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JetBlue A LCC?  
User currently offlineRobert74 From Austria, joined Oct 2004, 51 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6465 times:

I've read several times now that JetBlue is a LCC. Why's that ?
I thought they have brand new planes, great seat-pitch, great on-board service (free I understand), great IFE, they serve major airports and so on. So where exactly are they low cost ?


31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEI A330-200 From Sweden, joined Apr 2001, 409 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6363 times:

They are low cost for several reasons:

1. The serve mostly secondary airports, not primary (with a few exceptions, ie JFK and LGA). That's why they're not in LAX, but LGB.

2. They have limits on the maximum price a seat can be, which is significantly lower than those of the majors.

3. They price based on One-Way fairs, not round-trips

4. They offer limited in-flight services. You won't see anymore warm meals, etc. on flights. They only offer snacks and drinks.

5. As for the brand new planes, they got a great lease deal on them, and it would have ended up costing more for them to buy the used planes and pay for the increased maintenance on the used planes.



Long live Aer Lingus, the Flying Shamrock!
User currently offlineRobert74 From Austria, joined Oct 2004, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6338 times:

Thanks for the reply.
But wasn't it JetBlue that offer great leather seats and every seat has a IFE ?
I actually thought they are a all C-class airline. Maybe did they start as such and couldn't uphold it ? Or am I confusing it with another airline ?


User currently offlineEI A330-200 From Sweden, joined Apr 2001, 409 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6272 times:

While JetBlue (B6) do offer leather seats and in-seat IFE, it is far from a C-Class airline. Seat size is similar to the majors in Y, screen size is average. Think of them flying planes outfitted more like an International Y-class without the frills (hot food, etc.). Remember, WN (Southwest) has leather seats, but that doesn't mean they're not an LCC!


Long live Aer Lingus, the Flying Shamrock!
User currently offlineNWAskyteam From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6202 times:

B6 is a low cost carrier in terms of what a passenger can expect to pay for a ticket....the seats are leather but the seating is all Y class and pretty cramped. Seat pitch is equivalent or worse than most US majors coach seating. The new planes are a part of a great leasing package, but those cost will rise when you factor in maintenance on the jets. B6 is making money while it can as cost are certain to rise.

User currently offlineNWAskyteam From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6193 times:

and it has always been all Y class seating.

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13517 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6159 times:
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Another reason they're so inexpensive is that they have insanely low labor costs, primarily due to the fact that they're a young carrier and therefore don't have any 10 or 20 year employees earning top pay - their employees are all either at the very beginning or early steps of their pay progressions and therefore don't earn much.


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently onlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8942 posts, RR: 40
Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6139 times:

Robert74,

Leather seats last much longer than fabric seats, and are a much easier and quick to clean.

PPVRA



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7760 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6135 times:

A truer definition of an LCC is based on its marginal seat costs, CASM, rather than amenities or whether a cow died to cover its seats.

While it is true that traditional LCCs and No-frills carriers were synonomous, that is no longer the case. With traditional carriers cutting back on frills and ambitious start-ups somethings have more frills than the legacies.

Ultimately what defines an LCC is its cost structure.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6085 times:

B6 is a low cost carrier in terms of what a passenger can expect to pay for a ticket

This is incorrect. Low-cost is not synonymous with Low-fare. LCCs have lower costs than the "majors," but not necessarily lower fares. If I'm not mistaken, USAirways now consideres itself an LCC, but they still have high fares in several markets where they have little competition.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6056 times:

the seats are leather but the seating is all Y class and pretty cramped. Seat pitch is equivalent or worse than most US majors coach seating.

Funny, I thought it was the other way around. If I recall correctly, JetBlue's seat pitch is very good especially toward the rear of the bus where they recently removed a row to add an inch or two. I think their seat pitch is at least average, if not better than average, compared to US major airlines coach seating. I'm guessing their seats are a lot roomier than nwa's DC9 service, for example.....



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6025 times:

>JetBlue's seat pitch is very good especially toward the rear of the bus where they recently removed a row to add an inch or two. I think their seat pitch is at least average, if not better than average, compared to US major airlines coach seating.<

B6's rear 2/3rds of the plane has 34" of pitch, same as AA MRTC. The front 1/3rd has 32" of pitch, more than or equal too all US majors except AA (more than their 752s and A300s) and WN.

LCCs are ones that keep their costs down. They can do this the unfair, harmful and inefficient way by taking it from the people who make the money for the airline (labor) or flying cheap, old planes and doing bad MX, or they can do it by reducing other costs through much more shrewed management, like WN, B6, etc. do



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6010 times:

Just wait until they actually have to start paying for their planes, then they'll have to actually play with the big boys and actually compete.

As far as them being a LCC, perhaps their business model may represent a LCC, but their fares don't! At least not out of SEA. I've been looking for a chance to fly B6 and everytime I have priced them to various places (Burlington, VT, NYC, and MCO), they are consistently several hundred dollars more then their competitors. Maybe it has to do with the fact that they only have ONE flight a day out of SEA. (Though I heard rumors it may be going to 2x/daily?)

Steve


User currently offlineN1120a From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26376 posts, RR: 76
Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5994 times:

>Just wait until they actually have to start paying for their planes, then they'll have to actually play with the big boys and actually compete.<

Hey Steve. I actually did a debtload/cash/revenue check on B6. They are in the financial position to cover their debts even if they have larger payments. They are paying for their planes now.

>As far as them being a LCC, perhaps their business model may represent a LCC, but their fares don't! At least not out of SEA. I've been looking for a chance to fly B6 and everytime I have priced them to various places (Burlington, VT, NYC, and MCO), they are consistently several hundred dollars more then their competitors. Maybe it has to do with the fact that they only have ONE flight a day out of SEA. (Though I heard rumors it may be going to 2x/daily?)<

They are like any carrier. They offer a certain number of each fare level based on demand on routes. Sometimes they will be more, sometimes they will be less. The one thing you are guarenteed, however, is that the one way fare will not be more than $299 on any one segment.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineAa767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2333 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5954 times:

Most of the time they are not the cheapest on the route. Many times the majors have the same if not a fare less than B6.

Flying MCO-JFK, I get people asking, "Where is the meal?" and I just think to myself that, Everyone else does not serve a meal, Why should we have to? You get what you pay for people. Why should a legacy have a meal on board, when they are charging the same if not a lower fare on the same route than a LCC?




"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5854 times:

Why does the perception of LCCs always include the "cattle car" analogy?

LCCs are called that based upon price and cost, not on their level of service.

YX was essentially and all-first-class carrier at LCC prices...



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 962 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5795 times:

Low Cost Carrier referrs to their cost structure... not their ticket price. I could arugably call an all-first class airline with a very efficent cost structure an LCC just as easily as I could call RyanAir an LCC.

An LCC describes a very wide spectrum


User currently offlineLrgt From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 710 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5718 times:

I would say their lack of participation in the GDS makes them an automatic LCC.

The only significant LCC in the USA who is on the GDS is FL (Airtran).

WHAT is the deal with YX NOW??? They are hardly low-price!



Don't bring up the NW DC9's unless you have to!
User currently offlinePVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 723 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5607 times:

They might be a LCC in terms of their cost of operations, but their ticket prices are not much cheaper than their competitors. Personally, I don't see what the big deal is. It reminds of all the hype around AOL in the 90's, they did great until a lot of people figured out that they could get the same or better product from others. I think that once their fleet starts requiring more maintenance and the legacy carriers get closer to them in terms of employee costs and IFE, that they are going to have trouble keeping their competitive advantage.

We'll have to wait and see.

My 2 cents.


User currently offlineCaptoveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5549 times:

"I thought they have brand new planes, great seat-pitch, great on-board service"

"But wasn't it JetBlue that offer great leather seats and every seat has a IFE ?"

I have flown Southwest, one of the first, or at least oldest surviving LCCs. They have great seat pitch, great service, leather seats, and some new airplanes. These are not things you have to pay top dollar to get. Honestly, aside from a better choice of destinations and getting crammed into a CRJ or ERJ, or flying overseas I don't see what people pay more money for.

But I must confess, my next flight is not on WN, AA could get me exactly where I wanted to go for not much more money.


User currently offlinePVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 723 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5481 times:

Captoveur,

Just my point. AA, UA, CO, DL offer almost the same fares and fly into the major airports, I.E., LAX instead of Long Beach. Plus, if you are a regular flyer with status in the FF program you get upgrades, dbl miles etc...., why would I fly JETBLUE?


User currently offlineATLhomeCMH From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 770 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1788 times:

I am wagering that eventually the inflight amenities you get on JetBlue (and soon, AirTran) will become the norm for many LCCs, and the Southwests of the world will feel more of a pinch to follow suit. Eventually, the "Pack 'em wherever we can and throw some peanuts at 'em," cattle-car mentality will be a much harder sell, both for the "skimpier" LCCs, as well as the legacies.




"The most terrifying words in the Engligh language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"-Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1763 times:

Just my point. AA, UA, CO, DL offer almost the same fares and fly into the major airports, I.E., LAX instead of Long Beach. Plus, if you are a regular flyer with status in the FF program you get upgrades, dbl miles etc...., why would I fly JETBLUE?

Has it occured to anyone that LGB [just like JFK, OAK, etc.] are actually more convenient for people then LAX, LGA/EWR, SFO? All they are are alternatives. For example, I prefer HPN over LGA because its closer to me. Is HPN a major NYC area airport like LGA / EWR / JFK? No. Is it more convenient, simpler, smaller, less of a hassle, a nicer experience? Yes. Thats the reason there are the LGBs, OAKs, HPNs, LCKs, etc of the world. Right?


User currently offlinePVG From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2004, 723 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1755 times:

"Has it occurred to anyone that LGB [just like JFK, OAK, etc.] are actually more convenient for people then LAX, LGA/EWR, SFO? All they are are alternatives. For example, I prefer HPN over LGA because its closer to me. Is HPN a major NYC area airport like LGA / EWR / JFK? No. Is it more convenient, simpler, smaller, less of a hassle, a nicer experience? Yes. Thats the reason there are the LGBs, OAKs, HPNs, LCKs, etc of the world. Right?"

Most people flying to LA for business want to fly to LAX. Of course, airports like HPN and LGB have their benefits to people who live or need to be near them, but in the end, unless you are specifically going to a place near LGB, you would probably want to fly into LAX. I.E., If I were flying into NYC for business and had meetings in Westchester/NJ and the City over a 2 day period, I would probably want to fly into LGA or even EWR as they are more central. By the way, isn't HPN a premium priced destination? You usually need to pay more for flights from there. No? Why is a B6 employee paying more to fly from HPN and not going down to LGA or JFK to get on a B6 flight so that they watch more TV on the plane in case they missed the latest reality show when they were home?


User currently offlineFA4B6 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1728 times:

Most people flying to LA for business want to fly to LAX. Of course, airports like HPN and LGB have their benefits to people who live or need to be near them, but in the end, unless you are specifically going to a place near LGB, you would probably want to fly into LAX. I.E., If I were flying into NYC for business and had meetings in Westchester/NJ and the City over a 2 day period, I would probably want to fly into LGA or even EWR as they are more central. By the way, isn't HPN a premium priced destination? You usually need to pay more for flights from there. No? Why is a B6 employee paying more to fly from HPN and not going down to LGA or JFK to get on a B6 flight so that they watch more TV on the plane in case they missed the latest reality show when they were home?

I understand your point .. mine was, however, that 'secondary' airports serve a purpose and have a huge convenience factor about them, etc.

As for why I fly out of HPN, I meant before I worked for JetBlue I worked for a company where I made my own travel arrangements. Even so, I use airlines can non rev on to fly HPN-BOS and HPN-IAD [routes B6 obviously doesnt serve]


25 PVG : FA4B6, I was just kidding! Didn't mean to offend. Good luck.
26 FA4B6 : FA4B6, I was just kidding! Didn't mean to offend. Good luck. Sorry man! Guess im just used to all the negativity around here!
27 Burnsie28 : Maybe I missed it, but they also pay their employees Piss Poor wages and offer limited benefits.
28 FA4B6 : Maybe I missed it, but they also pay their employees Piss Poor wages and offer limited benefits. Are you just trying to start something because I take
29 FA4B6 : I just let myself get upset over a comment a teenager made. My mistake. Now Ill know to look at profiles before responding.
30 UN_B732 : B6 is a low cost carrier in terms of what a passenger can expect to pay for a ticket....the seats are leather but the seating is all Y class and prett
31 Elwood64151 : Just my point. AA, UA, CO, DL offer almost the same fares and fly into the major airports For the vast majority of travellers, who purchase their tick
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