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Mexico's Unique Aviation!  
User currently offlineLeoDF From Mexico, joined Aug 1999, 359 posts, RR: 5
Posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2338 times:

Here are some Q & A's about Mexico's ridiculous aviation... Enjoy the sarcasm!

1) What country has over 100 million people and only about 5% can fly?
Mexico

2) What country has 2 different airlines run by the government and compete (even though they are uniting forces) with each other for passengers?
Mexico
Aeromexico & Mexicana

3) What country finds itself receiving one of the newest airplanes in the world (A318) yet still flies one of the oldest of this type in the world (DC-9)?
Yep... Mexico
A318 Mexicana
DC-9-15 Aerocalifornia

4) What country, as I've said before, has over 100 million people flies less than 10 widebodied aircraft?
Mexico
2 X 767-300 (Aeromexico XA-APB & Mexicana XA-MXB)
5 X 767-200 (Aeromexico XA-TNS, XA-OAM, XA-JBC, XA-TOJ, XA-RVZ)


5) What country wakes up one day with news about 5 new startups (3 in service)?
Mexico
Alliance, Aerolineas de la Provincia, Magnicharters VIP, Mesoamericanas and AVolar.

6) What country has less than 10 jets for cargo operations?
Ohh yeah... Mexico!
1 X 767 MASAir
3 X A300 Aerounion
1 X 727 Mexicana de Carga


7) What country can afford tickets on 1,500 miles segments for $700 USD?
Mexico
MEX-CUN-MEX about $7500 pesos

8) But also, what country offered $99 pesos one way tickets for a 1800 mile segment?
Mexico of course!
MEX-TIJ $99 pesos by TAESA!

9) What country can soon boast to be a 737 heaven?
That's right... Mexico!
Aviacsa, Azteca, Aeromexico, Magnicharters, Global

10) Which country will no longer have a new airport?
I think it's Mexico... Yes, thanks to those macheteros!

Do I need to say more? I don't think so... Just a bit of humour for my fellow Mexican and international friends who follow up close Mexican Aviation! Let's enjoy it at its best! We have a lot to offer!

A. De Leo
"PiloT"


Lloyd Aereo Boliviano
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6763 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2274 times:

5) What country wakes up one day with news about 5 new startups (3 in service)?
Mexico
Alliance, Aerolineas de la Provincia, Magnicharters VIP, Mesoamericanas and AVolar.


What about Mexus?



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlinePilotcoex From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2270 times:

I agree with your opinions. But we have to remember that AM and MX have to compete against the US airlines more than any other airline in the world. That's a difficult thing to do.

User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6763 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2269 times:

Can someone tell me why MX or AM doesn't have the reach that it's northern counterpart does? AC flies into a WHOLE lot of US cities.. yet MX and AM only flies into a dozen or so.. why don't they have the reach like AC? They should be having a chunk of flights in and out of CUN or MEX to all over the US...


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineNAVEGA From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2237 times:

ERJ170


They will soon, especially Mexicana.


The bilaterals are different for Mexico than they are for
Canada. Remember they have the clearance there and
it is much easier to open cities that way or at least that was
at the beginning with AC.


User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2447 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2205 times:

I agree with your opinions. But we have to remember that AM and MX have to compete against the US airlines more than any other airline in the world. That's a difficult thing to do.

Thank God they compete against somebody, if not, most people will never afford to travel in Mexico. Take my example. Two weeks ago I decided to buy a ticket for next weekend. My choices were PVR or MIA from MEX. Guess where I am going?? Well, yes, it is MIA, since PVR was $410 USD roundtrip and MIA was $250 USD roundtrip, both include taxes... AM and MX are trying to be profitable domestic in order to grow internationally and compensate US competition. That is why they will reschedule most of their domestic flights to avoid competition between each other... a true monopoly to make them profitable, because their business plan as separate carriers was a complete failure...


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5219 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2075 times:

Despite I didn't answer yesterday, but I did read and just wanted to let you know that you yesterday made my day Leo! Its sad to read this kind of comparisons!

Also let me correct a few points in SA)">Q5,6 and 9...

5) What country wakes up one day with news about 5 new startups (3 in service)?
Mexico


1. AeroTropical (their sole B732 grounded @ MEX pending government approval).

2. Polar Air which will fly as Nova Air (2 B732s which mx was given at MX are ready to fly! They're also just waiting for government approval)

3. Republic Air http://www.republicair.com.mx (their first B732 landed @ MEX past week... they will also have to wait for government approval)

3. A Volar Aerolíneas (2005 project with MD90s or B717s [what will be the sources?] and they planned to be based at TLC)

4. MesoAmericanas (with EMB135 based @ TLC and PBC)

5. Alliance (who are they?)

6. Líneas Aéreas de Provincia (I've heard they're already out of business, they didn't succeed) along with LAMCASA (Línea Aérea Mexicana de Carga SA).

7. A new start-up based at GDL (I don't know the name but I've been told they pretend to bring 2 B737-300s)

8. Am I missing another 2004 project?

6) What country has less than 10 jets for cargo operations?
Ohh yeah... Mexico!


2 X 767 MASAir (N314LA under MY c/s & CC-CZZ under LA Cargo c/s but operated by MY crews)
3 X A300 Aerounion (plus 1 rumored B763F for 05)
4 X B732 Estafeta Air Cargo (plus 2 confirmed B737-300s arriving in March 2005 and 1 rumored B752F for 2Q of 05)

Still a ridiculous fleet of only 9 jets. But perhaps a main reason could be all cargo stolen by CINTRA, which everything mainly goes in MX and AM bellies.

9) What country can soon boast to be a 737 heaven?
That's right... Mexico!


1. Aviacsa
2. Líneas Aéreas Azteca
3. Aeromexico
4. Magnicharters
5. Global Air
6. Estafeta Air Cargo
7. All start-ups mention above.


Ricardo APM




Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineFly727 From Mexico, joined Jul 2003, 1789 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2042 times:

I applaud Leo's and Ricardo's input for always showing genuine interest and for trying to be as objective and attached to reality as possible but I rather look at the glass half full....

From my perspective -when analyzing our industry- I like to think also of the small bit-sized pieces that ultimately compose the big whole which is judged in this thread. Whether if Mexicana is not flying overseas, if Aviacsa is flying older-than-I metal or if none of the new start-ups ordered the A380 reflects nothing but a part of the reality. A SUBSTANTIAL PART OF IT (I recognize that), but please, we shall read the fine print and understand that sadly, the politic environment among others of lesser importance are directing the industry. Exhibit A: The macheteros (can't agree more). Exhibit B: Cintra's incestuous way of managing its children. We could go on and on...

We barely have the airlines we can AFFORD*; and this fact does not coincide with the say that "We have the airlines we deserve". Hell no! We deserve having top-of-the-class product such as in Europe, but we also deserve their financial status which is ages from our yet-to-be-finished (and for that matter understood) economics philosophy. We deserve a free market, a deregulated environment which induces competition. We deserve fair conditions to compete. We deserve a better approach of the State (through the government) to finally achieve considering Civil Aviation as a major factor which boosts the development of the country. We deserve impartial authorities. This is a sinister chain of events and conditions which lead to the pathetic big picture we are looking. (Y no estoy inspirado en la teoría del compló de AMLO).

Sort of a right path has been barely visible in the more recent years, but Rome wasn't built in one day.

* AFFORD. How appropriate! We can afford to have AM and MX. We own them. My money, his money, her money.

What is happening in Argentina these days? Up and downs all along the way. Being so similar (although better in soccer) to us they wish they could have the strength of our domestic network. Being Argentina so incredibly beautiful, rich and vast, it is outrageous that their flag carrier was lead to die the way it did. What is going on in Chile? LAN seems to be giving the world a lesson of aviation and good looks, TRUE, but what is really going on in the internal market? Do chileans have a REAL second option besides the monster?

I don't mean to be reactionary, nor I say that the opinions are wrong (who the hell I am to do so?), but after all... what is wrong with drinking smokey coffee at Sanborns reading Reforma about five start-ups?

Let experience fill the gaps today; tomorrow we'll see.

Nite nite all....
RM  Smile



There are no stupid questions... just stupid people!
User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1964 times:

LeoDF:

Just to add some other things.....

1)The taxes applied to the air transport (new ones coming.....  Sad )

2) Because of the Petroleum based economy, there are new taxes to be payed next year due to the fall of the mexican oil prices, just check when you go to fill your car´s tank in january.....  Pissed

And some other things that i don´t remember right now, but we can add those things to the list.....


6) What country has less than 10 jets for cargo operations?
Ohh yeah... Mexico!
Still a ridiculous fleet of only 9 jets. But perhaps a main reason could be all cargo stolen by CINTRA, which everything mainly goes in MX and AM bellies.
Ghost:
The cargo business has been forgotten for a lot of years, not only by AM-MX, also by the government, that´s why now they are trying to bring back to life again the "Mexicana Cargo" concept, instead of a big A300F with only 1 ton XP, send that ton in the bellie of a almost empty A320, but i agree with you and Leo, we need to have a bigger cargo business in MEX



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineHenpol747 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 588 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1916 times:


Well, LeoDF, you really made my day. It´s ironic, what you wrote is absolutely funny!! yet it´s our pretty sad reality!! Just the mirror of Mexico´s situation nowadays!!

Truly hope to see the 777 with AM and the A330 with MX very soon!!

Cheers,

Henpol747



Vive la France! ¡Viva México!
User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1869 times:

1) What country has over 100 million people and only about 5% can fly?
Mexico

It's quite sad if you think about it. For the vast majority of our countrymen flying is just a dream and all because of the lack of a strong middle class. Let me give you and example. During the first 23 years of my life I flew only three times. Yet, during the three years I spent in America studying and half time working, I managed to fly 38 times. Why? Well, it's the economy stupid!

Greetings to all.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1829 times:

You guys are always putting down Mexican aviation.  Big grin

Bola de amargados!!! Big grin


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5219 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1792 times:

The cargo business has been forgotten for a lot of years, not only by AM-MX, also by the government, that´s why now they are trying to bring back to life again the "Mexicana Cargo" concept, instead of a big A300F with only 1 ton XP, send that ton in the bellie of a almost empty A320, but i agree with you and Leo, we need to have a bigger cargo business in MEX

As I previously said, cargo business has not been forgotten at all by AM or MX. According to MEX 2003 stats, AM ranks 1st followed by MY and MX in 3rd place. Here's a link with more accurate numbers:

http://www.transportesxxi.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4149

And worldwide AM in 2003 made it to the TOP100 list and ranks 90. They advance one position compared to 2002 were they ended in 91.

What 'Mexicana Cargo' project are you talking about? LAMCASA? LAMCASA has nothing to do with MX. Im a close friend of the grand-son of the owner who unfortunately passed away a few days ago and unfortunately their sole B727 will not leave the ground!

Ricardo APM




Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1768 times:

As long as corruption thrives it will be damn difficult to give a step ahead. It's sad to see AM hoping to get TWO 777's. Wow, we'll be in the same status as in 1974 when XA-DUG and XA-DUH arrived... On the other hand Swissair, Sabena and the likes are dead... It's a hard bussiness and surviving is an achievement in itself. Greetings to all. Don't loose hope.

User currently offlineAdriaticus From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1137 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1759 times:

20041208

Cargo can be the driver for many interesting developments... A hugely unexploited market in Mexico, discussed before:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1688246

Greetings from MIA
__Ad.

[Edited 2004-12-08 07:18:44]


A300/18/19/20/21 B721/2 B732/3/G/8 B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 DC8/9/10 MD11 TU134/154 IL62/86 An24 SA340/2000 E45/90
User currently offlineMiguel0881 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1742 times:

>6) What country has less than 10 jets for cargo operations?
>Ohh yeah... Mexico!
>1 X 767 MASAir
>3 X A300 Aerounion
>1 X 727 Mexicana de Carga

Isn't ESTAFETA a Mexican cargo operator? How many planes do they have?


User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1776 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1738 times:

Isn't ESTAFETA a Mexican cargo operator? How many planes do they have?
I think they got 4 (maybe less) 737s based at San Luis Potosi but don't quote me on this one.


User currently offlineNAVEGA From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1705 times:

FLY2HMO

Your right but from reading any forum discussion on Mexico
there is always anger, sinicizm and badmouthing about
Mexicos government and their airlines.

It adds to the fun and is a quite interesting.



User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1686 times:

Ghost:

Time ago there was a Cargo division in MX, when Aeromexpress was created they leave all the cargo to they, but they have some trouble running the business, that´s why they are trying to bring back that division, feeded by Aeromexpress.

Fly2HMO:

Not putting down mexican aviation, only the numbers and how can it be, the best scenario, because we can be worse  Sad

Regards

Logan.



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineHenpol747 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 588 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1672 times:

Aren´t estafeta´s planes based at TIJ?


Vive la France! ¡Viva México!
User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1658 times:

I dunno about TIJ, but ESTAFOTA  Big grin has a pretty strong presence in HMO.

User currently offlineLeoDF From Mexico, joined Aug 1999, 359 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1626 times:

Hi all!

Sorry if this thread does seem to be same old same old, but as FLY2HMO says: it's fun... At least we 2 think it is!

N405MX: true, we could be worse. But, we could be a hell lot better! Porque ser conformistas? We know the market could be right for Mexican airlines to grow faster! Es lo que yo considero el "alli se va" clasico del mexicano! Pobres de nosotros con ese dicho!!

Claro, yo tambien la he aplicado, pero como que no me siento bien por ello! Seguimos siendo conformistas!!

Anyway, yes if we count Estafeta's 4 737's, that brings our total of cargo airplanes (plus of course all the little jets and avionetas) to....

NINE!!! NO WAY!!

Ohh yeah.. Whatever happened to Aeropostal's DC-8? This could be our number 10!!!

Well, thank you all for the feedback, there are a lot of new entrants or possible new entrants, hope to see them soon over Mexican skies or even beyond! That would be nice!

Anyone interested in creating a new LLC in Mexico? I would be glad to hear ideas!!

A. De Leo
"PiloT"



Lloyd Aereo Boliviano
User currently offlineORDAgent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1618 times:

The Mexican economy and social system have always puzzled me. Mexico has huge oil reserves (mis)managed by a government monopoly and universal literacy and easy access to heath care is a far way off? Every time I am in Mexico the psychosis of a country with one foot in the modern industrial 21'st century and the other foot in a rural peasant economy frightens me. A country with such vast human and natural resources deserves better and not just in aviation!

Andrew


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5219 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1585 times:

Time ago there was a Cargo division in MX, when Aeromexpress was created they leave all the cargo to they, but they have some trouble running the business, that´s why they are trying to bring back that division, feeded by Aeromexpress.

WTF?? AeroMexpress cargo re-launching? I'll remain skeptical about this one! I also remember being told at the begging of this year that they wanted to fly by the end of with a pair of B757Fs but I sincerely doubt they'll return.

Scenario definitely could be worst but as Leo says we deserve much more, not only because we are being optimistic, but we here all know we have more potential to offer! That's a for sure thing! That's what CINTRA leaders should be doing! Focusing a little more on Mexico's internal market trying to develop regional aviation (to feed more flights in GDL, MTY, HMO, CUN...), the creation of a big and respected cargo division. That's were we should be heading to!

Ohh yeah.. Whatever happened to Aeropostal's DC-8? This could be our number 10!!!

Owner of the company sold the plane and brand a few days ago. The Dc8 was ferried to TLC two weeks ago. That was the last thing I heard.


Finally more comparisons that came to my mind...

11) Which country has the largest BIZJET fleet worldwide after the USA?
Yes... Mexico.

12) What country ranks 10 in world's largest economies?
Yes... Mexico again!


Ricardo APM




Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineLeoDF From Mexico, joined Aug 1999, 359 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1546 times:

Right on Ricardo! I like your Q's and A's!

Sad to hear about Aeropostal!
Hey maybe there are some other ideas to add to the ironical Q's and A's?

Please post if you have any!

A. De Leo
"PiloT"



Lloyd Aereo Boliviano
25 Henpol747 : ORDAgent, you are absolutely right! We do, as the big nation we are, deserve better!!! A HUEVO!!!!! Cheers, Henpol747
26 Nwafflyer : Oh dear, what about aeromar? Are they still a carrier out of one of Mexico's biggest automotive supplier markets?
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