Not very much new except for one Eva A330-200 and a few conversions.
That leaves a huge number of announced during 2004 but still outstanding orders:
Etihad Airways 4 A380-800, 4 A340-500, 4 A340-600 and 12 A330-200
Thai International 6 A380-800, 1 A340-500 and 1 A340-600
Vietnam Airways 10 A321
Virgin Atlantic 13 A340-600
Hainan: 8 A319
Air Berlin-Niki 70 A320
Air China 23 A320
Total: 156
The Vietnam deal has supposedly been confirmed, though that still leaves 146 orders. Will be interesting to see how many of these will be confirmed in December (aren’t the manufacturers always keen to clean up their order books) or if many will get pushed into 2005.
Strongly Rumoured:
Air Asia 40 A320
Lufthansa 7 A340-600 (confirmed by the airline)
Jeremiah
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
JoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7561 times:
I don't think that Airbus is too keen to announce these orders still in this year. As far as I know they are already in front of Beoing, and as far as Boeing doesn't come out with some big 7e7 orders, it is better for Airbus to hide theirs.
Col From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2042 posts, RR: 22 Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 7528 times:
Airbus up to end Nov had 218 aircraft on order, of which 179 narrow bodies and 39 wide. Good news for Airbus is that these orders are for aircraft in production.
Boeing order book is at 211. 124 narrow bodies, and 97 wide bodies. 35 wide body orders are for aircraft in production, rest 7E7. Also, 50 orders are for unidentified customers, which possibly shows a large amount of military cutomers.
The numbers are fairly similar in orders, with Boeing having more wide bodies, but Airbus are in a stronger position short term due to their orders being for units in production.
Looks like a very changing situation over the coming years! Hopefully a change of sales team at Boeing will help the 737.
Hamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2669 posts, RR: 59 Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 7457 times:
"Hainan: 8 A319"
Actually, these have already been accounted for by the conversion of existing CASC orders.
Another interesting aspect of Airbus' recent update is the significant reduction in A318 backlog as GECAS has converted 16 A318's into other A32X models.
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4115 posts, RR: 39 Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7279 times:
@ Hamlet69: Concerning the A318: it is a niche-product as is the B736. None of them being really hot-sellers, and will never be. For Airbus it was a comparably inexpensive addition to its portfolio with a good fallout: destroying sales of the B717 and harming the B737-600, thus denying Boeing sales successes.
That GECAS is now converting their orders into other (more expensive) A32S family members just shows that there is more demand in this range. I wouldn´t count too much into this.
Scbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 11447 posts, RR: 50 Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7255 times:
Have the other 30 orders for the B7E7 been included in the Boeing tally?
No, since they are not yet signed orders. Given that the 7E7 design is not even frozen yet, I'm not surprised that they currently only have two committed customers.
Hamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2669 posts, RR: 59 Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7087 times:
Flying-Tiger,
No disrespect to Airbus was intended. Of course I'm aware of the niche-placement of the A318. Personally, I doubt either it nor the 736 will ever achieve 100+ orders, let alone the place the A318 was at when it launched (IIRC, @ 130).
That being said, IMO, Airbus didn't really need the A318 in the first place. Boeing wasn't selling the 737-600 too much to start with. The 717, though being looked at by many airlines, wasn't really selling well either. In this market, Airbus launched the A318, which required more development work than most 'simple-change' derivative models, and cost much more than Boeing had invested in the 737-600 (which was developed concurrently with other 737NG, while the A318 was a stand-alone product). You'll also notice that all the airlines that bought the A318, probably weren't going to buy the 717 anyway. Thus, the only order the A318 really stole was Frontier's, who were widely expected to go 737NG. Even this order I would argue wasn't really due to the A318, but to Boeing's lackluster response to Frontier's RFP.
777ER,
No, only ANA's and ANZ's 7E7 orders have been firmed up. First Choice (6), Blue Panorama (4), Primaris (20) and Vietnam (4) all have to be firmed.
Areopagus From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1357 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6749 times:
Airbus launched the A318, which required more development work than most 'simple-change' derivative models
That's because they added new technologies, like laser welding to replace riveting. But that technology then gets folded into the rest of the A320 line, so the expense wasn't wasted.
Scorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 4934 posts, RR: 46 Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6708 times:
This week's Flight International also reports that Leahy has said an unannounced Asian customer has recently signed an MoU for 5 A380s. He said he hoped to announce the customer in the next few months.
PANAM_DC10 From Australia, joined Aug 2000, 3998 posts, RR: 92 Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6203 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW COMMUNITY MANAGER
Teahan
Will be interesting to see how many of these will be confirmed in December (aren’t the manufacturers always keen to clean up their order books) or if many will get pushed into 2005.
I think we'll see a bit of both. Shareholder demands usually ensure that once a fleet decision is made the news is made public and then all the final details delay official signing. Also believe that Airbus probably did a little better than they expected so they may hold some over.
The 2 orders I like are LH for 7 346. A good follow on order for the 346 and TACA's 32X series and the 5 A321's in there. I too am not sure that we'll see a new order "booked" for the 8 A319 as I believe they are coming from an existing CASC order, maybe a conversion of some CASC 320 to 319 though?
Scorpio
This week's Flight International also reports that Leahy has said an unannounced Asian customer has recently signed an MoU for 5 A380s. He said he hoped to announce the customer in the next few months
A Chinese carrier is believed to be for this with Air China, China Eastern and China Southern among those considered the most likely. I think there was a recent post about this that may provide a bit more on the MoU.
PlaneSmart From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 739 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5975 times:
Airbus are definitely saving orders for 2005, in particular repeat orders for A32.
Partly to keep for 2005 figures, and partly to reduce 'trade war' talk & pressure.
Some orders may be announced just before Xmas, when politicians are on holiday.
Na From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9710 posts, RR: 10 Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5449 times:
LHs A340-600 order is already the cover story of the current in-house newspaper. Its written there its for planned growth as well as for replacement of existing airplanes in the fleet (that leaves us to guess whether the aircraft to be replaced are A340-300s or early 744s -my guess the first A340-300s will have to go, rumours have it Air Namibia will get 2).
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4115 posts, RR: 39 Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5419 times:
@ NA: Guess that those A340-600s will replaced the leased A340-300s (2 AFAIK) with the remaining 5 used for expansation (with the usual A346 replaces A343 which opens new route). I doubt that any B744 replacement is near, LH needs this capacity at the moment.
25 Na: Flying-Tiger, I forgot about these two. Yes, I´m absolutely with you, thats the most likely choice. B744s won´t go, hardly thinkable that any will l
26 BuyantUkhaa: Pardon my ignorance, but where's the massive Emirates A380 order in these figures? Was that already signed in 2003? Or does it still have to be signed
28 HlywdCatft: Wasn't the Emirates A380 order made back when the plane was still called the A3XX like back in 2000-01?
29 Teahan: Updated to include today's Air Hong Kong Deal: (Gross) Confirmed Orders this year: Undisclosed Customers 2 A319 (2 orders) and 1 A321 Qatar Airways 1
30 Scorpio: BTW, I see no mention of the selection of the A32X by CSA, or will those all be leases?
31 Teahan: You make a good point about those 12 CSA A32S. Firm Orders: 230 see ^^ New unconfirmed Orders: Etihad Airways 4 A380-800, 4 A340-500, 4 A340-600 and 1
32 Sjoerd: I 'll try to make Boeing's list : (Please complete) Confirmed orders (as on Boeing's website) : 213 Confirmed this week (not on Boeing's list yet) SIA
33 Teahan: @Sjoerd: Can't you start your own topic. General thought was that Etihad's 5 plane 777-300ER order had already been included in as 'undisclosed' in th
34 PANAM_DC10: Sjoerd GOL 43 B737 (there are 17 orders on the list already ?) The original order was 43 which was 15 firm and 28 purchase rights. 2 more were later o
35 Hamlet69: "Vietnam's 7E7 commitment was never publicly announced so I would not include it." It was by the airline, just not by Boeing. Similar situation to the
36 PANAM_DC10: What about the A320 Series order by Virgin America or are they to be leased and already ordered by a Lessor? Regards
37 Teahan: @PANAM_DC10: Good point regarding the Virgin America A320. 11 A319 and 7 A320, in addition to 15 leased A320 from GECAS. Any others you can think of?
38 Hamlet69: Teahan, "When/where did Vietnam Airlines actually announce it?" I'm surprised at you. Following as close as you do the Airbus press, you missed it whe
39 AAplatnumflier: Does anybody have any info on Boeing??
40 Aither: It does not include A400M orders. Look twice at the spreadsheet.
41 Hamlet69: "It does not include A400M orders. Look twice at the spreadsheet." I never said it did. Nor does Boeing's include any C-17's. However, when a governme
42 Teahan: @Hamlet69: I never said it did. Nor does Boeing's include any C-17's. However, when a government or military buys a aircraft based on a civilian platf
43 Teahan: Another one for the seemingly serious rumour list, Air Deccan for up to 30 A320. Firm Orders: 240 ^^ Unconfirmed Orders: 237 ^^ Seemingly serious rumo
44 Sjoerd: Lufthansa signed it's contract for 7 A346s today and Australia's AF ordered 5 A332 tankers. This makes : Firm Orders : 252 Unconfirmed : 230 Rumours :
45 Teahan: Sjoerd: I personally won't include the Australian tankers since I don't believe military contracts are conductive to a fair comparsion. My total there
46 Scbriml: I personally won't include the Australian tankers since I don't believe military contracts are conductive to a fair comparsion. My total therefore sta
47 Sjoerd: VS order is firm now : total firm : 260
48 Teahan: @Scbriml: I still doubt these tankers will be included but I guess we'll see next monthg. @Sjoerd: Where did you find that out re. Virgin? Can't find
49 Scbriml: Where did you find that out re. Virgin? Can't find it on any of the usual sources. It's a news item on the right-hand side of Virgin's home page: http
50 Scbriml: The Air Deccan deal is firm now: http://www.airbus.com/dynamic/media/press_releases.asp#1649
51 Teahan: For some updating: (Gross) Firm Orders this year: Undisclosed Customers 2 A319 (2 orders) and 1 A321 Qatar Airways 1 A319 and 3 A330-300 Emirates 2 A3
52 PANAM_DC10: Teahan Airbus just confirmed Air Europa for 10 A35O I am pleased that they chose 10 A350s after evaluating the 7E7,'' John Leahy, Airbus's sales chief
53 Teahan: Thanks PANAM_DC10. So time to do another update which brings the total to 514. (Gross) Firm Orders this year: Undisclosed Customers 2 A319 (2 orders)
54 Scbriml: @teahan, you're still showing Air Deccan as unconfirmed. See reply #50.
55 Teahan: Scbriml: When I say unconfirmed, I mean that only a MOU/LOI has been signed which is presently the case for Air Deccan. It becomes firm when it a firm
56 Sjoerd: Yeah I might have been wrong about the VS A346, I just figured that Virgin wouldn't leave the same announcement on it's website for 4 months !
57 PANAM_DC10: Teahan Another one! Al Jazeera Airways of Kuwait has confirmed an order for 4 A320 today. According to their press release it's a direct order from Ai
58 Anxebla: Airbus is doing "homework" very well. No doubt! And the A-380 coming soon... that's a real incentive to see Boeing developing the 747ADV's and other p
59 Scbriml: Jazeera Airways order is now on Airbus' website - http://www.airbus.com/dynamic/media/press_releases.asp#1651
61 Teahan: @United Airline: What are you asking? PANAM_DC10/Scbriml: Thanks. *** (Gross) Firm Orders this year: Undisclosed Customers 2 A319 (2 orders) and 1 A32
62 IVO: Teahan, Air Deccan's order is confurmed !! http://www.airbus.com/dynamic/media/press_releases.asp#1649 Ivo
63 Teahan: @IVO: It is still only a LOI/MOU. Jeremiah
64 United Airline: I mean........ which aircraft manufacturer is leading in terms of the no of orders? A or B?
65 Teahan: In terms of firm orders, Airbus is leading. 252 to 237. On the unconfirmed orders front, Airbus is leading by an even wider margin (267 to 82) Jeremia
66 Sjoerd: The TACA order is firm now. This gives : Confirmed : 266 Unconfirmed : 253
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