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HP To Operate ATA Independently!  
User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2360 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7245 times:

Were there any HP employees/a.net'ers at the town hall meeting?


Conspicuous absence: America West Airlines employees were atwitter at the absence of CEO Doug Parker from a company town hall meeting Wednesday night. Chief Operating Officer Jeff McClelland stepped in for him and played it straight with workers: Parker was in the Midwest working on the company's expected offer for Indianapolis-based ATA Airlines.

If Tempe-based America West's bid is successful, what can employees expect? The company's flight attendants' union offered these tidbits in a hotline message to members this week: The airline plans to operate ATA independently for a year or so and to increase ATA's Hawaii flights.


http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/business/articles/1203buzz-bizbuzz03.html


The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
81 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7175 times:

I still don't think HP will win this one.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7159 times:

Interesting....I hope we win it over Airtran as I don't think they really care to keep the employees. That's something ATA should consider, if they care much about their workers.

User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7128 times:

It is not up to ATA to decide if HP or AirTran gets the deal...the Judge will decide on Dec. 16. In my opinion, i think AirTran is in better position to take the MDW operation. HP, i think, is trying to bite off more than they could chew and could eventually lead to layoffs anyway...much like the AA/TW transaction.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7114 times:

Yes, but wouldn't ATA have less overlap with America West than Airtran?


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7089 times:

HP wants to buy the entire airline whereas AirTran wants only the MDW operation. TZ is supposed to pull out of MDW alltogether, with the exception of maybe the IND-MDW flights. A code share arrangment is also in the works. I don't think there will be much overlapping, if any with the TZ/AirTran deal.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7082 times:

It would certainly strenghten and broaden our market share. While we do very well in the west, we've always wanted a stronger presence towards the east. I don't see how Airtran is in a better position to take them on.

I was talking with my friend at work who was thinking about applying to be a flight attendant with us. The recruiter told her to apply before the first of the year when the system will be changing. My friend asked her what was going on and the recruiter wouldn't say, except that it was a major thing. Clouds the air even more if you ask me.


User currently offlineCRPilot From Costa Rica, joined Nov 2004, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7073 times:

Seems to me from all the info I've read that ATA could end up in pieces, thus allowing everyone to get a piece of the action. It looks like HP's focus is getting the 75's.


Flying is a privilege!
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7069 times:

I guess either way we will find out in a couple of weeks...this would be a good bet for the Vegas gurus  Big grin


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7042 times:

Also, it seems like the bankruptcy process for ATA is going pretty fast...by December 16 we will know what the "plan" will be.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6988 times:


I still don't think HP will win this one.


Outside of your usual anti-HP bias, please provide some reasons why.


Yes, but wouldn't ATA have less overlap with America West than Airtran?


Yes, the ATA operations would work better in HP's network than AirTrans. HP already has an infrastructure in all TZ's domestic cities(excluding Hawaii).

HP is already serving Mexico, and the Carribean routes are within HP's sights.


HP, i think, is trying to bite off more than they could chew


And somehow ATA isn't.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6967 times:

I do not have a "usual anti-HP bias," i was merely expressing an opinion. HP has the government backed loans, and are simply not in good financial health as is AirTran.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineStlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9371 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6968 times:

"It would certainly strenghten and broaden our market share. While we do very well in the west, we've always wanted a stronger presence towards the east. I don't see how Airtran is in a better position to take them on."


If that was the case then America West wouldn't have dropped out of Columbus in April 2003.




if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6937 times:

Good point Stlgph!! AirTran has a pretty good presence in the East, even against Delta.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineLegendDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6900 times:

Do you think any airline is just going to "take over ATA" and run the same routes?! There is a reason ATA has failed and it wasn't because of poor management, so no-one is just going to take over. ATA also has the problem of name recognition anywhere outside Chicago or Indy and grew too fast too quickly. What HP and FL are trying to do is take the chunks that suit them the best, FL wants gates in MDW, HP more interested in planes and don't forget about NW that is unilaterally pushing TZ out of IND with their expansion. I am sure that eventually everyone will get a piece and TZ will go back to doing just their charters with the L-1011, straight up cash...

User currently offlineDayflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6889 times:

This is an interesting battle, but one that I think is going to boil down to Southwest vs Airtran. Don't forget that Airtran is also after the Baltimore/DC and LGA operations of ATA as well as MDW.

I think whoever gets "the piece of the pie in the sky" ATA will vacate is lucky to have a ready made market in Chicago. It's one valuable piece of turf.

America West (IMHO) stands little chance due to it's financial position, and the point about CMH made above by another poster is a very valid one.

Regardless, I hope whomever gets the gates keeps the ATA employee's.



One Nation Under God
User currently offline7E72004 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3587 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6877 times:

I have to disagree completely with that, TZ will not fail and NW is not going to push TZ out...i think before tz goes under the city of Indianapolis and the governor elect will step in. I see there being no problem with TZ operating as a "regional airline" along with NW at IND.


The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6847 times:

Chicago has much more of a population base than Columbus does...I still think that closing was a smart move.

User currently offlineNWAFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1893 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6830 times:

Hey Flyboy,

Your right, it was the best financial move for HP to close CMH. MDW could/would do well. As I have said before I am a fan of HP and take them when I can over Wn any day, however I am really worried about HP taking on too much debt...they are still holding on well, but ATA's debt will be difficult.



THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
User currently offlineLegendDC9 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6829 times:

TZ will not fail? As soon as the MDW gates were up for bid that was it. These are some of the most prime real-estate areas that have opened up in years and without those, TZ has little to hang on with as far as cash flow.

User currently offlineCactusA319 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2918 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6824 times:

I love how people think that because HP closed the CMH (which didn't work) suddenly they're not able to create a bigger presence in the East. Give me a break.  Insane






User currently offlineQwerty From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 386 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6814 times:

If that was the case then America West wouldn't have dropped out of Columbus in April 2003.

CMH is a crappy market and they mainly hubbed RJs there.

If you ever watched what HP did do there, you'd have seend they'd pull in about 6 RJS and a couple mainline planes and cross passengers.

Say what you want about that minihub idea, but I believe it preceded Parker and that they didn't enplane too many people in CMH.


User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6786 times:


If that was the case then America West wouldn't have dropped out of Columbus in April 2003.


You're trying to compare CMH with Chicago? Everybody knew that CMH wasn't working. It just wasn't a good place for a hub. HP's new mgmt was smart enough to see it and even smarter to stem the bleeding of money.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineStlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9371 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6735 times:

You're absolutely right I'm comparing Columbus to Chicago. If you can't make Columbus work, what makes you think it could work on the bigger scale of things at Chicago?

TZ is already pulling its Chicago Express operations down to feed its new concentration for Indianapolis. Therefore already, Chicago is left without a dependable feeder airline network for a hub operation there, similar to a route network America West had in Columbus at one time, minus nonstops to San Francisco, Seattle, Denver, Dallas, etc.

Ideally a Chicago "hub" could still work without a feeder if there were 717 planes flying the routes (i.e. AirTran) but even so, that would eliminate the ability to be flying to the far west coast destinations. Plus at Midway you are facing the fierce competition from Southwest and low fares being fought out between Northwest and Frontier offering easy connections to the west coast destinations that would be dropped when TZ pulls out. Going out east you have Southwest (again), plus easy connections from Northwest in Detroit and Continental in Cleveland. Across town at O'Hare you have a massive hub by American, United, and flyers still loyal to Northwest, Continental, along with Delta, USAir, etc. In Columbus, the largest city in Ohio, there was little or no nonstop competition from any other carrier to the markets that would be served from Chicago, and it still didn't work enough to warrant an A319 flying the route.




















if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineQwerty From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 386 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 9 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6712 times:

In Columbus, the largest city in Ohio, there was little

I thought Columbus was 3rd to CLE and CVG, according to Census I am wrong.

But I think that is a technicality, since the country, Franklin, encompassing Columbus is geographically HUGE. That's how the census looks at it I believe, which is also why AUS is skewed a bit. Travis county, it TX, is also very large. Both cities get ranked as more populus than Atlanta, which is not correct.

[Edited 2004-12-03 21:29:37]

25 Stlgph : Furthermore...if CMH isn't a good place for a hub, then why isn't Indianapolis? TZ is wanting to move away from Chicago and into Indianapolis, eventua
26 N328KF : Well, the fact of the matter is that ORD/MDW could use more strong players than AA and UA, and to a far lesser extent, WN.[Edited 2004-12-03 21:30:02]
27 7E72004 : LegendDC9---i think you are to ignorant to even look at what ATA is doing and the potential they could have. You already buried them but in a few mont
28 CactusA319 : Kinda weird that no one else has jumped in to make CMH a hub considering its the biggest city in Ohio and all.... Comparing CMH and MDW is apples to
29 Stlgph : Look at the Southwest route map. There's plenty of feed there.
30 7E72004 : Would WN ever try SBN??
31 N328KF : CMH is destined to be an RJ market.
32 LegendDC9 : Stlgph, I have to disagree with everything you say about failure in CMH. CMH, being the 1st 2nd or 3rd largest city in Ohio doesn't matter if there is
33 Post contains images 7E72004 : LegendDC-9---you seem to disagree with everyone on this forum. It seems you like to jump to conclusions without even looking at the facts. Anyway, I a
34 LegendDC9 : 7E72004 , I will wait to see. I admit to being pesemistic by nature but with MDW being such a valuable spot, having to give it up is not a positive s
35 Post contains images Gnomon : Granted, the bids are sealed until the court rules, but with all the rumors floating around, I'm wondering what of ATA will be LEFT. HP and FL want to
36 7E72004 : I will wait also...if i am wrong then so be it and i will admit at the time it is announced that i am wrong...i just think that AirTran has more point
37 Post contains images LegendDC9 : regarding the financial situation I do have to agree with you
38 CactusA319 : No shit dude. But what, you think HP is only going to fly to only 6-7 cities out of MDW if they get this hub? Get real. It would be operated on a tota
39 7E72004 : I just would love it if HP would keep the IND routes that ATA is currently trying to add...but it sounds like IF HP was to get the deal, that IND woul
40 Jettatco : ok guys, here's the deal HP will get TZ Parker offered a board seat to Michelson Parker has blessing of City of Chicago Mesa wants to buy C hico (Chic
41 Vortex : Now that this thread has gone from its title to one about CMH, a earlier post aptly stated the reality. The Bankruptcy Judge gets to decide. And the J
42 Stlgph : Yes so if you want to base the success of a hub being around O&D traffic, one has to capture the O&D market. With Columbus having a good 700,000 popul
43 CactusA319 : Whatever. I'll wait and see what the courts decide.
44 7E72004 : Jettaco--do you think that the chances of the "IND express" routes happening would be low if HP does get the deal?
45 Blsbls99 : Well, if the AirTran deal happens, what happens to the MDW ATA Employees? I'm sure that they get the opportunity to apply for employment with the new
46 Qwerty : Stlgph With Columbus having a good 700,000 population, plus several major business and companies in the area, plus the surrounding populous areas givi
47 Stlgph : Qwerty-- I'm from the heartland and have spent plenty of time in Ohio. Who cares if CMH is not a "destination" to you. It is a destination for somebod
48 Byrdluvs747 : Jettatco, I was wondering if TPG(Texas Pacific Group) was going to get into the mix. If so AirTran would be eliminated as TPG can outbid any offer mad
49 Qwerty : I'm from the heartland and have spent plenty of time in Ohio. Who cares if CMH is not a "destination" to you I always hate that. Heartland is what a p
50 N328KF : Qwerty: All good arguments for sticking with ORD/MDW.
51 Wedgetail737 : My feeling is that if HP gets ATA then they will run it for a short period of time, then dismantle it...just like AA with TWA.
52 SHUPirate1 : Wedgetail-You're missing something here. AA took on that STL hub because, at first, they wanted redundancy to relieve ORD's well-documented congestion
53 CactusHP : Doug Parker flew to IND on HP then went to MDW then back on HP this week. Heard from realible sources. CactusHP
54 CactusHP : Reportedly, he (Doug Parker) toured IND to check on and check out ATA and the fact that they have a maintenece hub there and MDW for the same reason m
55 Flyibaby : Jettaco, Mesa doesn't have the deep pockets you think it does. They are barely able to obtain financing as is for their new RJ's because their debt/as
56 Stlgph : Qwerty-- --"The average central Ohioan is an overweight lower to middle income person who doesn't travel by air that often. Plain and simple."-- Sound
57 ATAFAN : What worries me is if HP gets ATA as a whole that they will (as stated above) pull an AA move and in a few years IND has nothing. And ATA employee aga
58 Ckfred : Personally, I think HP could make MDW work. Even if the Columbus metro area is 2 million, the Chicago metro area is 7 to 8 million, and that is only C
59 SegmentKing : George wants MONEY, not stock. The only thing HP has to offer TZ is at most $100 million in cash and stock. ATA's rescheduling eff. 11 Jan 04 is being
60 Jetboyflyhi : I love Dick Dayley ..........the mayor.....lol.......I think HP has a very good chance for TZ. I also think the courts will agree..........HP has the
61 N1120a : >I don't see Detroit as being America's favorite tourist destination, and it's a -major- hub. Same for Memphis.
62 SegmentKing : my point being that there won't be much of a MDW op for HP to go after if they refile their schedules in the OAG, which takes all of 12 hours. My bet
63 N1120a : SegmentKing has the gate situation at MDW summed up as what will probably happen. FL is in a very strong financial position and they have already made
64 Jetboyflyhi : no HP will have fun wthe NEW destiations...
65 Stlgph : N1120a- Memphis is hot twice a year. Once for Elvis' birthday, and the other being the Beale Street Music Festival. Geographically, Columbus is superi
66 Midway2airtran : I wouldn't get too excited at this news. Has HP even made it publically clear what they are trying to achieve? I personally doubt HP's idea for now ti
67 N328KF : Stlgph: Nobody drives from Chicago to Indy just to get a lower fare...unless it's a lower fare on a $2000 international ticket or something. It would
68 Post contains images Byrdluvs747 : Also considering if I were a creditor to ATA, I would most likely prefer the cash positions of either AirTran or Southwest to take on those assets to
69 SegmentKing : No, TZ will eventually be merged into HP if HP gets its way, but it will be ran independent of HP until it can make their own unions happy. Btw, HP ha
70 Flyboyaz : No we have just over $400 million in unrestricted cash. I just read it in a company memo.
71 YVR2SAN : I think HP has a good shot and I'd rather see HP win the bid and grow over Air Tran, in my opinion HP is simply better. We dont yet know how HP intend
72 SegmentKing : Actually, HP has about $490 million in ASSETS according to the latest SEC filings, but cash on hand (physical CA$H) is only $280 some million... once
73 Jacobin777 : "Nobody drives from Chicago to Indy just to get a lower fare...unless it's a lower fare on a $2000 international ticket or something. It would cost $4
74 SHUPirate1 : SegmentKing-Just to correct you, according to the 10-Q released on October 27, 2004, America West Holdings had $1,577,597,000 in assets as of Septembe
75 SegmentKing : I stand corrected. The figures were from the same filing you probably saw, but were at the cash and cash reserves. Assets are in the $1.xx billion as
76 N328KF : Jacobin777: It doesn't have to be much more than $40. I have made the drive hundreds of times (oohhh, for an ORD->BMG flight!) and as long as you don'
77 Swaluvfa : The thing that a lot of you are forgetting is how much Boeing plays a factor here, and the fact that the government (due to America West's ATSB loan)
78 SegmentKing : I still stand by the following happening: 1. City of Chicago realizes the situation but does NOT allow Air Tran all of the gates. Our lil red-bellied
79 Fly_ata : I agree with Segmentking with the exception of C8. I think Chicago express stays with ATA.
80 7E72004 : Chicago Express is being dismantled and "moved" to IND; ATA will be out of MDW regardless.
81 Post contains images 7E72004 : I still think the AirTran deal will be the one to "win." I could be wrong and i will admit it when we see what the "results" are. If anything, AirTran
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