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727-200 Refurb?  
User currently offlineNwa1978 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 66 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

Hey,

Long time reader, first time poster! Just a quick question about a 727-200 refurb. I see fedex taking a bunch of old dc-10 and having new avionics installed to convert it to a two man cockpit vs a three man cockpit. I have also read articles on this when they have installed new engines. I can see how this would be much cheaper than a new 150 million dollar plane, so my question is this:

With all the 727-200 sitting in the desert, some have their whole fleet sitting there together, why don't they have the 727's fitted the same? One would have to assume they could do it the same way and install a new glass cockpit to convert it to a two man crew, install modern fuel efficient engines, then ofcourse update the interior. Since I don't buy planes I don't know what a 727-200 is worth, but I would have to assume since 9/11 you could get them pretty cheap. I am just looking for some opinions since I have read articles that talked about a company who wanted to do this and resell the aircraft and boeing pretty much put a stop to it. Any info would be helpful. Thank's

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6483 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2731 times:

Nwa1978:

Stage III.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineNwa1978 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2685 times:

Stage III? I am a little lost with this. All that comes to mind is hush kits... If I am reading that correctly, new engines would ofcourse be quiet. Well, less noise than now anyways.

User currently offline57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2550 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2674 times:

Basically, the numbers don't add up to support a large scale refurbishment of the 727. To make the 727 competitive in its market niche, you would have to eliminate the FE position as well as contend with Stage III using either hush kits or a new engine. While these changes seem simple enough in print, the time required and expense would be better spent elsewhere. You can either pour the money into an old airframe and have an old airframe with new appendages or buy the newer generation aircraft for a bit more and have a better, more reliable airplane.


"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
User currently offlineNightFlyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 95 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2567 times:

The MD10's still have the same engines as the DC10's. The only major change is the cockpit.

NightFlyer


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31580 posts, RR: 57
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2543 times:

Hushkitting leads to less noise but more Weight. Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineWjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4973 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2538 times:

How does UPS like its 727s? It has virtually all re-engined with TAY engines.

--Bill


User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 36
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2466 times:

The other problem with adding a glass cockpit and new engines is they are being put on an old airframe that still has all of the additional maintenance checks and inspections associated with an aging airframe. Not a very cost-effective use of funds.

MxCtrlr  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Freight Dogs Anonymous - O.O.T.S.K.  Smokin cool



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
User currently onlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3197 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2456 times:

I dont think the problem is that it can't be done with 727s, i think the problem is just how cheap one can pick up 737-300s, which already have stage 3 engines, a two crew cockpit and in the overwhelming majority of cases EFIS.

So, basically I think thats ur problem. An interesting option may be a MD-80 frieghter kit?



User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2866 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2385 times:

Actually quite a few of the 727-200s for FedEx ARE re-engined. The last ones off the line were all modified with JT8D-217 engines on the outboard (#1 and 3) pylons, while having the plain old JT8D-17 in the center hole.

UPS reengined all of their 727-100s. I don't think the TAY has enough thrust to make it a viable reengining choice for the -200. Perhaps as teh center engine, however the maintainence and spares costs would be prohibitive. Much easier to just convert a 734.



The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineCaptoveur From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2355 times:

"So, basically I think thats ur problem. An interesting option may be a MD-80 frieghter kit?"

I think there is an issue with the MD-80 not being wide enough to be a frieghter but the Boeing products are wide enough. Remember an MD-80 is typically 2-3 seating and a Boeing is usually 3-3.


User currently offlineNwa1978 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2329 times:

I guess I was just looking at the cost of a new plane such as a 737 vs what it would cost to refit the 727-200 with todays technology and efficient engines. Even with the gas guzzlers it has now, you would have to buy a lot of fuel to equal the cost of a new plane. I just see smaller airlines operating these aircraft and making a profit doing so, so I was just curious with the amount of used airframes sitting in the desert, it might be a viable option. Thats whats great about this site, lots of opinions!!

User currently offlineStudentFlyer From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 688 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2255 times:

Hi Nwa1978, welcome to A.net

Well, in regards to the 722s, they are still quite widely used in Asia and Africa, as fuel are quite cheap. Take for example, Indonesia, where I come from. There are quite a number of 727s operating as-is. They are quite cheap to obtain and maintain, therefore there's no need to refurbish them to a higher standard. Fuel price isn't really a problem here, as the government subsidises to push the prices down. Noise aren't a problem as yet as they are in Europe and America, so they don't usually have hush-kits fitted. As LCC markets grow, there may be a new airline being born at this moment, and they have the option to take old 727s or MD-80s from the desert, so they will simply be used to their last legs without spending unnecessary upgrade costs, yet earning a good revenue

Regards,
AK


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