Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why Not Non-stop Service Between MEX/TGU  
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3495 times:

Based on a previous thread, I'm just wondering why TGU is the only Central American Capital with no direct [non stop] service to MEX?

The only chances are ussing TA or CM with at least two stops over [MGA and SJO].

We must add a very long flight 9 to 11 hours.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCheco77 From Peru, joined Oct 2004, 1345 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3437 times:

I guess it is because there is no demand between TGU-MEX. Otherwise, airlines (AM, MX, TA) would start non-stop flights.
Another reason (maybe) is because Tincontin is a very difficult airport to land (I heard only pilots with a special, extra qualification can fly to TGU). Also, I guess that from San Pedro Sula, there is a non-stop to MEX (if I´m wrong, please correct me) so people from TGU can drive to San Pedro Sula and then fly to MEX- it is more time-saving than flying 11 hours.
Regards,
Adam



Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
User currently offlineCheco77 From Peru, joined Oct 2004, 1345 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3430 times:

To what I previously said:
I couldn´t find any non-stop between SAP and MEX. So sorry about the non sense I said above.
Also, I found that people travelling TGU-MEX can connect in SAL or MIA, making it a 5 or 6 hours flight including connections (all done by TA or AA).
Regards, and sorry for the wrong thing I said
Adam



Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2004 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3422 times:

TGU-MEX might be a possible route for Aerohonduras. I mean, if they manage one day to start their DC9 operations...

User currently offlineHr001 From Honduras, joined Nov 2004, 303 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3414 times:

Demand could support 3 times a week service maybe, the problem in Honduras is that traffic is split up between Sap and Tgu. both cannot support direct service together yes, but is is more cost efficient for the Airlines to send the traffic thru their hubs rather than a flight which would need to make two stops to make the flight profitable. And the limitations of The TGU aiport for example makes the flight longer to TACA passengers because no way to connect to TGU in the evening.

User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3329 times:

Basically one of the problems are, the infrastructure of Toncontin, and supremacy of San Pedro de Sula.

User currently offlineCheco77 From Peru, joined Oct 2004, 1345 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3316 times:

Infrastructure in TGU is very bad, a friend who went to Honduras 2 years ago said that the airlport was awful and very small being the principal airport of a capital city.
I hope Hondurans will invest in remodeling Toncontin or making a new airport.
Regards,
Adam



Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3305 times:

"I guess it is because there is no demand between TGU-MEX"

Hi Checo,

MEX is the third most demanded destination of Hondurans. Only MSY and MIA, has more demand. Unbelievable, but if you want to go from TGU to MEX, you can expect a very long trip.

I don't see the possibility of a new airport "inside the city" like Toncontin is. It must be like the concept of SAL. They took away commercial flights from the old Ilopango inside the city, and built a huge terminal close to coast, about 45 minutes from downtown.


User currently offlineJoseMEX From Mexico, joined Oct 1999, 1539 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3292 times:

Honduran carrier TAN used to fly between MEX and Honduras in the 70's, although I don't remember if the flights were to TGU or SAP or if they made a stop someplace. Does anyone know?

What I do remember is that, incredibly, TAN's flight was the only scheduled 737 into MEX for many years. Not until CO received their first 733's and started flying them into MEX, followed by other US carriers, did the 737 start to become quite common sight there (or here Smile?).


User currently offlineBritmex From Mexico, joined Nov 2000, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3268 times:

YES IT IS TRUE!!!!!

Seeing that 737 was a huge event for me as little boy. It was just like seeing a shrunk 707! At that time I thought 737`s were quite rare...
WELL....I didn`t know!!!

britmex

ps ...and also thought that the Caravelle was an older version of the DC-9!



Aeromexico, la linea aerea que va para arriba
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7569 posts, RR: 43
Reply 10, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3222 times:

AM had plans to start flights to SAP from MEX, MID and CUN but they never materialized. I guess flying TA via SAL is the best option available at the moment.

On the other hand, MEX might be the third most important destination for Hondurans, but I don't think there is a lot of demand to Honduras from Mexico.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3198 times:

Edddiedude;

I agree with you that maybe there is not a lot of demand to Honduras from Mexico, but the problem is not SAP is TGU.


User currently offlineHr001 From Honduras, joined Nov 2004, 303 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3197 times:

The AM plans were scrapped by the same problem, neither TGU or SAP can sustain a flight by themselves. Only combined. From SAP TACA is the "only" option unless you want to travel thru IAH or MIA on CO or AA. From TGU you can go either on TACA or COPA. going to MEX TACA offers a better choice but on the way back COPA offers a faster connection.

Josemex: TAN's 737 flew MIA-TGU-SAP-MEX-TGU-SAP-MIA Three times a week.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bob Holland



User currently offlineSFOMEX From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3166 times:

Well, if MEX is flying daily to Quito and Guayaquil, Ecuador; I don't see why they couldn't do the same flying to Honduras, stopping both at TGU and SAP. Is the Ecuadorian (sp) market bigger that the Hondurian?

User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3125 times:

Is Aerohonduras supposed to fly in a near future non stop to MEX?

User currently offlineBaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2028 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

Only one person has considered the one right reason why a nonstop from MEX-TGU could not operate. The airport.

The entire problem at TGU is the runway. Not only is it short, but it is in a state of relative disrepair. Only an aircraft that is light can land there safely. Even more important is the weight restriction required taking off. No aircraft can depart TGU for more than a 30-40 min flight plus reserves with full payload and get off the runway. Even then, its a break release flap 20 take off with wheels up just 100 feet short of the end of the runway before you fall off the cliff.

TAN never operated TGU-MEX nonstop, they flew it via SAP. TACA flew it via (and still does via SAL). However, the connecting time at SAL is quite long, which is why it is a 9 or 10 hour ordeal to get to MEX. There is also no jet service between TGU and MGA now, so unless you want to fly a very small prop over the mountains between TGU and MGA, you have to go to SAL and connect.

These days, with the dominance of TACA and COPA, most long haul traffic bound for North and South America connects out of Central America via SAL or PTY. The notable exceptions are the flights to MIA, in which all Central American countries have one to five flights per day direct.

I remember my last flight into Tegucigalpa. I swore it would be my last. I flew out on TACA from Miami, which at that time has a flight operating MIA-BZE-SAP-TGU-SAL. I was getting off in TGU. Flight normal leaving Miami. The landing in Belize was only something Central American machismo could pull off. We entered the cloud layer at 10000ft into heavy turbulence. The rain was coming down so hard you could not see the end of the wing. For 15 minutes we flew through this muck and made a turn to final at 1000 feet when we made sighted the ground. Another forward push of the engines and we were down. It was raining buckets.

After a 20 minute ground stop, we were off again in the pouring rain, this time for San Pedro. Steep climb out and turn and 10 minutes we were out of the weather and into beautiful sunshine of the midday. The San Pedro part of the flight was normal: Easy landing, drop and pickup passengers. Then off for Tegucigalpa.

This is where things got interesting. SAP to TGU takes all of about 15 minutes in the air. However, once you get to TGU, you fly one or two circuits of the airport to visually inspect conditions. Security there is not the best and you do get the occasional goat, chicken or yes, even a cow, that strays onto the runway. Plus, we were a little heavy with fuel, so we had to burn it off (can't dump over TGU). Once we were ready, we were told to strap in tight as we were going to feel a lot of breaking and reverse thrust. The only problem was, the pilot landed long. He realized his mistake immediately and powered up and lifted off slowly. Finally, he got back up to a safe altitude and went around for another try.

This next try was it before we had to divert, because we did not have enough fuel for another attempt. This time, he shot the approach very low. We touched down before the runway numbers and shoved the breaks and the reverse thrusters. He used every inch of that runway to stop. We made a 180 u-turn on the runway, taxied into the gate and we staggered off the plane.

That airport is an accident waiting to happen and I think the airlines that operate there are reducing their liability by not flying there. Don't blame them.
I won't go there again. I suspect a lot of others won't either, which is why a commercial venture right



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5217 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3117 times:

Well, if MEX is flying daily to Quito and Guayaquil, Ecuador; I don't see why they couldn't do the same flying to Honduras, stopping both at TGU and SAP. Is the Ecuadorian (sp) market bigger that the Hondurian?

Honduras population: 6,823,568. (July 2004 est.)
GDP: $17.55 billion (2004 est.)

Ecuador population: 13,212,742 (July 2004 est.)
GDP: $45.65 billion (2004 est.)

Source: www.cia.gov

Definitely Ecuador has much more to offer than Honduras!

Ricardo APM




Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3093 times:

"There is also no jet service between TGU and MGA now, so unless you want to fly a very small prop over the mountains between TGU and MGA, you have to go to SAL and connect."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not non-stop, but CM offers a 73G service on a daily basis. The problem: more than 6 hours to get from one point to another.


User currently offlineWhiskeyhotel From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 274 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3081 times:

Checo, driving between Tegu and SPS is not really an option for most travellers. I spent a summer living in Comayagua, which is about a third of the way from Tegu to SPS. I went on an excursion to Copan with some friends one weekend, and the drive from Comayagua to SPS alone took about 4.5 hours. The terrain between Tegu and SPS is very rugged and honduran drivers are an absolute nightmare. Never in my life have I seen three buses all trying to pass each other on winding mountain roads. Absolute madness. I had some interesting flying experiences in Honduras as well, aside from the spectacular landing at TGU. Took my first ATR flight with Taca from TGU to La Ceiba, then switched over to a Czech made aircraft with Islena airlines (don't remember the type) for a flight from there to Guanaja, with a stop in Roatan (Where the prop hit a fairly large bird on landing, splattering my window with blood). The flight back from Guanaja to La Ceiba was in a single-engine Cessna (was about an eight-seater as I recall). Landing in TGU is indeed spectacular, but a takeoff from La Ceiba is a marvel as well...very steep climbout over the coastal mountain range

User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3082 times:


Some very interesting observations made here. Let me add some points as well.

First of all, for going from TGU to MEX (or about anywhere), it´s not that bad. You have the TA214 early morning hop to SAL, 0700-0745 which connects to TA´s main departure bank. Hence, you´ll be in MEX at about 1200 after 5 hours travel time.

The return is a bit more complicated, but still bearable too: you´ll route through GUA and SAP, leaving at 1500, arriving at 2050, i.e. just shy of six hours.

So, O/D Honduras-MEX and vice versa is not really a problem. However, the lack of a direct flight harms MEX´s potential as a intercontinental hub. Many Hondurans have to avoid MIA for connexions nowadays, due to the US´ restrictive visa policy. However, doing Honduras-Europe via MEX results in an eight hour layover eastbound. And if you´re not on the IB flight which arrives at MEX in the early morning, you need to stay overnight.
I see a potential there, since I´ve personally seen Hondurans go to great lengths to avoid the US. For example, on the TA214 TGU-SAL I sat next to a lady who had to go to GVA on short notice. Her routing was TGU-SAL-SJO-CCS-MXP-GVA. Poor thing...



>>>From TGU you can go either on TACA or COPA. going to MEX TACA offers
a better choice but on the way back COPA offers a faster connection.

How´s that? Because of the short layover (1035-1100) at PTY, no reservation system will find a MEX-TGU connexion on CM. Or can an agent manually override this?

>>>Is Aerohonduras supposed to fly in a near future non stop to MEX?

I´ve never seen any mention of this, just GUA, MGA, PTY and SJO. All ex SAP, fed from TGU via the old TGU-SAP-MIA 737 flight - with some very inconvenient connexion times.


>>>The entire problem at TGU is the runway. Not only is it short, but it is in a state of relative disrepair.

Hey, 6334 ft/ 1930 m is not that short  Laugh out loud Seriously, though, it doesn´t seem to be in such a bad state.


>>>No aircraft can depart TGU for more than a 30-40 min flight plus reserves with full payload and get off the runway.

So how come TA 320s and AA 757s make it nonstop to MIA? These flights are reasonably booked.


>>>However, the connecting time at SAL is quite long, which is why it is a 9 or 10 hour ordeal to get to MEX.

Nope, see above.


>>>There is also no jet service between TGU and MGA now, so unless you want to fly a very small prop over the mountains between TGU and MGA, you have to go to SAL and connect.

... for a very convenient 2.30 hours total travel time.


>>>However, once you get to TGU, you fly one or two circuits of the airport to visually inspect conditions. Security there is not the best and you do get the occasional goat, chicken or yes, even a cow, that strays onto the runway.

Don´t know, this might have been the case 20 years ago, but nowadays you won´t find a goat, chicken or cow anywhere near the airport, let alone on the runway.
Also, the "circuits to visually inspect conditions" just the normal approach paths. You come from the North, fly parallel to the runway, do two 90 degree turns and land on runway 01. That´s owed to the mountains, not animals...


>>>That airport is an accident waiting to happen

No it´s not. The last passenger airliner to crash at TGU was in 1989.


>>>people from TGU can drive to San Pedro Sula

>>>Checo, driving between Tegu and SPS is not really an option for most travellers.

Yes and no. It certainly is a pain, but people do it on a regular basis. The multiple Hedman luxury bus departures are well booked.


>>>The terrain between Tegu and SPS is very rugged and honduran drivers are an absolute nightmare. Never in my life have I seen three buses all trying to pass each other on winding mountain roads. Absolute madness.

Been there, done that. And the next day, you´ll get the pics of all the accident victims in gory graphic details on TVC and the newspapers. Terrible.


>>>I spent a summer living in Comayagua, which is about a third of the way from Tegu to SPS.

Oh, poor chap. I spent an afternoon there. After maybe half an hour my pals and me were like "so, we heading back or what?"


>>> I had some interesting flying experiences in Honduras as well, aside from the spectacular landing at TGU. Took my first ATR flight with Taca from TGU to La Ceiba, then switched over to a Czech made aircraft with Islena airlines (don't remember the type) for a flight from there to Guanaja,

That would have been the Let 410 Turbolet. Islena don´t operate that type any more, they just have ATR42, Shorts 360, Cessna 208.


>>>The flight back from Guanaja to La Ceiba was in a single-engine Cessna (was about an eight-seater as I recall).

Yup, the 208 Grand Caravan.


>>> a takeoff from La Ceiba is a marvel as well...very steep climbout over the coastal mountain range

Agree, just great, the mountain range with Pico Bonito et al on one side, the Atlantic on the other one. Very scenic.


Daniel Smile


User currently offlineLatinAviation From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1276 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3066 times:

The entire problem at TGU is the runway. Not only is it short, but it is in a state of relative disrepair. Only an aircraft that is light can land there safely. Even more important is the weight restriction required taking off. No aircraft can depart TGU for more than a 30-40 min flight plus reserves with full payload and get off the runway.

I wouldn't consider an AA 757 exactly light and have never been on a weight restricted flight on AA out of TGU on the 757. On the 727-100, yes. CM takes weight restrictions almost regularly for the short hop to SJO. CO had some issues with the 733 but the 737-700 seemed to ease those problems.

The runway condition itself is fine, if a little bumpy, but certainly CO and AA would not be flying into an airport with a runway that is in a state of disrepair. There are no landing lights, to be certain, but they don't operate the airport after dusk. I wouldn't call it a modern airport by any means, but I would exactly right it off, either.

I think the reason there is no direct non-stop is not solely because of the airport. MX or AM could operate MEX-TGU-SAP-MEX just fine. I think there are a host of reasons, not the least is that there is probably a small market, overall, that is being served via CM and TA right now. Honduras also has the highest aviation fuel costs in Central America, it's not a cheap operation by any means.

It's not like there haven't been some attempts, either. Back in '99/'00 Aerocaribe operated CUN-SAP with a J-31. Not a non-stop to MEX, but you could make a quick cnx to MEX on AM/MX from CUN. That route got axed six months after it started.

Perhaps AeroHonduras will start something, or at least provide a better connection via Aeropostal de Centro America in SJO. Alternatively, Atlantic is looking to expand in the region with their 732s and they've recently operated a charter to CUN... so perhaps MEX isn't far behind? Just a thought.


User currently offlineHr001 From Honduras, joined Nov 2004, 303 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3064 times:

baw716: CO flies TGU-IAH nonstop year round only on some very hot days in the summer it stops at SAP for fuel, 2 hrs 45 min flight, AA flies to MIA nonstop also, and TACA flies nonstop to MIA 3 times a week. MEX- TGU is shorter . A 737-700 or A A-319 wouldn´t have too many restrictions to fly TGU-MEX nonstop. The demand is simply not there neither from SAP or TGU. COPA operated SAP-MEX for several years but it was cut. Another problem has been FARES when only TACA was on the Market a ticket was around $600 so not too many Hondurans wanted to go visit Mexico and viceversa With COPA now on the TGU market fares are around 350-400. Still high but 25% lower.

The Airport surely is a limitation, but if the demand was there the flights would be.

Whiskey hotel: TGU to SAP by land is 3.5 to 4.00 hours Comayagua SAP is 2.5 to 3 not 4.5.


User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3030 times:

Why is the operation restriction of TGU after 18:00?

Last time I was there, about six months ago, we MUST be out of there not later than that time, for some kind of restriction(s).


By the way, I barely remember that the runway has no lights. Can any one confirm this?


User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3018 times:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © William L.B.J. Dekker





View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © William L.B.J. Dekker





View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © William L.B.J. Dekker




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Thomas D. Mayes, Jr.




View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Thomas D. Mayes, Jr.



I know that is hard to see through some pics, if Toncontin´s runway has or not lights, but here you have some that apparently support my thesis.


User currently offlineHr001 From Honduras, joined Nov 2004, 303 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (9 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3014 times:

No lights?? How does TACA 702 operate every night? leaves for GUA at 21:10.

The DHL ATR-42 plus two other cargo let 410's leave around 19:00.


The airport is restricted to passenger jet aircraft after dusk, props can operate at night. Several landing aid lights in towers are being installed in the mountains close to runway 01 to enhance safety in night landings.
(a donation by the japanese government by the way)The terminal expansion is FINALLY going ahead rapidly.

Latin aviation: perhaps TGU-MEX can be a route for CM EMB-190's in the future??


25 Francoflier : TGU does have runway lights, and taxiway lights, and everything you could ask for as far as lighting goes, considering the surrounding terrain of cour
26 LatinAviation : The airport is restricted to passenger jet aircraft after dusk, props can operate at night. Several landing aid lights in towers are being installed i
27 Baw716 : I stand corrected on the TGU MIA and TGU IAH nonstops. I remember now that AA operates a 757 into TGU. Of course, you can launch a 757 with a full pay
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
EK Launches Non-Stop Service Between Gulf & Aus posted Wed Oct 17 2001 23:09:32 by 9v-spk
Why No Non-stop LAS-OKC Service? posted Thu Feb 24 2005 16:20:09 by Pe@rson
Southwest Adds Non-stop Flights Between BWI-DTW posted Thu Jul 6 2006 17:27:32 by Stl1326
AC Non-stop Service Kelowna - Toronto? posted Thu Feb 2 2006 20:38:29 by Threepoint
Finally: El Al To Being MIA-TLV Non-stop Service posted Sat Jan 7 2006 04:31:32 by MAH4546
Any Demand For A Europe To HNL Non-stop Service? posted Sat Sep 10 2005 16:16:57 by N593HA
Why No Non-stop JFK-JNB? posted Sun Aug 7 2005 21:22:21 by AA767400
Non-stop Service US To India posted Tue May 3 2005 04:24:50 by Jimbobjoe
Why Not MCO-LHR Service? posted Mon Mar 14 2005 21:55:20 by DLX737200
Berlin To Get Non-stop Service To The US posted Fri Jul 30 2004 14:30:54 by FRAflyer