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Song To Fly JFK-LAX/SFO  
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6318 times:

Aviation Daily is reporting Song will start these routes in February. Should really drop yields in this lane. Things may need to change for UA/AA as they offer no IFE and in some cases less legroom. I believe these two routes should require 4 of the 12 757s coming over from Delta

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBIGBlack From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 600 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6160 times:

Nice! I hope BOS follows.


Someone special in the air
User currently offlineFlyguy1 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1743 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6147 times:

I would assume only certain flights would go Song.


727, L1011, MD80, A300, 777-200, 737-300, 737-700, 747-400, 757-200, 737-800, A320. E190, E135, 767-200, CRJ9
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6083 times:

I've been expecting them to take over these routes since last year, yields on transcons have gone to sh*t. Almost as bad as Florida, no one's making money no matter how fancy or basic their service offering on the routes.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9817 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6077 times:

I am curious how an all economy LCC style carrier like Song would impact the market. It has a lot of high yielding passengers that pay for first and business class. First and business passengers can subsidize economy passengers in the style of low cost international economy service. UA has given up trying to cater to the low fare part of the market with their PS service. They only have economy plus and a small economy section compared to their business section. With the addition of Song to the market, there are more low fare economy seats available. HP has a few seats, but their A319s don't compare to the larger planes of the legacies. It will be interesting to see how Song will affect the market. Fares in economy are already pretty low on the route (depending on airports you fly to), so the majors probably will still rely on the business traffic to earn good yields and use low fare economy passengers to fill planes up so they can have multiple frequencies that please the business travelers.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6731 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6059 times:

DL gets very few business travelers on this route...all they really get are tourists and some traffic connecting to the Europe flights. I think DL has simply given up on the business traveler and decided to let Song take over.

What few business travelers are left will be chased off if DL makes this conversion.



User currently offlineBIGBlack From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 600 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6052 times:

Well, I used to fly ATA to Vegas on vacation. Assorted airlines to Flordia. Now I fly Song to both and wont go any other way.


Someone special in the air
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4164 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6022 times:

If Song goes transcon out of Boston, it would be something like the third or fourth time DL has tried and failed on these runs. Never mind the distinction between Song and Delta: Delta gave up because there were too many seats flying the routes. Now, they may see AA with fewer seats out of Boston (737-800s versus the 757s/767s they previously used) and fewer daily flights, too. So DL may feel that their Song unit can succeed 'this time' on Boston transcons where they failed before. Certainly, there needs to be SOMETHING new to herald Delta's gorgeous new Logan terminal that is set to debut in '05.

Chris in NH


User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5987 times:

Things may need to change for UA/AA as they offer no IFE

Wanna bet?

AAndrew


User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5977 times:

They're not going after either UA or AA, but rather B6 in the JFK-LGB and JFK-OAK markets.

If you look at the product offerings between the four carriers (DL, UA, AA, B6), the only two with the same product portfolio, basically grounds to compete, are DL and B6.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9817 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5940 times:

It is good for them to go after the economy passengers. There is room for the premium service (UA and AA) alongside low costs service (Song, B6) in addition to CO and HP. It is a huge route with so many diverse passengers.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineRCS763av From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5870 times:

Nice! DL should go DFW-FLL, DFW-LAX, JFK-DFW and DFW-SFO with song, though it wont happen likely.

User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5337 posts, RR: 23
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5827 times:

I'm a business traveller and I'd take Song in a second on this route. AA tried to compete with B6 and basically gave up, pulling out of SNA, for example. And here's a clue: there are PLENTY of business travellers flying on B6. They're just not getting ripped off. Last trip to OAK on B6, I sat next to a lawyer and a paralegal, whose client was paying for the trip. She didn't care about the price (although her client might have); she just wanted the DirectTV to distract her when she wasn't working. (I actually *did* care about the price: I wasn't prepared to pay Delta's then-outrageous one-day-notice one-way fare, even though I coulda used the miles and the upgraded seat.) I have to say that the DirecTV is a zillion times better than the IFE alternatives that the other carriers are trying. Song is the only product to meet or exceed the product offerings on B6 head on, but with Delta pilots and crews. Unlike the B6 attendant who, when the lawyer next to me asked for a Coke, told her, "We're serving water now." Or told me, when I very, very nicely and timidly interrupted her sitting on her ass in the galley reading to ask for a beverage, wordlessly handed the thing to me like she was holding a dead rat, and just in case I didn't get it, made a point of glaring at me. (If Neeleman is going to make good on his promise of actually providing *service* on his airline, he's going to have to monitor, monitor, monitor, and discipline, discipline, discipline the customer service staff. Because he's plainly hiring as many jerks as, say, AA does.)

All the best,

Bill


User currently offlineJetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5737 times:

DL is obviously trying to step up their trancon flying out of JFK thru Song. However, I'm surprised they're doing this as I'm sure DL does gets MANY business travelers on this route (NYC, LA and SF = HUGE business cities). My uncle is a regular on DL's business class flights JFK-LAX-JFK.

Whatever happens, the other airlines are really going to have to step it up, including JetBlue (refering to the post above)...and I thought the worst in transcon was over...

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5665 times:

DL recently dropped mainline JFK-SAN, a route dominated by AA and B6. Perhaps SAN will be another Song destination in the future.

Aaron G.


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5654 times:

Hmmm...Song to SAN. Wonder what that will look like flying over Balboa Park?

Fine by me, as long as no 767's are pulled - only DA and HA have wide-bodies into SAN, and we're down to three a day from the two carriers!!

And isn't HP reducing capacity on those routes? Wonder if that has anything to do with it!



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineLUV4JFK From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5452 times:

Hopefully the recently discontinued JFK-SAN route will receive a Song flight. Two flights a day was probably too much. I think a lot of the routes that Delta flies from focus or non hub cities should be flown with Song. With strong competition, Song might be the only way they could keep going. AirTran came into Delta's turf in ATL but no one will ever take that crown from Delta. Out of SLC & CVG with little or no LCC presence, I'm sure fares are sky high on routes out of those cities.

On a side note, does anyone know when Song will take over the JFK-SJU route? I heard Song was supposed to start flying the route but I don't know when.

LUV4JFK
 Big thumbs up



John F. Kennedy International Airport: Where America Greets The World.
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5419 times:

>UA has given up trying to cater to the low fare part of the market with their PS service. They only have economy plus and a small economy section compared to their business section.<

They only have F, J and Y+. No standard Y on the plane

>Things may need to change for UA/AA as they offer no IFE<

Well, I guess movies, music and Channel 9 (UA only) don't qualify as In Flight Entertainment any more. They don't have PTV's, but they have a whole bunch of IFE.

>DL should go DFW-FLL, DFW-LAX, JFK-DFW and DFW-SFO with song,<

Unless there is a major reversal, DFW will only have DL hub flights in about a month and a half.

>AA tried to compete with B6 and basically gave up, pulling out of SNA, <

If by SNA you mean LGB and by pulling out you mean pulling off the JFK-LGB route, then you are right



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAa767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2401 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5369 times:

Although I have never flown Song, I hear it is pretty good. B6, On the other hand is good for short hops. I flown them many times. And can say that they have lost their touch. Cocky punks, are the norm, when it comes to Flight Attendants. JFK-LAS, was a nightmare! Full of Long Island trash, and the seatback, on the last row would not recline. Now, I take them to BUF,FLL,MCO, or anything short haul. But not long haul!

I look forward to flying Song, on the transcon route. Just hope it does not full under the same cramped chaotic mess that is a transcon, on B6.



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineORBITJFK From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5286 times:

Aa767400...Long Island trash? Thats a bit harsh. Obviously you've never been to the real Long Island. I'm sure I could say the same about "Puerto Rican trash" on a JFK - SJU flight. Anyway, from what I heard Song sounds like a more high-end, classy, "New York" type airline. Much more character and cachet. Some biz travelers might like that.

ORBITJFK


User currently offlineJetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3018 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5249 times:

Full of Long Island trash

And by saying this you mean...the 6,000 square foot mansions on the North Shore? The beaches and the beautiful homes on the water on the South Shore? The average annual income of $85,000, give or take a couple of thousand? The average cost of a decent house being over $600,000? The many Jaguars and Mercedes cars driving around?

My home is anything but "trash," come and see my town for yourself.

And since you were flying to LAS - a city where people go to win money and have non-stop fun - you should be expecting some excitement in the plane's cabin.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5249 times:

Anyway, from what I heard Song sounds like a more high-end, classy, "New York" type airline. Much more character and cachet. Some biz travelers might like that.

They try....But in reality they don't fit that classy, "New York" image.

My guess is that they will at least keep some mainline service on JFK-LAX and SFO. Just like they do with LAS where they have a Song flight and a mainline 757 flight.


User currently offlineRCS763av From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4396 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5234 times:

N1120a, thats why im saying they should put Song into DFW, since there will be no hub from Jan 31.

User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6731 posts, RR: 24
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5171 times:

And by saying this you mean...the 6,000 square foot mansions on the North Shore? The beaches and the beautiful homes on the water on the South Shore? The average annual income of $85,000, give or take a couple of thousand? The average cost of a decent house being over $600,000? The many Jaguars and Mercedes cars driving around?

My home is anything but "trash," come and see my town for yourself.


You can still be trash and have lots of money...see Paris Hilton as exhibit A. In fact, some of the trashiest, rudest, crudest people I have ever met were wealthy. Money doesn't equal class.

Back on topic, I'm still not sure what DL's strategy is with this move. Routes like JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO have a reasonable mix of business and leisure travel and can support a two class product. If DL puts Song on these routes, they will have a hard time keeping any higher yield traffic.

DL will simply pick up the leisure traffic that overflows from AA,UA and to a lesser extent JB. That would be ok if DL's cost structure was low enough to be a leisure airline. But even with restructuring, I don't think DL's costs are low enough to be a primarily leisure airline.

Maybe DL could offer a small F cabin on Song....about eight seats. They'd have the same IFE, the food for sale would be free and of course larger seats. It wouldn't cut out that many seats and might allow DL (Song) to be more competitive from a business perspective.




User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5071 times:

A few comments.

This is not a big business market for Delta. AA/UA may get a substaintial amount of business passengers but Delta has not been able to make much progress here.

I highly doubt that this will be a mix of Song/Mainline. LAS should go all Song. SJU should go all Song.

Long Island has good parts and bad parts. I'm generalizing, but New Yorkers for the most part don't make good customer service people. Sorry it' just not your thing. I love New York, and New Yorkers but let's be frank....LOL



25 AlitaliaMD11 : YES I can finally fly a cheap and good airline direct into LAX from JFK, I usually have to fly Jet Blue to LGB and than drive, I really enojoy flying
26 Aa767400 : Money does not equal class, and eduacation. Yes, Paris Hilton is a good example. Also does Victoria Gotti, ring a a bell?(Even though she is Jersey tr
27 MAH4546 : Although I have never flown Song, I hear it is pretty good. B6, On the other hand is good for short hops. I flown them many times. And can say that th
28 Sspontak : FlyPNS1, Good point of having a small first class cabin for the Song aircraft. That would probably work for most Song markets because a lot of high ro
29 ORBITJFK : AA767400..I also did not include anyone's race in my equation. If someone was to say something bad about an American, should only a white person feel
30 Jetbluefan1 : Money does not equal class, and eduacation. When I read the comment that was referring to "Long Island trash," I thought you made that account by judg
31 Ord : "How come this news hasn't been loaded onto Song's website yet?" The announcement of any new Song routes will be in February.
32 Wjcandee : N1120a "AA tried to compete with B6 and basically gave up, pulling out of SNA,
33 BIGBlack : PR trash? Very ignorant Someone of that classic LI racism at work I guess. As far as my fav spawn of an airline is concerned.... If Song goes transcon
34 Azul320 : Shlong is green with envy and must immitate, but remember who was the smartest to think of it first?...
35 BIGBlack : *yawn* That's nice Azul
36 N1120a : >or LGB for that matter
37 Laca773 : What happened to DL's plan to revamp their inflight service to their higher standards and philosophy of the past? I guess they don't think people like
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