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Braniff Or Pan Am Restarting  
User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3976 times:

Hi,

I am not sure if this has been discussed before, but i was wondering why Pan Am of all airlines was restarted, surly Braniff would have been a better option, they had more aircraft so why didn't they stay alive. Also, i have seen many pics of models of Concorde in Braniff colours, and i was wondering if they would have aquired concorde or would the orders have fallen through like many others.

Thanks
Mike

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3908 times:

BN did restart, twice. The only time they had any chance at all was when they had A320s painted in a scheme that can best be described as an ugly version of the newer HP scheme.


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Also, it is not the aircraft that restarted the airline, it was the name.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3907 times:

I understand, but when an airline goes under, can't they sell aircraft or lease aircraft out to try and get back on their feet.

User currently offlineSchooner From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3848 times:

What if the aircraft they had were leased off somebody else........


Untouched and Alive
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12103 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3762 times:
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Actually Braniff came back three times! Let them rest in peace, stop beating the dead horse.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3747 times:

As i never saw Braniff, i can't comment a lot, but i would have loved to see it.

User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3596 times:

I think Eastern should be "restarted," There has only been on incarnation of them  Smile


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineDayflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3567 times:

Eastern restart would be cool, although DL, US and Airtran might have a little something to say on the subject, along with CO, and some others.

Let Braniff lie dead, RIP. 3 times at the trough is enough. I flew them a few times out of DFW to MSP back in the late 70's and early 80's (when the REAL Braniff was around) and they were a fine airline.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5658 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3551 times:

Braniff had orders for Concorde, but they fell through and all BN had in terms of Concorde service was a through-plane service for Air France from CDG-IAD-DFW, and with BA on LHR-JFK-DFW. No Concorde ever had Braniff totles or colors on it in reality, but the models sure are swee. Just like the A380 models.

Now, instead of BN or PA restarting, why not have Western, Eastern, AND TWA restart under one parent company to kepp them within the same family of "vintage" airlines?



Next blog will be up on 8/30/14 around 6PM Mountain Time...check it out at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3535 times:

I like that...you could call it "Vintage Air" and its subsidiarys  Big thumbs up


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineFLY2LIM From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1184 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3531 times:

So many romantics! You feel that just because the side of the plane says "Braniff" that people are going to flock to it and start flying it. It takes too much money to establish a network that will sustain an airline, and I'm no economist. Also, their route network would be so small. And there are so many flyers now who are tied up in their airline's ff programs. At this point, no upstart could compete, unless you had massive financial backing like B6. If that was the case, it would be a wiser marketing option to start fresh, like Jet Blue, than to attach to your airline the name of a failed carrier or, in the case of Braniff, a thrice failed carrier.
I flew the real Braniff in the late 70s and early 80s. They were ok. I loved the leather seats in coach and those DC-8s were awesome planes. However, I also know they were very poorly managed and they set themselves up for failure. Of course, they didn't know then what we know now. Things were very different.
FLY2LIM



Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5658 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3520 times:

Very true FLY2LIM, I only remember the 727's in the god-awful "ultra' scheme. Nothing like the Flying Colors of yesterday. And those A320's were hideous. Good thing HP gave them a good home.

As far as vintage Air is concerned: (LOL).

Vintage Air
subsidiaries:

Western Mk. II (Hubs: LAX, SLC)
TWA Mk. II (Hubs: LAX, STL, JFK)
Eastern Mk. II (Hubs: JFK, MIA, MCI)

Could you imagine the route map? Or gates at LAX, MIA or JFK?  Big thumbs up



Next blog will be up on 8/30/14 around 6PM Mountain Time...check it out at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

I wish i could find it but i remember drawing a picture of what i think the Eastern jet would look like...just slap the big "symbol" (whatever it was *lol*) on the tail and have a grey plane with a single blue strip across the body with "Eastern" in big letters  Big thumbs up


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineAlektoronto From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3485 times:

I think the age of brand recognition is dead. Average people (not the members here) do not care who they fly with..PRICE is king for 99 percent of people. That golden age of PAN AM 747's all over the world and Braniff with their crazy Pucci uniforms and bubble hats is way over..pretty soon nobody (except us) will remember it ever happened. Most of my pals have no idea what/who Braniff is/was??
My answer is why bother? If you are crazy enough to start an airline these days just start from scratch...surprised nobody has started CHEAP AIRLINES INC yet???
cheers
Alek


User currently offlineDayflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3469 times:

My answer is why bother? If you are crazy enough to start an airline these days just start from scratch...surprised nobody has started CHEAP AIRLINES INC yet???

Lets try for "Cheap Seats" !  Smile



One Nation Under God
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3467 times:

I prefer "Cheapo Air."  Big thumbs up


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5658 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3398 times:

Cheapo Air, huh? Wasnt that PeoplExpress? Oh wait, how about the "No Frills airlines' from the movie airplane! ? At least we get to slide down on the baggae carousel...


Next blog will be up on 8/30/14 around 6PM Mountain Time...check it out at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3389 times:

This is starting to look like the "Airplane" thread that i started a long time ago  Big thumbs up


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5658 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3370 times:

"the red zone is for loading and unloading..."
"Listen Betty, dont start with your white zone S**t again..."
A classic!



Next blog will be up on 8/30/14 around 6PM Mountain Time...check it out at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineAZjetgeek From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 235 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3352 times:

Braniff should R.I.P. I believe that a major reason why the three attempts to save it failed was the "ghost" of Harding Lawrence. Or should I say, the "curse"?

WesternA318, I genuinely like your suggestion of "Vintage Air", bringing back TWA, Western and Eastern under one umbrella carrier with subsidiaries. I do have some alternate suggestions as to the hubs:

Western - PHX and DFW
TWA - STL and PHL
Eastern - JFK and CLT

Although the old Western was based in Los Angeles, and had a major presence at LAX, I believe there is more potential at PHX. Consider that JetBlue and WestJet have come in here and Alaska is expanding its service to Sky Harbor. During the 60's and 70's, Western played a prominent role in air travel out of the old terminal 1.

As an alternate to PHX, I would suggest SFO or SNA so that Western would have a west coast base.

Given the financial pickle US is in, both PHL and CLT are ripe for the picking. Thus, my suggestion of putting a hub for TWA at PHL and a hub for Eastern at CLT.



Long live the RJ!
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5658 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3339 times:

AZjetgeek,

The only reason I didnt put ANY airline in PHX is that the city is almost evenly split between HP and WN. I don't want to screw up HP's system. Western would be suited in SLC and LAX to take a bloody stab at DL (which is WHY im thinking of basing the majority of flights out of SLC) and TWA would be best suited in STL to retake the hub after AA slowly pulls out. Eastern I would let loose with a mini-city in ATL to help Airtran along AND to take yet another stab at DL, as well as in MCO.



Next blog will be up on 8/30/14 around 6PM Mountain Time...check it out at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineFlyguyclt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3273 times:

BRANIFF?? Only if I get my seniority back !

Safe Flying  Smile



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3249 times:

This is amazing, it just shows you what people think.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3208 times:

Some of these clipped wings have names that are sullied by reputation.

Braniff: The sudden shutdown of Braniff mk.1 was a major thing, as it was the first big airline to suffer as a result of Deregulation. The original Braniff had a style and substance that cannot be economically duplicated in the current climate.

Eastern: One simple acronym to sum this one up. WHEAL (We Hate Eastern Airlines). Before Untied, there was WHEAL, plus the airline suffered a black eye from the IAM strike and from the Lorenzo years, which really gave the name a bad image.

Pan Am: When most people think of Pan Am, the first thing that that comes to mind is the old days of flying, when flying was a big deal, and flying Pan Am to Europe or Asia or South America. Every attempt at restarting Pan Am has sullied the classic name of Pan Am, so it needs to remain buried.

TWA: With AMR owning the name and associated trademarks, unless they decide to let the copyrights revert to the public domain (it takes over 20 years of the name and marks not being used for this to occur).

Western: See above, but substitute Delta for AMR.


User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26444 posts, RR: 75
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3175 times:

>BRANIFF?? Only if I get my seniority back !<

Have you been an F/A at every airline in the world now?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy You are super flight attendant man Flyguyclt.

Did you like your Halston designed uniform?



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
25 Airgeek12 : I think what your referring to is this PanAm shuttle thing, . Yea- I was wondering about that too. Are they trying to make some sort of revival or som
26 Post contains links and images Matt D : Just for sake of conversation (replies #10 and #13 hit the nail on the head), what about restarting a defunct airline that was bought out-but had a lo
27 WesternA318 : The name to Western Airlines has slipped back into the public domain, the only thing DL now owns is the images, logos etc. etc. of the original Wester
28 JayDavis : I don't know what you'd want to call it, maybe Muse Air? We've got about 24 gates that are soon to be up for grabs at DFW Airport. That would help get
29 WesternA318 : I got it, I got it, how about....Trans Texas?
30 Dogfighter2111 : i never knew that National Started that far back
31 Post contains links Dogfighter2111 : I was also wondering, has Pan Am decided if they are starting again, cos their site is still there. http://www.flypanam.com
32 Post contains images Flyguyclt : Reply #24. Only worked for 3 . Florida Express Airlines. 1987 Merged with, Braniff Part 2. 1988-1989. NWA 1990 to present. Safe Flying
33 WesternA318 : Flyguyclt, I have flown on Florida Express many a time, and I LOVED the BAC1-11s! Then Braniff II bought them, at least the 1-11's were original Brani
34 Dogfighter2111 : I think he was, i remember reading something about him.
35 Ryanair : With reference to flypanam.com Obviously Pan AmI is long dead. Born, lived, died, RIP. In 1996 Pan Am II was born. Bought out by Carnival, went bust.
36 Dogfighter2111 : Yes, that is obvious because Pan American Worlds Airways would fly the globe, but this was just Pan American Clipper Connection
37 Britmex : Most of the failures of resurrected airlines are due to the fact that many of them are motivated by romantics or naive people who think passengers ma
38 Post contains images Flyguyclt : Western: Yes, Gordon was there and he was former Frontier as well as Midway. Florida Express was a fun airline. We did what we could with what we had
39 WesternA318 : Wow, flyguyclt, sounds awesome!
40 Sccutler : One comment on post way up there- while no Concorde was ever painted in BN colors, BN is the only US carrier ever to have operated the Concorde in sch
41 WesternA318 : That can't be a strange as when Braniff opened up 16 new cities on December 12, 1980. THAT is corporate suicide right there. No wonder they crashed an
42 Ken777 : The first flight I ever took on a jet was on Braniff - and the 707 was making its maiden commercial flight. Fond memories of that one. The first trip
43 Dl021 : Dogfighter...National was the first scheduled airline and begun at the site of the St.Petersburg City Airport. THere is a plaque there marking the eve
44 WesternA318 : I still have to go visit that place, and Dinner Key, to see the sign tht marks the first HQ of Pan American World Airways...and yet another sojourn to
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