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Long Haul Flights For Jet 9W  
User currently offlineAirindia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1656 posts, RR: 1
Posted (10 years 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4380 times:

An article in the Economic Times, P7, tells in brief the plans of granting long haul flight permission to Jet. Although the final green signal is pending, in the event it does happen, what routes would it get. 9W is not the designated national carrier, would that hamper their plans and if finally things fall in place, what a/c would 9W acquire for diferent routes. Will we get to see India's first wide bodied a/c in private colours?

best,
Guru

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMrNiji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4330 times:

Basically, it is considered to allocate routes to the privates which are not 'properly covered' by the state-owned, i.e. where the latter can't use the bilaterals fully (which is basically every city at the moment  Sad ). The Gulf is to be exclusive for AI/IC... 9W apparently would love to go for LON... but I would bot be surprised if first permission for secondary markets, like Rome, Geneva, or even Manchester would be granted.. expect SIN, KUL first, then more distant locations.. it can be a matter of days or years, so much about the consistency about mechanisms of the GOI  Big grin

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4218 times:

First AI & IA will be given opportunities to expand their Fleet,Followed by permission to private carriers to operate SAARC countries [Done],then SE Asia,Then Middle East,Then Europe.......
So now the question is when will AI & IA get their Aircrafts.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4852 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4158 times:

LHR will be v tough for 9W and S2 to fly to due to lack of available slots at good times. If they want to fly to London, then Gatwick is their best option for the time being. But then again, nothing is definite as yet concerning them being allowed long haul overseas flying rights!!!

User currently offlineKkfla737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1033 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4138 times:

9W may want to seriously consider Manchester or Birmingham if approval is granted. AI has left a huge market void in both places.

User currently offlineAirindia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4119 times:

9W may want to seriously consider Manchester or Birmingham

incase it does, what aircraft shd it lease...... 744s..... 777s


User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4115 times:

MAN, LHR... what we talking about 9W here?

SIN, HKG, JKT, MLE, CAI- Now that looks more plausible.

Even here, they woudl find i difficult to fly to SIN or HKG from BOM, DEL, MAA or HYD without the loosers at Air India throwing a hissy fit at Rajiv Bhavan as they have done in the past whenever there is talk of IC getting more intl flights.

I personally see 9W going intl from COK, GOI, CCU and BLR direct to the Middle-East, CMB and SIN. Those wingletted 737-800's would do well on these routes.

-Roy


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4852 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4103 times:

9W nor S2 are going to the Gulf Roy !!! U know that so its no point even speculating about it.

As for CAI...no need to fly there for any Indian carrier!!! There isnt money to be made on that route unless you are MS carrying a lot of 6th freedom traffic.

I would really like these 2 airlines to fly nonstop to BHX and MAN...they will do well from there.



User currently offlineMrNiji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4076 times:

In terms of a/c, neitgher the 777 nor the 380 would be to expect, rather 777 or 330/40

User currently offlineSanthosh From India, joined Sep 2001, 545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4038 times:

S2 operates flights from BLR to CMB like that why don’t 9W try such short distance international routes?Are they not profitable?


Happy Landing
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4034 times:

why don’t 9W try such short distance international routes

9W flies both MAA-CMB and DEL-KTM.


User currently offlineSanthosh From India, joined Sep 2001, 545 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4011 times:

Sean than for the information. Didn't know that before. Well if they can do these short international flights. Why do they need special clearance to do long hauls?



Happy Landing
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4003 times:

Behramjee: depends on where the carrier wants to fly from. AI will be throwing a hissy fit only if 9W/IC/S2 file for flights ex-BOM, COK or MAA, which AI regards as its fiefdom.

But there are other stations, which AI wouldnt want to touch with a bargepole, but have the potential to be money-spinnners! GOI, ATQ, LKO, CCU and AMD: all have great potential.

-Roy


User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3991 times:


Why do they need special clearance to do long hauls?

The main reason is the Govt Of India which still lives by the rules set by the angrez when they left. Protecting holy cow Air India at any cost is the name of the game.

The second is that Air India doesnt have the balls to face up to competition coming from within. Air India doesnt mind foreign carriers coming in and making all the moolah. It may not even have the aircraft to service all the routes the country is entitled to. But it will still throw a hissy fit every time IC gets a favorable response for opening up a new route, the last time being HKG! It is this kind of protectionism that has turned AI into the sad picture that it is today. AI has possibly the worst inflight product of any intl airline: No IFE, creaky aircraft and cabin crew more interested in pilfering items from aircraft than serving pax. It has no incentive to invest in improving: why should it when it has a protected market and even can lease out bilateral rights, which should be the property of the GoI.

The only solution is to liberalise the international air-travel scene and throw it open to competition from Indian carriers including IC. I mean look at the IC example: a decade back when 9W arrived, IC was in such a sorry state. Its share of the domestic actually dipped to below 40% at one stage! But now IC has won back a lot of its pax, and the last survey by 'Business India' rated IC as the first choice for over 60% of corporate travellers! Could you believe 9W managed only half that figure? Among corporates?

Anybody still thinks that protectionism is a good idea? Air India is one of the last remaining symbols of the old socialist India and everything that was wrong with that idea. Its time we moved with the times. IF AI cannot keep up with the change, then shut down the f***ing airline and let 9W/S2 and IC take over. They will do a much better job.

End of rant.

-Roy


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3987 times:

I think AI is far more protective of AMD than it is of MAA. After all, you see multiple daily 744s operating direct and even nonstop from AMD to Europe/NA while MAA is stuck with A310s and wetlease A320s on hub-and-spoke for any westbound flying.

I think the Gulf and SE Asia markets need to be opened up to all comers sometime in mid-2005 and the longhaul markets in early-2006. That would be a realistic timeframe to allow both AI/IC and the private carriers a level playing field for expansion. Rush it too quickly and AI/IC won't be able to compete and delay too much longer and the private carriers will be disadvantaged.


User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1823 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3953 times:

while MAA is stuck with A310s and wetlease A320s on hub-and-spoke for any westbound flying.

with LH operating 744 7X and BA about to start 744 6X , I should think MAA gets a fair share of 744s.



Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3948 times:

with LH operating 744 7X and BA about to start 744 6X , I should think MAA gets a fair share of 744s

We were discussing Air India's treatment of the MAA market, so I'm not sure how that is relevent?


User currently offlineSmeagol From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3932 times:

9W is flying to Shanghai now, right? They used to fly to Beijing in 2002 as I remeber...


When you look at a pig, no matter from what angle you look at it, it is a pig...
User currently offlineSshank From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3904 times:

I think AI is far more protective of AMD than it is of MAA

Yes, and MAA will be better of for it when the private carriers are allowed to sprout wings and fly. Folks in MAA will have some real choice between the likes of 9W and the foreign carriers. No one there really expects much from Air Bombay (sorry, Air India!) - which is treated as a carrier of last resort anyway, when all other options are sold out.

That said, I am not holding my breath for the private carriers to be "unleashed".


User currently offlineStealthpilot From India, joined May 2004, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3907 times:

The only countries 9W fly too are Sri Lanka and Nepal....... and they are going to start services to Bangladesh.
I agree that IC has picked up its socks, but again that is not the whole story. Alot of people would fly IC because of the rewards program = FF miles = international flights. When the privat carriers get the int. routes im sure that 60% figure would drop.



eP007
User currently offlineMrNiji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3876 times:

Smeagol:

9W is flying to Shanghai now, right? They used to fly to Beijing in 2002 as I remeber...

Nops, AI does fly to Shanghai, and no Indian Airline has ever served Beijing, afaik China Eastern has flighst India China from PEK.

Indian private careers are not permitted to fly abroad yet, with exceptions of CMB [Colombo - since you are know, hold your mose over three letter codes, you will see teh name in most cases], KTM, other SAARC and maybe ASEAN countries to follow..

brief, hope that helps... and.. welcome to a.net!  Big grin


User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2893 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3850 times:

It would either be the 777/767 or the A330 which both would be looking for

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3767 times:

9W ---- SAARC countries Next.......then we move onn  Big thumbs up
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineStealthpilot From India, joined May 2004, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3726 times:

Mel im with you man........ SAARC is just the first step!!!! Open it up dammit!!!  Smile
I personally feel 9W will stick to Boeing and the 777. (And im sure im not the only one who’s infatuated with the 772LR........... fingers crossed)
-Nikhil



eP007
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31712 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (10 years 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3617 times:

I heard permission for 9W & S2 to Sningapore,Malaysia have come in too.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
25 Karan69 : According to their Company brouchers they are "apparently" starting Bangkok services end march beginning april
26 Post contains images HAWK21M : Ok.Karan......SE Asia......Then Middle East regds MEL
27 Trvyyz : where the latter can't use the bilaterals fully That means that(theoretically) Jet could fly a non-stop to YYZ. I don't see AI coming to Canada in the
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