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North American Carriers In Africa  
User currently offlineFlybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3945 times:

To my knowledge (and I know someone will correct me if I am wrong), there are no Canadian, US or Mexican airlines flying into the contintent of Africa (don't use code sharing as an answer!).
Have any North American airlines EVER flown to cities in Africa? I would think maybe Cairo or Cape Town would be possible spots or were at one time.
I realize it makes more sense to rely on partner airlines in today's market, but what about, say, 30 years ago?


Heia Norge!
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4375 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3930 times:

I'm pretty sure TWA flew to Cairo.


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3925 times:

Pan Am definitely used to fly to Cairo, Monrovia, Nairobi, and (I think) Dar Es Salaam. The routing for subsaharan flights was JFK-Monrovia, and from Monrovia to points elsewhere on the continent.

Delta also used to fly to Cairo.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineLAXINTL From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24792 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3899 times:

Currently World Airways operates to Luanda Angola from Houston a couple times a week. The flights which operate under the Sonair banner have been flying for several years carrying oil industry types back and forth. The aircraft is equipped in a 2 class configuration, not the typical World Airways cattle car MD-11 set up. World also tried operating its own scheduled service flights to Johannesburg back in the mid-90s however the experiment was dropped quickly.

Indeed TWA also operated to Africa. Actually Cairo was one of its first destinations to be served via Paris shortly after WWII. Cairo managed to stay on TWAs route map until the very end having been operated with B767-300s nonstop from the JFK with continuation service to Riyadh Saudi Arabia. If I'm not mistaken the carrier also might have operated to Morocco for a brief period.

Pan Am used to serve Africa quite a bit. In the 80s Monrovia, Johannesburg, Lagos and Nairobi were served. Jo-burg was dropped as part of US sanctions against South Africa. Nairobi was served pretty close to the end of the carrier finally with A310s via Frankfurt. Pan Am in addition served a few other African destinations back in the 60/70s with B707s.

In addition there was short lived upstart airline US Africa Airways with 2 leased American MD-11s based at Washington Dulles.

Lastly, I believe Continental Airlines is due to start EWR-Lagos service in 2005. They had applied with the DOT a few months back for the route.


[Edited 2004-12-02 09:02:01]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAa777jr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3857 times:

What would DL have to operate to fly to JNB or CPT from ATL? Are they flying any a/c with that range?

AA777jr


User currently offlineAMS From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1690 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3823 times:

Lastly, I believe Continental Airlines is due to start EWR-Lagos service in 2005. They had applied with the DOT a few months back for the route

Once Co starts to fly to LOS, then this will put a pressure on European carriers as AF,BA,KL,LH because on these flights are normally a very large amount of Transfer Passengers going to North America.

Regards,
AMS


User currently offlineRoblondon70 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3780 times:

Pan Am also served ABJ, ACC, DKR and LOS at one time. No?

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

What would DL have to operate to fly to JNB or CPT from ATL?

Indeed, I thought DL operated to JNB or CPT from ATL with a stop-over in SID (Cape Verde), is this correct?



User currently offlineCaptSkibi From United States of America, joined May 2004, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3748 times:

South African Airways operates JNB/CPT-ATL or vice versa. The stopover in Cape Verde is a fuel stop on the way up to ATL. I'm not sure on the way down to South Africa, however.

DL code shares with SAA on this route (but not Sky Team).



Private Pilot, Airplane Single Engine Land / DL Gold Elite
User currently offlineNoelG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3743 times:

Hardiwv - I thought that was SAA doing that routing? Are you sure it was DL?

Cheers,
Noel.


User currently offlineNoelG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3742 times:

Damnit CaptSkibi - you beat me to it!!

 Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Cheers,
Noel.


User currently offlinePRGLY From Czech Republic, joined Dec 2004, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

If I m not mistaken DL never flew to JNB,CPT by themselves, it is DL code on SA210 and SA212 flights operated by 346 nowadays. Routing is ATL-SID-JNB-CPT and ATL-SID-CPT-JNB


just fly - it is nice
User currently offlineA350 From Germany, joined Nov 2004, 1100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3709 times:

If I m not mistaken DL never flew to JNB,CPT by themselves, it is DL code on SA210 and SA212 flights operated by 346 nowadays. Routing is ATL-SID-JNB-CPT and ATL-SID-CPT-JNB


Does anybody know if they have the 56000 or the 60000 lbs Trents on the wing?

According to the Airbus website, the first results in 7500 nm range, the latter in 7900 nm range.

At the Great Circle mapper http://gc.kls2.com/, CPT-ATL is calculated to 7064 nm, JNB-ATL to 7334 nm.

So, why the refueling stop?

A350



Photography - the art of observing, not the art of arranging
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4746 posts, RR: 43
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3701 times:

No North American airline flies to Africa currently but the following African airlines fly to North America :

1. Egypt Air...JFK + YUL
2. Ethiopian...BWI
3. Royal Air Maroc...JFK
4. South African...JFK + ATL

Rumored to start in the future :

1. Kenya Airways to MIA nonstop from NBO (has been in the works for a 1 year now) with B 772ERs.


User currently offlineLatinAviation From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1276 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3682 times:

Indeed, back in the mid 1990s World had a small int'l hub at EWR and codeshared with Continental. This didn't last long, but the carrier flew to West Africa (Dakar, Senegal, I believe) and used dormant frequencies to CPT/JNB.

There was a start-up, US Africa Airways, that was in business for 9 months flying IAD-CPT/JNB via Sal Island.


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3635 times:

I will bet Virgin Nigeria has some old route authorities from NigerianEagleAirlines to North America which they will use.

User currently offlineAcvitale From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 922 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3620 times:

ET flies to IAD not BWI

Virgin Nigerian will likely fly to NYC (airport undetermined)

Ghana International will fly to NYC and WAS (airport undetermined)


User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

Pan Am actually built most of the airports throughout Africa. We operated from JFK to RBA, ROB, DKR, CKY, ABJ, ACC, LOS, NBO, DAR, JNB and DLA.
ROB was the major crew changing point and the crews were on a 13 day pattern when they left the states.

WO also operated ATL/LOS for several months last year before having to cancel service do to lack of payment by the tour operator. WO has also operated JFK/ACC as a sub-service for Ghana Air on several occasions and of course has many charters that were all over the African continent.

Ed



Ed
User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2015 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3533 times:

At one point Pan Am had service to several airports in Africa, continuing well into the 1980s. Gradually the African flights were cut back, and by the end in 1991 there was no Africa service.

TWA received authority from Athens/Cairo to a number of eastern African destinations in the late 1960s (Nairobi, Addis Ababa, Entebbe/Kampala, etc.) but these were traded to Pan Am in the great early 1970s route swap that saw Pan Am pull almost completely out of Paris (a TWA stronghold) and TWA back out of Germany.


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3518 times:

This seems like the appropriate place to point this out:

http://www.airchives.com

There are old route maps available of excellent quality (most are extremely clear). Check out the old TWA and Pan Am route maps - some wildly exotic routes were flown, such as Cairo - Basra (Iraq). Airline Nirvana!!

In reference to your question, you will see both Pan Am and TWA both served Africa at different points.

And speaking of Africa, what is the status of Continental's IAH-EWR-LOS service? Still in the works? On hold? Anyone know?



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3507 times:

PanAM747,
Couldn't get the site to open. Any suggestions?

Ed



Ed
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3504 times:

Wow!! It was working fine yesterday!! Don't know what happened....

Once it goes back up, you'll see it's a great site!!

Sorry!!  Sad



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3498 times:

Sorry!! My fault!!

http://www.airchive.com

No "s"...

AAAAGGGHHH!!!! Try that...



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3486 times:

Got it. Thanks a lot. This looks fantastic.

Ed



Ed
User currently offlineRoblondon70 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3460 times:

Great maps....Any similar source with actual timetables??

25 Scf158 : Behramjee, doesn't Royal Air Maroc also serve YUL seasonly?
26 Kkfla737 : Pan Am cut services to all African destinations except Nairobi in late 1986- this meant Dkar, Monrovia, and Lagos were cut in addition to Cairo and Jo
27 Andz : A350 this has been a popular topic in the past, SAA are keen on carrying as much cargo as possible on the routes from the States so they are sacrifici
28 Kkfla737 : Accra and Abbajan were also cut in the 80s by Pan Am. Delta served Cairo briefly in 2001.
29 Post contains links and images Aa777jr : Would there be a market for DL to fly a 772 out of ATL to CPT or JNB? View Large View MediumPhoto © Art Brett AA777jr[Edited 2004-12-02 19:44:17]
30 EurostarVA : The US DOT's worrying stance against Virgin Nigeria Airways flights to the US is puzzling. Since the new airline will be majority owned by Nigerian in
31 AA B777-200 : Behramjee, Since Kenya Airways is a KLM partner, I was once told by their rep that they'd rather open NBO-DTW than any other US City. You would think
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