Nwa1978 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 66 posts, RR: 0 Posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3054 times:
Long time reader, first time poster! Just a quick question about a 727-200 refurb. I see fedex taking a bunch of old dc-10 and having new avionics installed to convert it to a two man cockpit vs a three man cockpit. I have also read articles on this when they have installed new engines. I can see how this would be much cheaper than a new 150 million dollar plane, so my question is this:
With all the 727-200 sitting in the desert, some have their whole fleet sitting there together, why don't they have the 727's fitted the same? One would have to assume they could do it the same way and install a new glass cockpit to convert it to a two man crew, install modern fuel efficient engines, then ofcourse update the interior. Since I don't buy planes I don't know what a 727-200 is worth, but I would have to assume since 9/11 you could get them pretty cheap. I am just looking for some opinions since I have read articles that talked about a company who wanted to do this and resell the aircraft and boeing pretty much put a stop to it. Any info would be helpful. Thank's
57AZ From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2586 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2983 times:
Basically, the numbers don't add up to support a large scale refurbishment of the 727. To make the 727 competitive in its market niche, you would have to eliminate the FE position as well as contend with Stage III using either hush kits or a new engine. While these changes seem simple enough in print, the time required and expense would be better spent elsewhere. You can either pour the money into an old airframe and have an old airframe with new appendages or buy the newer generation aircraft for a bit more and have a better, more reliable airplane.
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MxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 34
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2775 times:
The other problem with adding a glass cockpit and new engines is they are being put on an old airframe that still has all of the additional maintenance checks and inspections associated with an aging airframe. Not a very cost-effective use of funds.
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Lufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3245 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2765 times:
I dont think the problem is that it can't be done with 727s, i think the problem is just how cheap one can pick up 737-300s, which already have stage 3 engines, a two crew cockpit and in the overwhelming majority of cases EFIS.
So, basically I think thats ur problem. An interesting option may be a MD-80 frieghter kit?
Spacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 3104 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2694 times:
Actually quite a few of the 727-200s for FedEx ARE re-engined. The last ones off the line were all modified with JT8D-217 engines on the outboard (#1 and 3) pylons, while having the plain old JT8D-17 in the center hole.
UPS reengined all of their 727-100s. I don't think the TAY has enough thrust to make it a viable reengining choice for the -200. Perhaps as teh center engine, however the maintainence and spares costs would be prohibitive. Much easier to just convert a 734.
Nwa1978 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2638 times:
I guess I was just looking at the cost of a new plane such as a 737 vs what it would cost to refit the 727-200 with todays technology and efficient engines. Even with the gas guzzlers it has now, you would have to buy a lot of fuel to equal the cost of a new plane. I just see smaller airlines operating these aircraft and making a profit doing so, so I was just curious with the amount of used airframes sitting in the desert, it might be a viable option. Thats whats great about this site, lots of opinions!!
StudentFlyer From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 688 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2564 times:
Hi Nwa1978, welcome to A.net
Well, in regards to the 722s, they are still quite widely used in Asia and Africa, as fuel are quite cheap. Take for example, Indonesia, where I come from. There are quite a number of 727s operating as-is. They are quite cheap to obtain and maintain, therefore there's no need to refurbish them to a higher standard. Fuel price isn't really a problem here, as the government subsidises to push the prices down. Noise aren't a problem as yet as they are in Europe and America, so they don't usually have hush-kits fitted. As LCC markets grow, there may be a new airline being born at this moment, and they have the option to take old 727s or MD-80s from the desert, so they will simply be used to their last legs without spending unnecessary upgrade costs, yet earning a good revenue