 3) AirTran 717's per day to and from atlanta.


Do you like movies about gladiators?
User currently offlineLegendDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3193 times:

for the last few years of service it was actually a through service from STL to PDX and SEA as well as a SEA STL non stop.

User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3179 times:


From Denver (Stapleton and DIA), TWA served mainly STL, SLC, and JFK (one daily 727 for JFK in the 1980s). In the waning years, they widdled that down to just STL. . .but they served STL with MD80s, 757s and L1011s (Serving STL & SLC). Stapleton also got the 707s up until their retirement.



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User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3170 times:

Didn't some of the DEN flights, in the early 90s make a 1 stop at COS?

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3166 times:

Like most airlines, TWA's route system changed over the years and was greatly reorganized when TWA, like other US carriers, converted from point to point flying to focusing on hubs. Prior to deregulation, TWA was primarily an east coast to west coast airline with lots of transcon flights - TWA maintained large stations in most northeast cities and had a large station in Chicago; TW was also a big player in Pittsburgh, Indy, Ohio cities, Kanasas City and Alberquerque. TW competed head to head with UA and AA on many routes, including the important LGA-ORD, ORD-LAX and other such routes. It was a very interesting point to point route system. The domestic system fed international flights that departed from ORD, LAX, JFK, BOS, IAD,etc. After the TW/Ozark deal, the route system became far more focused on the St Louis hub, lots of smaller stations were added, and TW slowly dropped service at ORD as it was difficult competing against AA and UA as those airlines were rapdily expanding at ORD.

TW's main hubs were developed at STL and JFK, with STL being all about domestic connections and JFK being the key international gateway - as mentioned, TW served all major destinations nation wide out of STL. TW also tried focus cities at ATL (a major flop), got involved in the competitive NYC-Florida market (they did OK, not great, on those routes) and then tried service to the Caribbean which was rather successful and San Juan became a focus city for TW. While all of this was going on, TW was shrinking its international services.


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6784 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

What was TWA routes out of RDU?


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3153 times:

"What was TWA routes out of RDU?"

STL 4x


User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3153 times:

Quickmover: You are absolutley correct. TWA mainly flew MD80s from DEN to COS RT. Good catch.


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User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3130 times:

Seems that the routes I stated were well into effect in the 1990s.

Aa777jr: You might find this link useful. It has TWA's route maps over the years of it's life. http://www.airchive.com/SITE%20PAGES/TIMETABLES-TWA.html



Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
User currently offlineStlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9494 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3115 times:

For the most part, TWA operated six or seven major departure banks to most of the cities. There was near hourly service to Chicago, about eight or nine flights a day STL-LGA, domestic wide body service St. Louis to Honolulu and Los Angeles. Towards late 1999, MD80's, DC9's and later 717's were used on a majority of the routes, but 757's I know were flown some to BWI, DCA, IND, MCI, SFO, LAX, and most Florida destinations.

Outside of TWFirst's post, some other mainline destinations included Cedar Rapids, Colorado Springs, Austin, Houston Intercontinental, San Antonio, etc.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineSprxUSA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3118 times:

As an avid airline buff who has lived in Boise all my life, I know that TWA has never had scheduled service to here,ever. The closest city TW operated near here was SLC.
The only time I saw a TWA plane here was a John-Deere sponsored charter to Iowa or Illinois.

I like how TW flew into some odd places once a day (Harrisburg, McAllen, etc.) Not very effective use of a/c.

It always amused me when they flew into Pueblo,CO in late '80s, I believe.



Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3101 times:

>>I know that TWA has never had scheduled service to here,ever.<<

I thought they did. Maybe I'm thinking of Ozark.

[Edited 2004-12-01 21:34:46]


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3098 times:

TWA developed a hub-and-spoke system in the 1980's, with hubs and STL for most domestic flights, and JFK for international routes. The JFK hub was very unique - it was truly the definition of an "add-on" system, and only had one flight a day (to/from most cities) timed to connect with international departing flights. Most incoming flights came from two cities, such as IND-CMH-JFK, SLC-DEN-JFK, IAH-MSY-JFK, and LAS-PHX-JFK. There are others, but these are the ones I remember.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but I believe at one time there was a non-stop SAN-JFK on TWA. At one point it changed to a one-stop-but-same-flight-number via STL, and then it was gone altogether.

In answer to your question, UA's international service is their money maker. The TED model seems to be working on certain routes. I think a shift towards the TED flights in certain markets is good business sense, but not system-wide.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineSprxUSA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3086 times:

That is BS. You show me a sched and I'll believe you. From the BOI airport's inception in 1926, starting with Varney then into United, then followed by Zimmerly-Empire-WestCoast-AirWest-Hughes, operated into BOI up to 1979, when Frontier started. Then the plethora of dereg carriers into here, which TW was not.

The closest TW ever had to a sched service here is when Ozark had applied to the CAB to start the DEN-BOI route that FL (Original Frontier)eventually began.
Now, if you consider Transwestern Airlines as a TWA, then yes, TWA served BOI on a scheduled basis.



Gem State Airlines..."we have a gem of an airline"
User currently offlineDIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3273 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3056 times:

Sidenote to reply #18:

CO also served Boise from Denver until the CO Flt.1713 crash, then CO dropped the route.

Edit: I just noticed this was said, so be what may: 'Then the plethora of dereg carriers into here, which TW was not.

[Edited 2004-12-01 21:56:41]


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User currently offlineMoman From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2989 times:

AA has pretty much dismantled TWA's route network.

AA no longer flies STL to MCI, PDX, and 25 other destinations I can't remember.

TWA used to fly 6x dailies MD80 from STL-TPA, shortly after the merger it was 5x MD80, in 2002 it was 2x 757, 2x MD80, in 2003 it was 3x MD80, after the major cut in STL it was 2x MD80 (changed quickly to 1x 757 and 1x MD80), in 2004 after April it was 1x 757, and now it is back to 1x 757 and 1x MD80. STL-MCO has also been through similar cuts/additions/cuts again.

Too bad for AA. Does anyone know the load factors on the STL-TPA flights? I'm curious.

Moman




AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
User currently offlineMHTMDW From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2952 times:

Somewhere in my collection of stuff, I have a pamphlet from about 1971 which introduced "TWA's Ambassador Coach Lounge" on the 747 and also explained new services in coach on all long haul domestic flights. Also had a mini route map which showed all of these flights on 747 707 and 880 a/c. Amazing amounts of point to point sevice.

User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5713 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2944 times:

Even in 1982, there were junkloads of point-to-point routes. I'll have to look through my three trunks full of TWA stuff ( the models are n a display case for all to see, if y'all are ever out here in Utah). I should make a display for these items too, I have all the timetables from 1939 to the very last one (thank eBay!) Among several thousand paper items and miscellaneous...even TWFirst seats from an L-1011! And some china from the 50's up to the 2000 set. I will always miss TWA.


Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2926 times:

STL isn't a huge airport, so I was just wondering about their structure with domestic and international.

Thanks for all info!

AA777jr


User currently offlineMHTMDW From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2891 times:

Western: I miss TWA as well! I flew with them from ORD to BOS and back on a 707 in Feb of 1983, shortly before they pulled back at ORD. My father used to fly TWA a bunch in the mid 80s... my parents flew TWA to Europe the day of the Athens hijacking in 1985. ANd then to Europe during the first Gulf War, with about 6 other passengers on the plane.

25 WesternA318 : MHTMDW, My parents flew to ATH on the day of the hijacking, and then returned three weeks later. They were also on a Riyadh flight a few days before t
26 Post contains links and images DIA : "STL isn't a huge airport, so I was just wondering about their structure with domestic and international." STL might not be huge, but TWA certainly ha
27 WesternA318 : I also agree with you DIA, STL loved us. We brought in most of the St. Louis tourism. WN brought in maybe 19% and we had a whopping 73%. I'm glad I wa
28 Afitch7881 : TWA also flew in the 90's early 2002's from BDL-JFK on express, and BDL-PWM (Portland, Maine) on a daily MD80.
29 Jetpixx : I remember when TW flew into PBI with L1011s and 767s to JFK. I also have a nice shot in the evening of a 757 at FLL on its way to STL on one of the l
30 DocChaos : My first time flying was on a TWA 717 MLI - STL - PIT on Aug. 1st, 2001 (and the return on Aug. 3rd, 2001). Now that I am involved in the industry, I
31 WesternA318 : Mmm..keep bringin back more memories! I'm actually enjoying the forums for once...
32 Thrust : I agree. These memories are great. Unfortunately STL's major status has been severely downgraded...no longer do we ever see long lines of traffic jams
33 WesternA318 : I say TWA should be re-started. That would be awesome
34 Moman : Thrust: You are wrong about STL today. Concourse C is where American hosts most of their departures (C1-C24), the end of C terminal is vacant and D is
35 N328KF : I, for one, am glad to not deal with going through St. Louis constantly. I worked for a company that loved to use TWA, and every time I went to somepl
36 FinnWings : I would be very pleased if someone could tell me what type of aircraft TWA used in 1990 on routes JFK-TPA and JFK-MCO? Thank you very much! Best Regar
37 Moman : N328KF; Try going through Chicago anytime in the winter (and damn near year round) and you will be praying for the opportunity to go back through STL.
38 Post contains images N328KF : Moman: Look at my profile. And I fly a lot.
39 7E72004 : This reminds me...back in 1986, more specifically on Dec. 19, 1986 i remember flying on an L1011 from PHL to STL, does anyone know if that was part of
40 Planespotting : I forgot something. When i was getting my private pilots license in the summer of 2001, i was taxiing at MLI in my lil cherokee and i was holding shor
41 Kkfla737 : TWA had an extrodinary number of destinations served from ORD right after deregulation. They eventually got chased off all of the routes except JFK an
42 Oceanic : You could add Sarasota (SRQ) to the list, however they did happen to stop service just before the takeover was completed. They flew there from STL wit
43 LambertMan : Wow Thrust, C and D? That would leave American with what? Zero Gates? hahah jk Moman, The end of C isn't vacant, if you drive by the airport at night
44 Ramerinianair : FinnWings, TW was famous for their MD-80 and DC-9s. They had som many of them. They usually sent the 80s to Florida from NY. Although it wasn't unhear
45 WesternA318 : On June 6, 1989, (my 7th b-day), I flew on TWA from SLC-DEN-STL-JFK-MIA on an MD-80 all the way to STL, then a 747to JFK, and finally a L-1011 to MIA.
46 Uadc8contrail : when WN started the STL-MDW route back in the late 80s,early 90s TWA matched the fare but it was to ORD. 2 of my coworkers and i bought tickets on TWA
47 Uadc8contrail : SORRY.....the capt kept the gear down....................
48 Thrust : whoops, excuse me, I meant just Concourse D. Didn't AA switch over to Concourse C when they ditched Concourse D or something? Or did they just pack mo
49 Moman : Thanks for the info LambertMan, I'm glad to hear they still use the gates on the end of C at least once a day. Thrust, AA did have flights in D until
50 WesternA318 : Or you could see an L-1011 or 767 filling in for a broken 727 or MD-80 sometimes in places like SLC, SAN or RNO. I've only seen an L1011 equip swap on
51 FinnWings : Thanks for the info Ramerinianair! I was only a kid when I was on board of those flights and couldn't remember the type of aircraft... On a side note,
52 WesternA318 : Anyone remember the STL-JFK 747 flights? When did they switch to 762s? 1996 or so?
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