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Why Do Airlines Operate Out Of Both JFK And EWR  
User currently offlineAirWales From UK - Wales, joined Oct 2004, 453 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9065 times:

Hi,

Just wondering what the main reason why airlines (non US) such as BA and VS operate of of both EWR and JFK to Heathrow for example. Is it necessary for 1 airline to operate out of 2 airports in the same city which then arrive in the same city? Is it due to landing/departure slots or some other reason.

Thanks.

P.s. whilst we are on this, which airlines operate along these lines (Only airlines which are not from the country in which the airport in question lies).

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8995 times:

The NYC tri-State are (New York, New Jersey, Connecticut) is huge and sprawled out, and driving from New Jersey to JFK and vice versa can anywhere from 90 minutes to three hours in bad weather.

JFK caters to folks on the East Side of Manhattan, as well as the boroughs of Queens, Brooklyn and the suburbs of Long Island.

EWR caters to Northern New Jersey, the West Side of Manhattan, Northern Suburbs of Rockland and Orange Counties NY, Staten Island and Eastern Pennsylvania.

JFK and EWR split traffic from Westchester and Fairfield County Connecticut.

Northern New Jersey (EWR) is a market upon itself with 8 million inhabitants and major Corporate Headquarters including BASF, Honeywell, Merck, Bristol Meyers Squib, At&t, Lucent, Johnson & Johnson etc..

Also many other pharmeceutical and Bio-med companies have facilities along the Princeton University/Route 1 research corridor.

That business will not go to JFK, too long of a drive.





Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8981 times:

For the same reason why BA operates out of both LGW and LHR to places.... there is demand, and the airports are far enough apart that it is definitely more convenient to go to/from one particular airport over another depending on where you're going to or coming from.


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2104 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8950 times:

TWFirst, not strictly true with BA. It tried the dual hub approach in the late 1990s and it wasn't working. Very few routes of BA's overlap at LHR and LGW and the majority of those are domestic.

BA serves IAD and BWI, catering for the Washington Metropolitan area.

Shorthaul it used to serve CDG and ORY, but now just CDG. MXP and LIN both enjoy BA service from LHR, LIN being more popular with business travellers due to its closer proximity to Milan.

CO used to serve STN as well as LGW, to cater for the North East London market, plus East of England, but the service didn't last long.

SQ serves EWR with its nonstop SIN-EWR service but JFK with its SIN-FRA-JFK one.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8933 times:

KL also operates AMS-JFK with the 747, and AMS-EWR with the 767.

Rgs,


User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8897 times:


Count AF and AZ on that list also.



SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineMark777300 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8870 times:

while NYC itself lies between JFK and EWR, there is a huge market in this region and both airports are in truth serving different regions of the tri-state area. for example, I live by the border of Queens county and Nassau county, only a 5 minute drive to JFK, a 10 minute drive to LGA. EWR however is an almost 60 minute drive. People who live in Queens, Brooklyn and Long Island would be better served by flying into JFK or LGA (ISP as well). People who live in NW and central NJ would be closer and better served by EWR. There is an equally huge population on both sides of the Hudson River that can support the services of an airline flying into both JFK and EWR and even additionally LGA. For folks in Manhattan, you have three options to choose from which are all convienient. AA, UA, DL, and NW all fly into all three airports. CO hub is in EWR, a sizeable presence in LGA, but only a hand full of flights to JFK. US Airways flies into LGA and EWR. This is probably the biggest market served in the US when you factor in the population of NY/LI, Connecticut, and Northern/ central NJ.

User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8862 times:

There are plenty of airlines that serve both ORD and MDW:

AA
CO
DL
NW
UA



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4417 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8859 times:

Because unless there is absolutely NO other alternative, people who would otherwise use JFK will not use EWR, and vice versa.


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8846 times:

Let's not forget that there are five NYC-area airports:

EWR
HPN
ISP
JFK
LGA



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8819 times:

FlyCaledonian:

Bad example on my part... a better example would be to cite AA serving both LHR & LGW.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineIowa744fan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8805 times:

Virgin Atlantic (VS) flies to both JFK and EWR from LHR.
LOT flies to Warsaw from both JFK and EWR.
El Al flies to both JFK and EWR from TLV

Except for SQ, I don't think that any Asian carriers fly to both. Eva and Malaysian fly into EWR, but neither serves JFK...unless with cargo flights.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8773 times:

"Let's not forget that there are five NYC-area airports:

EWR
HPN
ISP
JFK
LGA "

There are four real NYC Metro Airports operated by the Port Authority, two in New Jersey and two in NYC.

New Jersey has..

Newark which gets the best mix of International and Domestic flights, plus has the CO hub.

And Teterboro which is Gulfstream heaven, major Corporate FBO airport. Celebrities and Corporate Power brokers heading to and from NYC fly GV's etc into Teterboro and then helicopters into Manhattan.

NYC has..

Laguardia, which is a business oriented regional airport with flights limited to no more than 1,500 miles with some exceptions.

JFK, International heavy but Domestic network is limited to mostly leisure destinations (Florida, Las Vegas, California) and anything else that cannot be served by LGA.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8774 times:

P.s. whilst we are on this, which airlines operate along these lines (Only airlines which are not from the country in which the airport in question lies).

Mentioned above: KL, AF, AZ

Additions: AI, LX, SQ, LH, BA, VS, AC, LY

Please add any I forgot...

(Edit: Sorry was typing this while Iowa744fan posted so didn't get to include his in the "Mentioned above")

Mike



[Edited 2004-12-06 23:35:40]

User currently offlineCOEWRNJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1065 posts, RR: 18
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8761 times:

Here's a quick example. My parents refuse to have me fly into either JFK LGA> as I live about 15 min from EWR. This Thanksgiving my HP flight from EWR to LAS was delayed and the only chance that I had to make my connection was from JFK. Now I didn't think my parents would have a problem driving me out there, but instead they took me to EWR and put me on the shuttle. The shuttle ride from EWR took almost two hours and if your paying tolls its close to $20. JFK is and will always be the last resort for them. They will pretty much do anything not to use JFK. Most people I know in my area are pretty much the same in that regard.

[Edited 2004-12-06 23:48:30]

User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2104 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8750 times:

TWFirst, its another bad example I'm afraid, as AA is forced by Bermuda II to serve both LGW and LHR. It cannot operate its RDU and DFW flights to LHR as neither are a US gateway from there for a US carrier. It's why UA doesn't operate a London service from Denver as it can't serve LHR, so would have to serve LGW (Which if it did would force BA to switch its DEN service back to LGW).

AA did I believe operate a BOS-LGW flight a couple of years back, for at least one summer season. I assume it was to add capacity to London but it didn't have an LHR slot.

VS did operate from LHR and LGW to EWR but since 9/11 it only serves EWR from LHR, relying on its codeshare with CO to serve LGW from the New York area.

BA serves IAH from LHR and LGW, but the former routes via ORD (Again can't be nonstop under Bermuda II) and is mainly to provide connections to BA's flights to LOS and the Middle East for oil executives.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8750 times:

International Airlines that serve both EWR and JFK;

Alitalia, British Airways, Air France, KLM, Swiss, Lufthansa, Singapore, Lot Polish, Virgin Atlantic, Air Jamaica, Air India, CSA Czech Air, El Al.

International Airlines that serve EWR but not JFK;

Air Canada, SAS, EVA Airways, Malaysian, TAP Air Portugal, (Ethiopian?).

EWR lost a couple of airlines after 9-11 that have yet to come back;

Korean, Aer Lingus, Avianca, and Sabena (who's no gone).




Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAlespesl From Czech Republic, joined Jan 2004, 583 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8722 times:

CSA Czech Airlines also flies both JFK and EWR airports.


Next Flight: Dec 06 PRG-WAW ATR72, Dec 07 WAW-PRG ATR42 with Czech Airlines.
User currently offlineCOEWRNJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1065 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8715 times:

AC serves JFK daily to YVR and Ethiopian will be leaving EWR shortly.

User currently offlinePetazulu From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8693 times:

I think Air Canada flies Vancouver - JFK. At least they did!

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8684 times:

You cannot compare EWR and JFK with LHR and LGW as LHR is severely restricted and limited where as anyone can fly to either EWR, JFK or both.

EWR and JFK are unique in the World as being two major International Airports serving the same region as close as they are (mileage wise) , EWR and JFK are exactly the same distance from Mid-Town Manhattan (15 Miles).






Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8673 times:

Yes, AC is still flying daily A319 service to/from JFK.

Mike


User currently offlineCOEWRNJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1065 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8675 times:

AC still flys to JFK from YVR as AC548 and AC549

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8666 times:

"I think Air Canada flies Vancouver - JFK "

Seasonaly, I believe right now they don't but may restart the flight in June.?..



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8655 times:

Seasonaly, I believe right now they don't but may restart the flight in June.?..

No, they are flying it year round AFAIK.

Here's an Avail. for tomorrow:
17DECYVRJFK‡AC«
YVR-SEE TX*YVR RE 5-15.00 FEE
07DEC TUE YVR/PST JFK/EST‡3
1AC 548 J0 C0 Y9 M9 U9*YVRJFK 215P 1019P 319 M 0 DCA /E
A9 B9 V9 Q9 L9 R9 I9 N9 G0

Visual aid : )
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael F. McLaughlin




Mike

[Edited 2004-12-06 23:57:21]

25 COEWRNJ : YVR is currently still operating. I took the flight numbers from the PANYNJ's website using today's date.
26 Post contains images Stealthpilot : Iowa744fan: "Except for SQ, I don't think that any Asian carriers fly to both. Eva and Malaysian fly into EWR, but neither serves JFK...unless with ca
27 BIGBlack : It's already been answered prob the best by STT but Newark is close to NYC but JFK and EWR are totally on in 2 different places location wise as far a
28 MAH4546 : Except for SQ, I don't think that any Asian carriers fly to both. Eva and Malaysian fly into EWR, but neither serves JFK...unless with cargo flights.
29 Iluv747400 : Mexicana recently switched from EWR to JFK.
30 Flyguy1 : ET will be leaving EWR soon, at that point they're only US gateway will be IAD.
31 NAVEGA : AirWales, It is very difficult for people to understand the east coast of the United States that is probably one of the most populated areas in the wo
32 AirWales : Yeah thanks, great answers guys. Think we must of covered all the airlines operating out of the 2 by now.
33 Dkny : ET left EWR October 1, 2004
34 Rwylie77 : TWFirst - No, the American airlines example is another bad idea, because they would prefer all of their flights to go into Heathrow but have to use G
35 JoFMO : @NAVEGA: I think we all here on the other side of the pond understand very well what the east coast corridor NYC-PHL-WAS is like. The situation with J
36 Rwylie77 : Also I think don't think Gatwick and Heathrow are comparable. They are only a 30 minute drive apart around the M25, where Newark and JFK are on opposi
37 Pilatusguy : Another example: Business people who have to go to Manhattan (personally doing that alot) would opt for EWR because you get to Manhattan faster than f
38 Mikephotos : Business people who have to go to Manhattan (personally doing that alot) would opt for EWR because you get to Manhattan faster than from JFK (my perso
39 N62NA : I do a huge amount of bookings NY-Westcoast (LAX/SFO), 90% of my travelers prefer JFK over EWR because of frequency of flights and their loyalty to U
40 JoFMO : @Pilatusguy: I have a similar feeling like you. Swiss is just the last in a line who focus it's business passengers in EWR. LH's all business flights
41 Post contains images LUV4JFK : Trust me when I say as a native New Yorker, it's all about the traffic. Every car, truck, bus, van, train & taxi are heading into Manhattan. The drive
42 Elwood64151 : The NYC tri-State are (New York, New Jersey, Connecticut) is huge and sprawled out, and driving from New Jersey to JFK and vice versa can anywhere fro
43 JoFMO : @Elwood: Regarding the size of Tokyo and New York I had the following figures: The US census bureau sais that the New York standard metropolitan area
44 Post contains links N328KF : JoFMO: It's really a single megalopolis running from Boston through NYC, Trenton, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and ending at Washington, D.C. 44 million p
45 TWFirst : >It's really a single megalopolis running from Boston through NYC, Trenton, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and ending at Washington, D.C.
46 Airbazar : LUV4JFk has nailed it on the head. It's all about the traffic. The NY/NJ market is not that much larger than say London or Tokyo, however in the US th
47 Avek00 : "Come on, UA and AA - (well probably just AA, since UA seems to have given up on EWR), upgrade your EWR transcon service!" Why? During the 2000 SFH, t
48 JoFMO : Well, I travelled the whole route from DC to Boston by train. And there were some rural areas between DC and NY, and most of the way to Boston was als
49 TWFirst : >>Maybe you guys in America have a different opinion on what is rural than we have in Europe.
50 Luvflng : Simple: there is demand ! -luvflng
51 STT757 : "HPN is actually closer to the Bronx than EWR is to any borough)." I would STRONGLY disagree with that statement, the Howland Hook Marine Terminal on
52 FlyLondon : TWFirst: The Northeast Megalopolis is by no means unique in the world and trying to claim that Europe works to a different scale is erroneous. Case in
53 TWFirst : FlyLondon: You completely misinterpreted my post. Please re-read it... I said nothing about the Northeast Megalopolis being the most dense in the worl
54 Ramerinianair : Virgin goes into EWR also because of the connection opportunities with their partner CO. They don't have a partner that I know of in JFK. SR
55 N328KF : TWFirst: To add to your point...Western Europe is 2.9mil km. Alaska itself is 1.7mil km.
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